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Has NBC ruined 'Constantine' by straightwashing its protagonist?


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Poll: Has NBC ruined 'Constantine' by straightwashing its protagonist? (17 member(s) have cast votes)

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#1 JohnMcMahon

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:46 PM

On occasion, sure, but not when in TV Land -

In addition to being a demon fighter, the John Constantine of the comic book series is bisexual. That aspect of the character’s identity, according to executive producer Daniel Cerone, has been jettisoned.

“In those comic books, John Constantine aged in real time,” Cerone said (via EW). “Within this tome of three decades [of comics] there might have been one or two issues where he’s seen getting out of bed with a man. So [maybe] 20 years from now? But there are no immediate plans.”

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#2 James

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:59 PM

*tumblr EXPLODES*

#3 Demon Chas08

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:36 PM

The gays and gals at ONTD are fueming with rage over the statement
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#4 A. Heathen

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:57 PM

Poor choice of thread title, Mr McMahon, defining a sexuality by a sexual characteristic.

Also check this (especially the URL)
http://insidetv.ew.c...isexual-smoking
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#5 Lou K

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 05:00 PM

Sweet musk of his balls WTF
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#6 slinker

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 06:33 PM

View PostJames, on 14 July 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

*tumblr EXPLODES*
that's not even a slight exaggeration. i put tumblr on my girlfriend's pc while i surf here on my laptop. we have them on either side of the bed. we're so multimedia! but there are only 2 topics about Constantine on tumblr - yay zed, and boo straight John.

Other than Stanley, who else did John go gay for? I've read all 300 issues and I remember him making a statement about an occasional boy in his bed, but I don't recall anyone besides Stanley. Who did I miss?
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#7 Christian

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:34 PM

I don't remember any one being show, otherwise, either. I just remember a few references to John's experiences with men, starting with the John Smith issue. Even those references were rare.

It's not that surprising. I wouldn't expect this show to be showing hot and heavy male on male action.
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#8 slinker

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:41 PM

i got to tumblr and the first post i found was this one (written by our mutual friend) -

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Some Levity About Constantine’s Shag Preferences, Please


Look, in all honesty, John Constantine's sexuality is not an issue for me. Just like my friends, I don't care who he fucks, as long as it's mutual. In all 300 issues, John only ever was shown being sexual with one guy - Stanley Manor. And that was part of a long con to get revenge on Manor. There is one other issue in which John makes a remark about people in his bed—“girls and the occasional bloke.” And that’s it as far as John’s bisexuality. See, many people who have not read the book are up in arms because they heard John was bisexual, not because they read it for themselves. But claiming it’s canon?

Birds John has shagged:
Zed, Emma, Marj, Kit, Angie, a prostitute, Phoebe, Epiphany (I’ve probably missed a few but there we are).

Blokes John’s shagged:
Stanley Manor, and apparently one or more based on a single comment once.

So, you see, that’s hardly canon.

Finally, I will add this: in my formative years when I first became sexually active, all I was was horny. In between the first few girls I messed around with, there were a few encounters with boys my age going through the same thing. That’s way more common than you’d think. In fact, the estimate is that 67% of all straight men have had one or more homosexual encounters. But that doesn’t make them bisexual, it makes them “try-sexual” meaning at that age, they’d try anything sexual. And I’m in that category myself. I’ve been with boys as a teen, none as an adult. I married a woman with whom I enjoy having lots of sex and I don’t fantasize about boys or desire to be with one.

I have no problem with homosexuality and I’m proud of my many gay and bi-  friends and consider them to be among the bravest people I’ve ever known and I love them dearly.

But I don’t care who they fuck. Same with John. See, it’s nobody’s business who fucks whom as long as it’s consensual. John wouldn’t give a toss who I’m fucking either. And that’s as it should be. If they had made him bisexual, I’d feel the exact same way. But understand this—a show needs positive ratings or it will be canceled. Sure, it would have been braver to make John bi, but the show would not last, and all of you know this. Middle America gets turned off by gay characters and they watch the most TV. I happen to have grown up in a city with the largest gay population per capita, and it isn’t San Francisco. It’s close to Middle America—has “America’s Team”—but I’m getting off point. Ratings are what keeps a show on TV, not controversy. And ultimately, John’s sexuality never played a big part of HELLBLAZER at all. In maybe less than 10 issues out of 300. That’s 1/3 of 1% (though I suck at maths).

I know this might seem like a defeat to those who feel invested in the portrayal of a fictional character’s sexuality. But it isn’t a defeat at all— because for everything he is or represents, he is just a fictional character. A collective figment of our imaginations. A cool one, but a figment nonetheless. And he’s cool no matter whom he shags, bird or bloke.

Cheers!

PS: wasn’t Will & Grace on NBC? I don’t think NBC is homophobic.

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#9 seventhcircle

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:53 PM

You remember the time he rolled swampies parts together and sucked on them. yeah it kinda was a fag and the other time a blunt, but pleeeeeeease get the reference. \irony

having some eperiments in the past and playing someone with sex, doesn't make you bisexual in my book. One makes you open minded at best and the other one makes you an ass at worst. To use this behavior as a role-model thing for bisexuality is actually hurting their cause more, than it helps imho.
Now my assy conservative take on bisexuality: i would only put you in the actual category if you have fallen for someone from each gender at one time. I mean that is at least why i am sure to not be gay, i never felt even remotely for a guy what i felt for the one or two girls that actually swept me away. So the point I want to make is that by that 'definition' john is clearly not bisexual at all.

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#10 slinker

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 08:10 PM

Right. maybe not love, but attraction, for sure. Prisons are an interesting aspect of sexuality.

By the way, he is getting skewered by the bi-tumblr teens for posting that. he made another post about getting lots of fuck offs and invited them to debate him intelligently, and no takers so far.
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#11 Guest_Nick Neko_*

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 08:31 PM

I think it takes quite a commitment for one man to have sex with another man. I'd say it could make a person identify as bi-sexual, yeah.
I'm a heterosexual male. I have no sexual feelings for other men. I could never have sex with a man, ever.
I think sometimes, to be controversial here on my part, that people make excuses for having sexual feelings for the same sex by claiming they're just curious or they just experimented, rather than admitting to being bi, even if they have a preference for the opposite gender.
I don't feel that bi-sexuality is that rare in humans, not like homosexuality. I just think that societally or due to linguistics, most people have a problem admitting to the prevalence of bi-sexuality.

#12 slinker

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 11:24 PM

Of course it isn't rare and there's nothing wrong with it. But what is sex with another man? Is it cornholing? What about jacking a dude off? Is that sex with a man? I think there are lines you cross that point to sexuality, but where are those lines? I sure as hell don't know. I don't care either because what you do with someone else sexually is between the two of you. Not my business.

If you're responding to the quote I posted, I'm not speaking for him, but I understand that he doesn't care about John's sexuality because I don't either. it's not what makes him John Constantine.

And I have this to add. The issue in which John "claims" to be bisexual was written by a guy who only wrote 1 issue for Hellblazer. Counting to 10 was written by John Smith who never wrote another thing for Hellblazer and yet in his one story, he gets to proclaim John as bisexual. Please understand I'm not arguing that he isn't, I'm stating for the record that I find it odd that a one off writer can add such a dimension to a character that was not addressed by any other writer, except Azz who obviously used it as part of a long con. I don't know. I think it's funny.
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#13 Gwilym

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 01:05 AM

You'd think the Stanley Manor arc would be more of a sticking point for people; it was used purely for shock value, and as a weapon against Stanley, the readers (Azzarello is probably the least socially progressive writer in history and was obviously playing for an 'eww' reaction, similar to the dog), and Batman. If we're treating the character as bi PR, that's about one of the most negative portrayals of supposed bisexuality possible. And yet it really is the sole bit of solid visual evidence that led to the shorthand "John is bisexual." These outraged folk have hearts in the right place, for an awful reason.

Well, in the Horrorist he says "Twenty quid if you suck me dick" after someone calls him a queer. Then he goes home with a woman.

Personally, I still read him as bi anyway, but that's my business.
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#14 slinker

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 01:36 AM

your first paragraph, totally true. i never read John as bi because i didn't read the laundromat issue until relatively recently, and i considered John's behavior with Manor as part of his revenge plot, not that John had feelings for or was attracted to him. it would have lessened the revenge, to me. and john's revenge was the only good part of the story. It blows my mind that bisexuals gravitate to such a shitty story portraying them negatively and think that's really how John is. And "yay, one of us is in a comic!"

No, bisexuals, you are really much better people in real life than Stanley and John both represent in that story, I vouchsafe.
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#15 Guest_Nick Neko_*

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 02:10 AM

In real life, it might be better to just let people define themselves sexually, rather than argue whether someone can check the proper boxes to be considered truly as a, bi, homo, hetero, or multi sexual.
How that applies to John, I'm not sure. Would he define as bi? Does he really just like dogs, but goes with the women instead, because the dogs he meets usually have more standards?

I agree with what's being said about the Azzarello story. It is a negative portrayal. I remember that discussion on this site before. It does follow the Smith story, where it is discussed positively.
As far as if a non-regular writer can add those depths to a character, well, the story is canon, and that's what matters.
I don't remember if any other writers agreed with Smith or not.

#16 seventhcircle

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:30 AM

View PostNick Neko, on 15 July 2014 - 02:10 AM, said:

In real life, it might be better to just let people define themselves sexually, rather than argue whether someone can check the proper boxes to be considered truly as a, bi, homo, hetero, or multi sexual.
ok I admit it, such attempt to label things was harsh by me and it was not at all appropriate to tell anyone how to label themselves. I think I can also understand the turmoil by the guys and girls that read john as bisexual. I remember that it bothered me when Cpt. Jack Harkness went from an omnisexual to an apparently pure gay display. But I can only recommend whatching some Interviews (about an hour or so long) from GRR Martin whom has been a screenwriter and gives some inside on that. What I took from it (and it was basically what i was suspecting all along), is that you have to fight for everything the creative team came up with, like EVERYTHING and that you have to pick your battles on what you want to preserve to be on the screen. Such battles must be choosen with care, or the guys will be worn out by the end of the year. John and his whole universe, essentially everything in hellblazer is something i imagine you'ld have to put a real fight up to be on the screen, especially with nbc. i don't blame goyer for not trying to pick the fight with nbc about john sometimes shagging a man. You must consider the source material (and yes apparently somewhere john went after men), the audience (from whom a lot will be alienated by hellblazer anyway) that is i suppose rather conservative when it comes to matters of sexuality and last but not least the script, which i believe is hard to incorporate the bisexual part into anyway. Having john just stating that he some time or another shagged a bloke is not how television works, you know it, i know it, everyone knows it, nbc would propably be like: so he is bisexual, what are we doing with that now -> this can only end badly. So what do these guys want? A man on man sex scene on nbc? not going to happen, like never. A relationship with a man? Based on what source material? And i can think not of any way they could come up with a plot where that actually plays a certain role, without the rest of the fandom going 'sweet musk of his balls wtf'.

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#17 electricinca

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 01:26 PM

I don't think his bisexuality is a defining characteristic, so I won't be bothered if it is or isn't a part of the show. I don't know how much sex or talk of sex there's going to be in the show, but it would be a shame to not even acknowledge it in passing.

But as we've seen on this forum in the past there are bisexual and homosexual people that identify with John in some respects and this aspect of his character is particular important to them so the outcry doesn't surprise me in the least.
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#18 JohnMcMahon

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 02:37 PM

The internet is still fuming, this question showed up as a headline for a story on some site via my Twitter feed.
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#19 Lou K

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 02:38 PM

View Postelectricinca, on 15 July 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

I don't think his bisexuality is a defining characteristic, so I won't be bothered if it is or isn't a part of the show.

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#20 James

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 05:05 PM

Not arsed, but it'd be a nice surprise if the TV version gayed it up a bit.




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