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This Is Where It Started (A comic called Hellblazer)


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#121 Demon Chas08

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 08:45 PM

View PostA. Heathen, on 29 June 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

As a non-smoker, I have absolutely no problem being a room full of smokers, even though it's much better without.
However, there is enough social engineering in mainstream TV for nefarious reasons, so well done them for doing it to avoid promoting smoking.

Why Goyer, Cerone or Geoff "They're Superfriends!" Johns thought shopping our boy to NBC was a good idea, we'll never know.
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#122 slinker

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 10:37 PM

what about the cigs, ashtray and lighter in trailer #2?
When you are a step ahead of everybody else, they call you a genius. When you are two steps ahead, they say you're crazy.

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#123 A. Heathen

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:31 PM

Also where it started
http://www.comicbook...rticle&id=54149

Some choice quotes from Hellblazer writers.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"But that's the whole point, it's supernatural, these things happen.
It's not supposed to be realistic in that sense."

#124 Christian

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:37 PM

Good article.

I liked how Milligan was the most hesitant about the TV show.
Read his comments about how the TV show will probably treat our John Constantine.
Welcome to our world, Milligan!

Also, when it listed all the social commentary tackled by the Hellblazer book, every example was from the Delano tenure.
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"Life is such a great disappointment."
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#125 James

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:57 AM

View Postslinker, on 29 June 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

what about the cigs, ashtray and lighter in trailer #2?

There's just a little glimpse of him stubbing out a cig at the start of a scene.

Though this thought just skittered across my brain: isn't that actually worse than making him an on-screen chain smoker? Makes smoking look like something that's easy to just pick up and put back down, and is largely consequence free. The comics made it look like a crippling addiction that was actively dangerous. Well... okay, for a while they did. Then it went back to looking kind of cool.

#126 slinker

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 02:30 AM

yes, that's a good point. the choice is either downplaying it to the disgust of most of the fans or glorifying it to the horror of everyone else, including rational people. either way, someone's sensibility will be tested, if not outright insulted.
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"If you can't say 'Fuck,' you can't say, 'Fuck the government.'" - Lenny Bruce

#127 James

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:48 AM

In the age of the internet someone's sensibility is ALWAYS being tested.

#128 seventhcircle

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:13 PM

View PostChristian, on 24 July 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

Seventh-Those elements of mythology you speak of were rarely used in HB though. It was mainly the Judeo-Christian mythos that were used in the book. Even the Trinity in Hell concept is just an inverse of the Holy Trinity of Christianity, and regardless if it had DCU elements, it's still a Judeo-Christian concept, since it's still Hell and it used beings who are considered demons (Azazel, Beelzebub, Satan).
The use of Nergal is based on the later Christianizing of Mesopotamian belief, rather than the Babylonian deity.
Australian mythology was only used for one story-arc, and that's considered a minor HB story (although I enjoyed it).
I only remember Aztec gods playing a role in the Mike Carey graphic novel.

That was just an example. I didn't mean that it had not heaven and hell and stuff as a basis. But HB was always open to alternative religions and mythology. Take the whole Fear Machine plot, or the camelot stuff with that annoying bush fairy. It is just that I hope that when they play the supernatural card (which they don't have to should'nt do all the time) I hope they will not solely focus on the judeo-christian thing. The world of mythological and magical themes is so much greater on our little planet called earth.

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Of cause you keep going on. We.. we all keep going on. If we stop laughing, than they have won.
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#129 Christian

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:36 PM

You want to see the Green Lantern Corps, don't you?

Other than the somewhat annoying neo-paganism elements of the Fear Machine, it's really only been Paul Jenkins who has explored other mythologies outside of the Judeo-Christian wiorldview, and that was pretty much all Celtic (and/or Arthurian, if you weeel).
I'm not saying that the TV show can't explore outside of Western religions and traditions, but that HB has mainly been a comic that uses Judeo-Christian and Hermetic beliefs as the back-drop to its own mythology.
I mean, I, personally, don't really want to see a Hellblazer spin-off turn in to something more comfortable in the Sandman.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#130 seventhcircle

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:08 PM

View PostChristian, on 24 July 2014 - 10:36 PM, said:

You want to see the Green Lantern Corps, don't you?

I don't understand, how did i give off that vibe?

View PostChristian, on 24 July 2014 - 10:36 PM, said:

I mean, I, personally, don't really want to see a Hellblazer spin-off turn in to something more comfortable in the Sandman.

We can agree on that, as much as I enjoyed sandman for that matter. The point I was trying to make, is that I hope for the show to not be afraid of exploring a little exotic stuff here and there (once a season or so).

Oh and HB also had vodoo stuff (which is not at all a judeo-christian thingy). So even if you take the aztec stuff away for being not in the monthly, I have twice as much (and more heavy) evidence as the "John is soooooo bi" peops ;)

And I liked the neo paganism stuff in fear machine!

Quote

Of cause you keep going on. We.. we all keep going on. If we stop laughing, than they have won.
[Alfonse. french-german Comedian, 17.11.15]

#131 Christian

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:41 PM

I was just kidding with you about the Green Lantern Corps line, because you said "greater than our little planet".

Oh, am I going to have to be that annoying pedantic guy, by saying Voodoo has some roots in Christianity, being a syncretism of traditional African religions with Catholicism during the days of slavery? heh

The Voodoo stuff will probably be used in the TV show, since Papa Midnite has already been cast.
I just hope they do some research. I get really tense when I hear pop culture is using Voodoo, since it's been used as such a racist motif for so long in popular culture.
Papa Midnite was sort of just a caricature in the comic too, even though I have all the respect in the world for Jamie Delano.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#132 Red

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:47 AM

View PostChristian, on 24 July 2014 - 10:36 PM, said:

You want to see the Green Lantern Corps, don't you?

Other than the somewhat annoying neo-paganism elements of the Fear Machine, it's really only been Paul Jenkins who has explored other mythologies outside of the Judeo-Christian wiorldview, and that was pretty much all Celtic (and/or Arthurian, if you weeel).
Well, Carey used elements from Indian mythology (Red Sepulchre), Celtic mythos (Red sepulchre), aboriginal myths (third worlds) and Aztec mythology (All his engines). Delano brought in Babylonian mythology in Pandemonium.
I'd agree that judeo-christian mythology has been the most prevalent, but there's been a lot more than that over the years.
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#133 James

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:31 AM

Oooooh, okay, I'm feeling a bit old-skool nerdy at the minute. Let's give this a go...

Delano era
African hunger 'demon' and voodoo (HB 1); Swamp Thing and all that non-Christian mythology (HB 9-10); ley lines (HB 14-22); pagan gods (HB annual 1); Babylonian god-turned-Hell demon (anything with Nergal); African horror spirit (The Horrorist 1-2); body-swapping magic (HB 32); fuck knows - some kind of crazy psychotic episode/parallel universe ('Sundays are Different', HB 33); weird shit in the human subconscious (HB 25-26); parallel universes (HB 39-40).

Ennis era
Pagan god (The Lord of the Dance, HB 49); vampires (HB 62-63); voodoo (HB 72-75)

Jenkins era
A ghost causing reality to come unstuck (HB 85-88); the Aboriginal Dreamtime and snake god (HB 89-90); a tear in time (HB 91); fairies and British/Arthurian mythology (HB 92-95); ghost dog (literal, not samurai; HB 98); fairies again (HB 99 and loads more); the anthropomorphic personification of football violence (HB 101); the i-ching (HB 102); werewolves (HB 109); more Arthurian stuff, with pseduo ley-lines (HB 110-114); voodoo again (HB 115); British superstition (HB 116-117); reincarnation (HB 118); a psychic episode aboard a doomed plane (HB 199).

Ellis era
A room tainted by the evil deeds committed there (HB 140); an aborted anti-Christ that pisses evil into people's veins (HB 141); all kinds of goofy shit that's just been made up anyway, but I'd love the TV show to have a giant, baby-eating reptilian queen mother (HB 142).

Azzarello era
A vengeful zombie (HB 157); a book that tells the future (HB 163); a human golem (HB 167); fuck knows - giant killer bats or something (HB 170-174).

Carey era
People's souls being used as drugs (HB 175-176); Hindu goddess Kali (HB 177-180); creepy spirits sent by an old English god (HB 182-183); body-swapping magic again (HB 184); Aboriginal ghosts (HB 186); vampire-demon hybrids and de-aging bone magic (HB 187-188); scary dog thing from the garden of Eden (Judeo-Christian-ish, but not really part of an existing mythology; HB 189-193); a man whose body is infested with souls 197-199; fake memories from parallel lives (HB 200).

Diggle era
Humans being possessed for entertainment (HB 234-237); African cannibal magic (HB 238-242).

Issue 250
A suicide spell hidden in the Queen's speech; a factory burning up human human sin creates unexpected fallout; a crazed Egyptologist who wants to commit human sacrifice; a baseball team cursed by a goat.

Milligan era

Living embodiment of human guilt (HB 251-251); Babylonian gods (HB 256-258 and onwards); alchemy (whenever Epiphany's involved)... ugh, bit depressing going through this again so I'll stop here.

There are loads more scenes of general magic use and generic ghost tales, which both exist outside of the Judeo-Christian mythological sphere, but that's still a pretty wide range of stories, and gives some indication of how broad the series can be in its worldbuilding. I'd especially like to see something along the lines of the Sandman/Hellblazer mythos that says belief shapes reality, and that all gods and creation myths are equally valid - even if some are more powerful than others.

Incidentally, if anyone from the production crew wants me to consult, my rates are reasonable negligible.

#134 Red

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:23 PM

James: OG
Capital is dead labor, which, vampire-like, lives only by sucking living labor, and lives the more, the more labor it sucks.

#135 seventhcircle

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 03:15 PM

James, I just want to confess that I might have a little nerd-crush on you now :D

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Of cause you keep going on. We.. we all keep going on. If we stop laughing, than they have won.
[Alfonse. french-german Comedian, 17.11.15]

#136 slinker

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:05 AM

oh god, more bisexuality! it's everywhere!
When you are a step ahead of everybody else, they call you a genius. When you are two steps ahead, they say you're crazy.

"If you can't say 'Fuck,' you can't say, 'Fuck the government.'" - Lenny Bruce

#137 James

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:08 AM

Aw, shucks. Thanks, SeventhCircle.

#138 Guest_Gillian_*

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:00 AM

Found this on Screenrant

Quote

Another awkward topic is the subject of smoking – a long-standing and extremely enthusiastic habit of Constantine’s, which cannot be shown on-screen due to NBC’s policies. Goyer has spoken in the past about the negotiations that have been going on with the network, and we asked him to outline exactly what they can and cannot show Constantine doing when it comes to cigarettes.


Goyer: Here’s the deal: We cannot show him inhale.
Cerone: We can show him putting out and lighting up.
Goyer: Our hope, our fervent hope, is that fans will see that and appreciate the attempt. Because, look, we can’t change broadcast standards, but what we can do is try and get away with as much as we can… I mean, he’ll talk about it, he is a smoker. We’re not saying he’s not a smoker. It’s not inconceivable that we could do in another season a version of that ‘Dangerous Habits’ storyline.

Outside of smoking, however, Cerone and Goyer assured us that they’e not going to be limited to nice gentle stories and themes.


Goyer: I’m glad we’re at NBC, the home of Hannibal and things like that. They want us to be truthful, they know it’s dark source material.
Cerone: As network writers we both get in the habit, you learn to censor yourself, because you know what you can get away with and you know what you’re going to get notes on. To NBC’s credit, they are literally… like, ‘No no no, kill that guy. Can you go a little darker here?’ They’re pushing us to really… Which is just, the floodgates open for us creatively. It’s just nothing but opportunity because it allows us to… honor the Hellblazer material.



#139 James

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:04 AM

Cool! I hereby name this loophole 'The Clinton clause'.

All the best cig scenes were John just lighting up anyway.

#140 A. Heathen

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:09 AM

It also reminds me of this

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"But that's the whole point, it's supernatural, these things happen.
It's not supposed to be realistic in that sense."




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