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Ashes & Dust wtf??!


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#1 GM Otomon

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 04:59 PM

So I been going through every issue of the series, including cameos as I mentioned on the first thread I made on this forum, the continuity can be a bit messy but I can understand it can be hard to keep up so I forgave a lot...I am mostly loving the series so far,

Then I got to Ashes and Dust and that really messed me over




*SPOILERS!!*











wtf happened? Not only did John die but then they didnt even bother explaining how he came back to life, he is now apparently gay with some guy he screwed over almost 30 years ago? Makes absolutely no sense at all, I hope that writer lost his job for almost ruining one of the best comics of all time. I tried looking for an explanation for how John came back to life, even read some threads on here, but its mostly people reviewing the comic. So did I miss something was it ever explained how he lived?

Luckily I am up to #202 and I am loving it, but this is a mayor plothole, its like someone made a hole in my brain.

#2 Christian

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 06:13 PM

It was a horrible story. John's dying was just part of his con. It was supposed to be like a magic trick....we, in the audience, weren't meant to know the secrets. He didn't actually die.

As far as Azzarello, he's a very hit or miss writer. He's a big name in the comic book business. He basically took his time writing HB to parlay it in to an audition to get the job of writing the Batman comic book. His John is meant to be a stand-in for the Joker, while the Manor character is meant to be a stand-in for Bruce Wayne. Azzarello's time on the book actually saw an increase in sales over what HB's sales were during the Paul Jenkins and Warren Ellis runs, or over what came after Azzarello. So, in the respect, I'm sure Vertigo was totally happy with Azzarello's work, even though his run ended as total stupidity. Plus, Azzarello sort of took over writing HB as a favour for Vertigo, as when Ellis left the book suddenly, over his anger at Vertigo's editorial policy, Vertigo was left without a writer for the comic. Azzarello stepped in at the last minute and took over the book.
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#3 dogpoet

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 06:24 PM

View PostChristian, on 08 September 2016 - 06:13 PM, said:

Azzarello's time on the book actually saw an increase in sales over what HB's sales were during the Paul Jenkins and Warren Ellis runs, or over what came after Azzarello.
The best run of Hellblazer since Delano, you mean?
"No fucker's buying this. Let's have Denise Mina write something really shit instead. That's what Hellblazer readers want..."

#4 Christian

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 06:42 PM

Azzarello's was the best run since Delano?
The best run since Delano was Paul Jenkins, which saw the lowest sales on the book, until the very end when Vertigo pulled the plug. Fans obviously wanted crap, as the sales charts showed. Vertigo tried their best, but couldn't replicate the awful of Azzarello (lord knows, Milligan tried, but after the very good first story-arc he wrote, the fans just were not giving him a chance!), and fans revolted. I think Vertigo needed to go with Chuck Austen on the book, if they wanted to save it.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
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#5 dogpoet

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 07:08 PM

Carey's run, which followed Azzarello ("..or over what came after Azzarello...") was the best run of Hellblazer since Delano.

#6 Christian

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 07:15 PM

Oh, well, no, it still wasn't.
"What came after Azzarello" was every other run on HB. All of their sales were lower than HB under Azzarello.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#7 JasonT

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 09:35 PM

It feels right to me that people are still having this reaction to 'Ashes And Dust...' 14 years later. :biggrin:

Welcome aboard, GM.

#8 JohnMcMahon

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 08:09 AM

View PostGM Otomon, on 08 September 2016 - 04:59 PM, said:

he is now apparently gay

He always liked the odd bit of cock.

Christian's post sums things up nicely, Azzarello wanted to write about the Joker & Batman kissing so he did.  Said it elsewhere recently but I'd like to sit down and read through his run again to see if it sits any better with me now, there's definitely some good stuff in there - John in prison, bits of Freezes Over but also there's the town that sustains itself by streaming porn....!

Disappointing ending aside, Azzarello's 100 Bullets is well worth checking out.

View PostJasonT, on 08 September 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

It feels right to me that people are still having this reaction to 'Ashes And Dust...' 14 years later. :biggrin:

The subject alone gave me a grin, yes!

Also, 14 years ?  What in the fuck ?!?
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#9 seventhcircle

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 08:24 AM

View PostJohnMcMahon, on 09 September 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

also there's the town that sustains itself by streaming porn....

you mean the dog-shagging incident? that is supposed to be a good example of his run, really?

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#10 JohnMcMahon

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 08:26 AM

Nope, that's an example of the worst nonsensical excesses of his run!
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#11 seventhcircle

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 08:37 AM

oh. i blame it on my reading comprehension skills. (the but really changes the meaning)

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#12 metanoia

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 10:01 AM

I've just re-read the first half of Azzarellos run in the newly released trade.  It wasn't half as bad as I remember it,  I'm guessing from the comments here it's the second half of the run that's worse.

#13 Lou K

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 12:23 PM

Sweet musk of his balls WTF ?!?!?!
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#14 dogpoet

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 12:29 PM

That's the cologne he'd gone to New York to launch in the series before the current one, Lou. You didn't think he was paying for a flat in a city that expensive just by charging for the occasional exorcism, did you?

#15 Lou K

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 12:48 PM

HAHAHA

It was my favorite thread on the old DC Message boards after this issue came out. Lot of unhappy campers in that one  :laugh:
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#16 seventhcircle

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 12:56 PM

when you first mentioned it, i tried to find an archive or something of that thread, but there seems to be nothing left (but ashesanddustandyomama).

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Of cause you keep going on. We.. we all keep going on. If we stop laughing, than they have won.
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#17 Ixnay by Night

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 03:52 PM

I'm not as down on Azzarello's run as most (I'd still rather read his run than what Mina did), but ye gods, "Ashes and Dust" was terrible.  It really seemed like Azz was just cackling into his word processor as he tried to get as much nonsense into that story as he could.

#18 Dave

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 04:07 PM

Am i the only person in the world who liked Denise Mina's short run on the book? In my opinion, she was let down by a lack of an editor who could have helped her refine the work, but i felt it was pretty good for a first timer. And i really like the schottenfreude ending. Greg Lauren's covers are fucking terrible though.
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#19 dogpoet

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 04:22 PM

View PostDave, on 09 September 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

Am i the only person in the world who liked Denise Mina's short run on the book?
Of course not, but you could be the only person on this site who does...

#20 Christian

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 05:29 PM

I really liked her run at the beginning, when it was just a quiet story about John trying to deal with the fact that he had given up magic....but, it went way downhill pretty quickly. That ending was one of the worst in HB history, perhaps only topped by "Ashes and Dust"! Oh, and her one-off issue in the middle of her too-long story-arc was one of the very worst issues of HB of all time.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde




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