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Hoping Rebirth John won't be a fairy


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#1 Ranja

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 07:51 PM

I'm really hoping that the Rebirth John Constantine will be getting away from the Fairy persona that they have been forcing on us in the recent incarnation. Now, I'm well aware that this idea will infuriate lots of the left-leaning herd-mentality comic book readers (I've never understood why so many fall in that category, but John hasn't simply been portrayed as gay in the recent issues. He's been portrayed as a feminine fairy. His sheepish grins at his obviously-top boyfriend. His adorably cuddly comments that are made in reference to him. It's ridiculous and very non-Constantine. If the clannish need for diversity insists that he be gay, then at least make him the punk-rock style gay that we'd be expecting from a persona like his. John would never be a Bottom.

#2 Christian

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 11:55 PM

It's funny that you use "herd mentality" to refer to some comic book readers, when your own herd mentality is forcing you to see the world through a heterosexual majority view-point. Does the idea of someone sticking their big, heaving cock up another man's luscious derriere offend you? Does it disturb you, the thought of cum dripping off of a man's toned ass cheeks? Well, get over it!
Also, John was never portrayed as a bottom. He was still very much a dominant personality.
It's routinely agreed by us mostly Left-leaning sheeple on this Forum that the new series was a failure. John's sexuality had very little do with that massive failing, as the series could have worked, had other little concepts that make up a story, like interesting plotting and better characterization been used.
This whole duality of "the only good Hellblazer must be a bisexual" versus "Hellblazer can never be good unless he only fucks women" mentality wears thin.
I'm sure you are just a troll, trying to get a rise out of all us Left-leaning conformists, who can only accept something that is different from the status quo, socially enforced concept of the "norm".
Personally, I hope that John will be a furry after the Rebirth.
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#3 TheDevilYouKnow

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 03:18 AM

I mean, it was mentioned every once in a while in the original Hellblazer series that John is bi , but it wasn't often rubbed directly into your fucking face like this recent series apparently did ( haven't gotten around to reading it yet )
thanks to john constantine , i'll now wear trench coats, smoke and drink constantly, talk in a british accent, get a sting haircut, fuck lots and lots of people, start a punk band, piss off people on a daily basis for shits and giggles, and literally piss on vampires and trick demons into curing my cancer.

like a BOSS.

#4 Gwilym

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 02:25 PM

Are we meant to respond? This seems less a conversation starter than a pronouncement
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#5 Gwilym

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 02:29 PM

I'll just blink politely in the meantime
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#6 Christian

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 05:20 PM

It was mentioned once in the original Hellblazer series. This was not the original HB series, it was an alternate version. Really, the authors were able to do what they wanted with the character, since it was not in the original continuity.
I wouldn't say it was rubbed in our faces, anymore than I would say that "John is in a relationship" was rubbed in our faces by Garth Ennis with Kit.
The authors chose to revolve most of the ongoing plot of the series around the fact that John was interested in a guy named Oliver The consequences of Oliver getting involved with John became the reason for the series. The series wasn't good, but it wasn't due to John being bisexual. Shoddy, uninteresting plotting and writing that was less than engaging were two major faults. John's characterization was also poorly done. Remove the sexuality, and the series still wasn't going to work.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
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#7 Ranja

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 06:39 PM

Wow, Christian! That will teach me for having an opinion that differs from yours!

I like how it is permitted to dislike everything about the new series except for the fact that the writer turned John into a sheepishly-smiling sub. How dare I dislike that part!!!!! Cum dripping down asscheeks!!!! Luscious dick up ass!!!! Did it make you hard when you wrote that? It seems to me like you're much more fixated on homosexuality in general than I am on the characterization of John's bending over for a big bear.

And I love that I'm a troll because I'm saying something that you disagree with. But thank you for presenting us all with a great depiction of the angry closed-minded comic book nerd.

#8 Christian

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 06:54 PM

Oh yeah.....terms like "herd mentality" and "fairy" certainly aren't aggressive terms. Those are all perfectly rational ways to present your opinion, in a non-argumentative way, right?
You join this Forum and decide to act like someone with a chip on their shoulder, instead of acting politely.
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion of John Constantine. You are entitled to not liking that the character is presented in a certain way. However, your critique boiled down to one point...."Gee, I just don't like this dude because he's, like, gay!". That's a really immature attitude, which I'd expect from a high school student. You should really find ways to present yourself where you don't come across as an asshole. Then, you'll receive a more nuanced response to your opinions.

Usually a public forum includes room for debate. Presenting your opinion does not make you exempt from others who disagree with your opinion, even if you decide to start a topic which is a statement rather than an opening for question and thought. That's the wonder of free speech! You can come here and say your views about "queers" and then someone else can come along and give their opinion, which is that you're presenting yourself like a fool, while thinking you are so "cool".

Sorry, your Freudian skills are really lacking as well. I am heterosexual. I could care less what is the sexuality of anyone. It's your close-minded view of the world which I am challenging. Just because I like women doesn't mean that I see a problem with anyone else liking anything else....which runs the gamut from same sex, every sex, animals, or the person's own relatives. Plurality and difference are not anything that I find a threat to my own individuality.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
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#9 Ranja

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 07:07 PM

My God, Christian. You really do have a mind as narrow as anus, don't you?

Read my comment again and then tell me that my issue was that he was gay. I actually made it quite clear that it was the type of gay he was. But you probably didn't even hear that in your mind, did you? You just saw "Criticism of a homosexual character portrayal" and then "FURY!!!!!!" There's nothing wrong with being argumentative, Christian. But don't make your argument sound like simplistic nonsense that could be churned out by a machine. I mean, jesus, when I wrote that comment I knew that somebody was going to regurgitate some bullshit that they have been trained to regurgitate.

Okay . . . but enough of that. Let's try rising above what seems to be your normal type of discussion. Let me ask you this - - - could I be unhappy if Luke Cage were portrayed as a Gangsta Nigga? Can I dislike Zatanna if she were portrayed as a nagging bitch? Would having these opinions make me racist or misogynistic? I don't think so. And so why are you furious that I would be unhappy that John is being portrayed as a submissive fairy?

But I'm wasting my time, aren't i? Onward, Christian Soldier!

#10 Demon Chas08

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 01:49 AM

View PostChristian, on 24 June 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

It was mentioned once in the original Hellblazer series. This was not the original HB series, it was an alternate version. Really, the authors were able to do what they wanted with the character, since it was not in the original continuity.
I wouldn't say it was rubbed in our faces, anymore than I would say that "John is in a relationship" was rubbed in our faces by Garth Ennis with Kit.
The authors chose to revolve most of the ongoing plot of the series around the fact that John was interested in a guy named Oliver The consequences of Oliver getting involved with John became the reason for the series. The series wasn't good, but it wasn't due to John being bisexual. Shoddy, uninteresting plotting and writing that was less than engaging were two major faults. John's characterization was also poorly done. Remove the sexuality, and the series still wasn't going to work.

This
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#11 Gwilym

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 06:08 AM

If you've ever wondered whether or not this forum is on the internet, this thread provides the clearest (and perhaps only) evidence so far
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#12 Ranja

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 07:39 PM

What does that mean, Gwilym? Because you get differing viewpoints and people like Christian who do their best to smash those viewpoints with personal attacks and insults?

#13 Gwilym

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 02:35 AM

Differing opinions are nothing new. I know you won't agree about that, since it goes against the hive-mind persecution theme you've for some reason decided to run with, but those differing opinions are the whole reason this message board works, and includes actual conversations.

I'm talking about the flecks of self-righteous spittle flying all over the place. Those are new.

I'm sure you've parsed some kind of of personal insult from my words already, so I'll just say it: you're being utterly vile. Some of my best friends are cringe-inducingly homophobic (I know you've denied this part, but stay tuned; there's a payoff coming), but few of them would be clueless enough to wander into a social gathering and twice use a gay slur (there it is) in their opening sentences before patting themselves on the back for how brave they were to do so. And if they genuinely wanted to start a discussion, they probably wouldn't make bizarre blanket statements about anyone who disagrees with them being some kind of brainwashed leftist something-or-other. That's how you start a fight, not a conversation.

Anyway, just to prove that I can do pedantic nitpickery if I absolutely have to: "the clannish need for diversity" is a nonsense term. It's a paradox, and not the good kind. You might as well refer to "pro-immigration xenophobia" or "fascist anarchy."

I'd rather you didn't, though.
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#14 Ranja

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 02:56 AM

You actually are right, Gwilym. In my opening sentences, I made comments about comic book readers that were uncalled for assumptions and predictions of what I would soon be encountering for bringing up an issue that nobody seems to want to discuss (not the gayness, but the outright fairyness). I suppose that was less than classy of me. I had come to this forum to put forth this idea because, in my circle, I'm the only person who knows John Constantine - and I was curious to see if anybody else felt that way. So yes, it may have been wrong of me to immediately insult the people who I predicted I'd meet but who I hadn't met yet.

BUT then Christian comes out and . . . . holy god . . . what a tremendous Comic Book Fan stereotype he was. Left-leaning, closed-minded and filled with self-righteous anger. So I can't feel THAT bad about making that prediction.

But on the topic that neither of you seem interested in (on account of the self-righteous anger) - there is nothing wrong with having disdain for one type of a social group. Hate rednecks? Laugh at nerdy Chinese guys? Misogynistic Muslims?  Fine. Those are annoying members of certain social groups. So why am I "homophobic" for not wanting one of my favorite characters to be portrayed as a fairy? Hell, there are gay people who dislike fairies. But your world isn't big enough to get that.

And I'd explain why the clannish need for diversity isn't a nonsense term, but there's no point. I met plenty of people like you back when I actually went to comic book stores. You're dicks and you're not people to have discussions with.

#15 Gwilym

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 03:34 AM

I just cried myself to sleep, so I wouldn't be able to respond anyhow
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#16 dogpoet

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 06:14 PM

Comics fans are left leaning?
Who the fuck buys Cerebrus, then?

#17 Christian

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 06:58 PM

Me, Dog! It was me all along!

I do think comic readers do tend to lean to the Left, however, it's probably something of a stereotype.
Comics do tend to attract more Left-Wing creators, moreso than other fields, I'd say (at least since the 1970s).

however, I do see that Conversion therapy comes up as the first choice when you do a Google search for "Straight to"...
Which may help explain this thread.
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#18 dogpoet

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 07:10 PM

Maybe.
:tongue:
I can think of plenty of right leaning (in fact, damn near the holocaust denyin', free market enshrinin', jew hatin', gay bashin' handout expectin' "libertarian" Neocon whore level of the current Republican party)* comics creators though. Apart from the half decent ones like Sim and Ditko, there's fucktards like Dixon and his closet case mate Smith as well, aren't there?

*(Showing my great age by referencing a Nirvana t shirt from before the guy used buckshot to clear his sinuses...)

#19 Speedblazer

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 02:04 AM

So basically Ranja's an asshole. Got it.

#20 lady_constantine

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 11:26 PM

okay---so 2 topics to cover
1)leftist politics and comic readers and 2)Johny constantine being queer/bottom
-keep in mind ,I am black,female,non-heterosexual and leaning left so i have a unique perspective
Comics and leftism-
-I think a lot of comic readers of this era wanna be leftist--but the level of sexism and racism that exists in the American comics indicate elsewise.I think maybe some are "left center" at heart as we know the core audience is straight white males that can actually afford to buy them.As such,people have grown up reading comics for straight white males,by straight white males,about straight white males[i am not in anyway slandering the majority of straight white males I know are on this board,but there is a certain power to this status].Thius while many people claim to be 'leftist' the blatant sexism [which has been thank good toned down since the New '10's] undercover racism [wally west being a black kid from questionable background--that was some bullshit--oh so now he black,he gotta have problems? Fandom liked to assume white Wally had issues,but damn--why confirm it with black Wally?Damn!And then had Barry play 'mighty whitey'NOPE] .

Anyway,the main audience have at time protested to race changes or adding characters of other races and are comfortable with white men as the main points and characters of their storylines and their white world--also the fact that the main heroes [looking at DCU ] like Batman and Superman-upper eschelon white people who only know other white people [for the most part,there are exceptions].Really beyond Amanda Waller and possibly Renee Montoya,and Damian Wayne [mixed] ,and Victor Stone--what important non-whites exist in DCU who are NOT c-listers on down?

Leftist? Nah...too comfortable with the status quo to be leftist.Left-center,thank you.

Marvel is another story though.

Marvel's racial/gender diversity blended much better.Examples like all them female Miss/captain marvesl [only one of said women bein white],Rhodey had always been the number one person in tony's life and is with the military ,not some thug or anything,Marvel even delves into racism more and have A and B-list characters who are females/different ethnicities .Emma Frost,often times defacto leader of The X-men,Storm,aka Ororo Monroe had been A-lister from back in the day black AND female.War Machine [B-lister],Sam Wilson [A-list,in fact he is captain america now and had always been not just steve's partner but HIS FRIEND.Yes he talks to sam wilson outta costume,steve sam and bucky like to hang sometimes--there was a time along time ago when some ol' dumb shit happened,but for the most part--it was cool --also see the Captain america sagas--black captain america and Patriot a descendant of his].

In the case of DC vs Marvel? DC Left-Center and Marvel actually leaning toward the leftism that is alleged [also,higher quotient of LGBT and specifically BISEXUAL characters than DCU last I checked ,especially dudes,definately more queer dudes---off the top of my headnon- het characters- most of the Young Avengers lineup ,and then we have Richter and Shatterstar Daken,Mystique,Spiderwoman and this is not naming all the 'maybe but not confirmed' characters and the Ultimate universe

so marvel likely truly leaning left

-Then we have Image and Indie comics that run the gammut of whatever they want ,definately leftist territory.

However,here's the kicker

Because it is more socially acceptable state side to lean left,alot of people "pretend" to be leftist when they are center or DL right-wingers.

Yup,I said it.

It's like how the KKK are so obssessed with hiding their identities and how sexist pigs tend to be internet thugs or live in mediums like COMICS and ACTION MOVIES where they think women don't tread.Same for certain industries.But your actions tell all and some comic fans are not leftist.
Also,it's a bit more socially aceptable to lean left here stateside--except trump supporters.

The thing is,alot of people don't wanna admit to being right wing or centered--so yes comic readers tend to claim to be leftist because it's a left scene--politics can go in trends.

=========================================================

Now "Queer Constantine"

-And constantine being queer and a bottom.Two things.1? not the first time he has been a bottom-i am more at least a thousand percent sure he was the bottom between him and nick necro [which i think that bothered people aLOT on a subliminal level.This was the first time john constantine was pretty much known to have genuinely been running with some dude and not running a long con].Also with the azarello thing,john may have been kicking manner's ass--but john visted an SM club and was letting people put their paws on him which essentially 'bottom' is more pasive in that culture.If a guy ties you up and slaps you and demands you give him the D--you are still his bottom.Because John is queer and into S&M his definition is different than what yours may be.

-Essentially John would likely be bottom/switch,likely switching by partners or he can adopt the life style of a good handful of bi-guys who would bang women but often/always bottom to men sexually which is surprisingly normal,like the ones who love women but love givin out BJ's.

This fear of John Constantine loving cock ,and being a bottom comes from descrimination against the D-takers in the gay community.Men who recieve are seen as 'lesser' than the givers,some of you nutbox closet cases even thinking it's not gay if you don't take the D,which is rediculous--a top would be more of a homo or just sexually ambiguous for reasons i'm not explaining now.

Amd do you know where the hatred of bottoms come from !

That's right kids,sexism!

Penetrative intercourse=feminine=weak.

Fans of conjob can't conceive that this masculine,badass,chain-smokin' ,half drunkard,badass ,mofo who got 'the bitches' was probably sucking the sausage in a bathroom stall somewhere at some point in his life,giving out and recieving handjobs and likely enjoys getting his back blown out ,while tied to a bedpost.That is just dis-servicing John Constantine ,slandering him for his sexuality ,being gay straight or otherwise and I do not support anyone who thinks in such a close minded manner.Big thumbs down for you Ranja. I have nothing personal at stake here,but you gotta take this L
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