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GM Otomon

Ashes & Dust wtf??!

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GM Otomon    0

So I been going through every issue of the series, including cameos as I mentioned on the first thread I made on this forum, the continuity can be a bit messy but I can understand it can be hard to keep up so I forgave a lot...I am mostly loving the series so far,

 

Then I got to Ashes and Dust and that really messed me over

 

 

 

 

*SPOILERS!!*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

wtf happened? Not only did John die but then they didnt even bother explaining how he came back to life, he is now apparently gay with some guy he screwed over almost 30 years ago? Makes absolutely no sense at all, I hope that writer lost his job for almost ruining one of the best comics of all time. I tried looking for an explanation for how John came back to life, even read some threads on here, but its mostly people reviewing the comic. So did I miss something was it ever explained how he lived?

 

Luckily I am up to #202 and I am loving it, but this is a mayor plothole, its like someone made a hole in my brain.

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Christian    722

It was a horrible story. John's dying was just part of his con. It was supposed to be like a magic trick....we, in the audience, weren't meant to know the secrets. He didn't actually die.

 

As far as Azzarello, he's a very hit or miss writer. He's a big name in the comic book business. He basically took his time writing HB to parlay it in to an audition to get the job of writing the Batman comic book. His John is meant to be a stand-in for the Joker, while the Manor character is meant to be a stand-in for Bruce Wayne. Azzarello's time on the book actually saw an increase in sales over what HB's sales were during the Paul Jenkins and Warren Ellis runs, or over what came after Azzarello. So, in the respect, I'm sure Vertigo was totally happy with Azzarello's work, even though his run ended as total stupidity. Plus, Azzarello sort of took over writing HB as a favour for Vertigo, as when Ellis left the book suddenly, over his anger at Vertigo's editorial policy, Vertigo was left without a writer for the comic. Azzarello stepped in at the last minute and took over the book.

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dogpoet    425

Azzarello's time on the book actually saw an increase in sales over what HB's sales were during the Paul Jenkins and Warren Ellis runs, or over what came after Azzarello.

The best run of Hellblazer since Delano, you mean?

"No fucker's buying this. Let's have Denise Mina write something really shit instead. That's what Hellblazer readers want..."

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Christian    722

Azzarello's was the best run since Delano?

The best run since Delano was Paul Jenkins, which saw the lowest sales on the book, until the very end when Vertigo pulled the plug. Fans obviously wanted crap, as the sales charts showed. Vertigo tried their best, but couldn't replicate the awful of Azzarello (lord knows, Milligan tried, but after the very good first story-arc he wrote, the fans just were not giving him a chance!), and fans revolted. I think Vertigo needed to go with Chuck Austen on the book, if they wanted to save it.

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dogpoet    425

Carey's run, which followed Azzarello ("..or over what came after Azzarello...") was the best run of Hellblazer since Delano.

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Christian    722

Oh, well, no, it still wasn't.

"What came after Azzarello" was every other run on HB. All of their sales were lower than HB under Azzarello.

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JasonT    431

It feels right to me that people are still having this reaction to 'Ashes And Dust...' 14 years later. :biggrin:

 

Welcome aboard, GM.

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JohnMcMahon    560
he is now apparently gay

 

He always liked the odd bit of cock.

 

Christian's post sums things up nicely, Azzarello wanted to write about the Joker & Batman kissing so he did. Said it elsewhere recently but I'd like to sit down and read through his run again to see if it sits any better with me now, there's definitely some good stuff in there - John in prison, bits of Freezes Over but also there's the town that sustains itself by streaming porn....!

 

Disappointing ending aside, Azzarello's 100 Bullets is well worth checking out.

 

It feels right to me that people are still having this reaction to 'Ashes And Dust...' 14 years later. :biggrin:

 

The subject alone gave me a grin, yes!

 

Also, 14 years ? What in the fuck ?!?

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metanoia    69

I've just re-read the first half of Azzarellos run in the newly released trade. It wasn't half as bad as I remember it, I'm guessing from the comments here it's the second half of the run that's worse.

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dogpoet    425

That's the cologne he'd gone to New York to launch in the series before the current one, Lou. You didn't think he was paying for a flat in a city that expensive just by charging for the occasional exorcism, did you?

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Lou K    1,046

HAHAHA

 

It was my favorite thread on the old DC Message boards after this issue came out. Lot of unhappy campers in that one :laugh:

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I'm not as down on Azzarello's run as most (I'd still rather read his run than what Mina did), but ye gods, "Ashes and Dust" was terrible. It really seemed like Azz was just cackling into his word processor as he tried to get as much nonsense into that story as he could.

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Dave    265

Am i the only person in the world who liked Denise Mina's short run on the book? In my opinion, she was let down by a lack of an editor who could have helped her refine the work, but i felt it was pretty good for a first timer. And i really like the schottenfreude ending. Greg Lauren's covers are fucking terrible though.

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dogpoet    425

Am i the only person in the world who liked Denise Mina's short run on the book?

Of course not, but you could be the only person on this site who does...

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Christian    722

I really liked her run at the beginning, when it was just a quiet story about John trying to deal with the fact that he had given up magic....but, it went way downhill pretty quickly. That ending was one of the worst in HB history, perhaps only topped by "Ashes and Dust"! Oh, and her one-off issue in the middle of her too-long story-arc was one of the very worst issues of HB of all time.

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dogpoet    425

"If this fucking cabbie doesn't shut his trap, I'll tell him exactly why that fifth-fath on his mirror doesn't work..."?

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The Azarello run was memorable because of how cringe worthy it was--the biggest put off was the dog thing,the butchering kids thing ,john's characterization and the sheer amount of Narm of it all--plus the art in the prison run made me ask "why the fuck am I reading this?"

 

so in light of this...why are we focusing on "the sweet musk of his balls"...hardly relevant

 

I think it could be re-written and done well-- saying this because I just started 100 bullets and it's definitely my cup of tea...for now

 

also,john was always a cock-sucker,but the mostly heterosexually male readership casually phased it out ..."no-homo" before no-homo was a thing.I mean c'mon het guys,are you really gonna admit to reading about a queer dude?

 

as for john coming back to life after death...?

 

I guess it did it's job

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dogpoet    425

I always liked Richard Corben's art, myself. In fact, whatever you can say against Azzarrello's ball-muskin', dawg-fookin', Batman-mockin', Fed-teasin', character-missin' run, the art was never a problem. Corben and Frusin when he was still on top of his game? Yes, please...

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Lou K    1,046

 

so in light of this...why are we focusing on "the sweet musk of his balls"...hardly relevant

 

 

It's an old joke from the DC forum days. Guess you kinda had to be there.

 

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Christian    722

John was certainly not always gay, as far as comic continuity....to be technical, he was described as bisexual, not gay. There was absolutely no proof from the Alan Moore or Jamie Delano or Garth Ennis runs that John was anything other than hetero. It wasn't until a fill-in issue by John Smith during the Ennis days that it was revealed that John was bi. Then, it was rarely ever mentioned again after that one issue. During the Delano run, John had an openly gay friend (Ray Monde), but there was never a hint that John had any sexual feelings towards Monde. Of course, he might not have been John's type.

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