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I love Grant Morrison, but...


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#41 Christian

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:12 PM

Except their "sensitivity" moved them in opposite directions.
Lovecraft's sensitivity made him slight at change. He felt that society was being disordered by chaotic forces which were making society progress in ways that were threatening to what he felt of as stability.
Obviously society is messed up. There's a very tiny minority who'd say that society isn't moving in wrong directions in some way, shape, or form...no matter the political ideology of the person. There're plenty of other examples of sensitive individuals from outside that mould...Kafka, for example.

I've argued, as well, that Moore sticks more to traditionalism than Morrison.
Morrison's type of magic is much more the exemplar of "chaos magic". He has little time for history or tradition, and a lot of time for pop culture, wry cynicism, and cutting corners.
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#42 Cunning Man

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:50 AM

View PostChristian, on 04 May 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Except their "sensitivity" moved them in opposite directions.
Lovecraft's sensitivity made him slight at change. He felt that society was being disordered by chaotic forces which were making society progress in ways that were threatening to what he felt of as stability.

Well, each of them characterized the dragon of darkness in his life according to the particulars of his circumstances, but each took up the lance to slay it, and in doing so escape the jaws of death, or the death of his way of life as it were.  Their methods were certainly also different.

View PostChristian, on 04 May 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

I've argued, as well, that Moore sticks more to traditionalism than Morrison.
Morrison's type of magic is much more the exemplar of "chaos magic". He has little time for history or tradition, and a lot of time for pop culture, wry cynicism, and cutting corners.

I think those descriptions are right.  Morrison doesn't seem to have any checks on him, self-imposed or otherwise.  His theory in the new book about Batman being gay and into rave fashion for instance; do we know if he's ever considered the view that the batarangs, stealth, effectiveness of disguise, ridiculously lucky avoidance of bullets, and so on, are all simply a kid's idea of how a grown up could rid the world of crime?  That interpretation of Batman makes a lot more sense to me than stubbornly holding him to realistic standards.  I never hear anyone question Grant.  As much as I enjoy his fiction I don't always understand the authority vested in him on these subjects.
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#43 Christian

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:21 AM

Morrison never said that Batman was gay. He just made some in-jokes (in a wink, wink, nudge, nudge manner) referencing the Batman TV show, which was quite campy.
Morrison introduced female love interests for Wayne during his run also.

I wouldn't point to Morrison too much though, as it's the trend in comic books today, to write them with a wry cynicism for adults who grew up reading comic books, and might be slightly ashamed that they still love the characters.
These creators can't let the characters rest on their laurels, that they exist in a fictional world. It all has to be given a reason in our reality today.
I'd say Morrison brings a lot more fun and reverence for the characters than a lot of creators today.
Moore's just as guilty of deconstruction of comic characters, he's just spent far less time in the world of mainstream superheroes than Morrison.
Watchmen is a perfect example, of taking innocent or dated (The Question was never innocent!) old comic characters and reinventing them for the 1980s.
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#44 bighappygoth41

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:08 PM

View PostCunning Man, on 05 May 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

His theory in the new book about Batman being gay and into rave fashion for instance; do we know if he's ever considered the view that the batarangs, stealth, effectiveness of disguise, ridiculously lucky avoidance of bullets, and so on, are all simply a kid's idea of how a grown up could rid the world of crime
Quite possibly they might be, but Bob Kane Bill Finger was a bit older than that when he came up with the character.
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#45 Cunning Man

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 02:11 PM

View PostChristian, on 05 May 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

Morrison never said that Batman was gay.

Kinda he did.  I thought it was from Supergods which is what I meant when I said "the new book".


View Postbighappygoth41, on 05 May 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

View PostCunning Man, on 05 May 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

His theory in the new book about Batman being gay and into rave fashion for instance; do we know if he's ever considered the view that the batarangs, stealth, effectiveness of disguise, ridiculously lucky avoidance of bullets, and so on, are all simply a kid's idea of how a grown up could rid the world of crime
Quite possibly they might be, but Bob Kane Bill Finger was a bit older than that when he came up with the character.

I'm not sure if you're joking, but adults can write fiction for kids imitative of a child's simpler view of the universe.
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#46 Christian

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:18 PM

OK, I haven't read Supergods yet, so I guess I didn't know what you were referring to.
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#47 dogpoet

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:48 AM

View PostCunning Man, on 05 May 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

View PostChristian, on 05 May 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

Morrison never said that Batman was gay.

Kinda he did.  I thought it was from Supergods which is what I meant when I said "the new book".


View Postbighappygoth41, on 05 May 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

View PostCunning Man, on 05 May 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

His theory in the new book about Batman being gay and into rave fashion for instance; do we know if he's ever considered the view that the batarangs, stealth, effectiveness of disguise, ridiculously lucky avoidance of bullets, and so on, are all simply a kid's idea of how a grown up could rid the world of crime
Quite possibly they might be, but Bob Kane Bill Finger was a bit older than that when he came up with the character.

I'm not sure if you're joking, but adults can write fiction for kids imitative of a child's simpler view of the universe.
They can, but in a few cases they have an overly simple minded view of the universe themselves.

#48 jaynova

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:49 AM

I want to chime in to agree with Christian that Morrison does bring the fun with the characters, and he's probably that "One person, living or dead, you'd like to have dinner with" for me. I kind of want to hire him to be my life coach.
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#49 Christian

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:21 PM

I don't know...
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"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#50 slinker

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:50 AM

Dig the agenda at the Morrison COn in Dublin:

http://morrisonconfe...-abstracts.html
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#51 slinker

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:39 PM

Didn't know where to put this, but Morrison isn't the only one with his own con. Millarworldhas hit Europe.
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#52 dogpoet

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:27 AM

Oh dear. Do you think that somebody might be trying to compensate for that he isn't Grant Morrison's mini me anymore?

#53 Atticus

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

Speaking of which, I read that Fox have taken on Mark Millar to oversee their "superhero universe", guiding the X-Men and the soon-to-be-rebooted Fantastic Four franchises in much the same way that Christopher Nolan and Joss Wheedon are doing elswehere for Superman/Batman and Avengers.

The fact that he's a comic writer, not a movie maker, does not seem to have deterred Fox. I foresee a poor time ahead for these two movie properties (although I wil doff my hat in respect to him if he manages to achieve some success).
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#54 dogpoet

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:21 PM

I'm not sure it's that bad a fit: Millar's rise to his current prominence started when he was given the filmalikeUltimate X Men to write, didn't it?

#55 Atticus

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:17 PM

Maybe I am being unfair, but I haven't been that impressed with Millar for a long time (and consequently I haven't read Ultimate X-Men). I just think that while he can undoubtably turn in a good story he lacks subtlety. Even his good stories feel like being beaten over the head after a few issues.

Nolan & Whedon have a wealth of experience in actually making TV & film, so to hear that Fox is trying to match their success by appointing someone whose experience seems to be limited to working closely with Matthew Vaughn reminds me of John Barnes taking over at Celtic i.e. not terribly encouraging and ends in failure.
What's that film that you love?
What film?
The one about the fucking hairdresser, the space hairdresser and the cowboy. The guy, he's got a tin foil pal and a pedal bin. His father's a robot and he's fucking fucked his sister. Lego! They're all made of fucking lego.

#56 Christian

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:52 PM

I'm in agreement with you about Mark Millar's writing ability.
The Ultimates was the best work he produced. All his other work seems derivative of something someone else once did better, and now Millar is taking his turn at that concept.
I suppose it could even be argued that The Ultimates fits in that frame.

Although, Dog's point is valid. Marvel once gave him a lot of creative power at their company with their characters, and the results seemed to be impressive, as far as appealing to mass tastes in superheroes and hooking readers.
He might not have the experience with movies, but he has experience with those characters, and making them popular with most casual fans, rather than just us hardcore types who have been reading the characters since the 1980s (or whenever).
And, if I'm not mistaken, he had a role in the making of Kick-Ass into a movie.

Besides, with how bad the FF film franchise was, it's not like sticking Millar on that can be a bad thing.
Millar has written some decent FF stories in his time, and it's obvious that the old people behind the FF films had no idea about a decent FF story.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
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#57 dogpoet

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:19 AM

View PostChristian, on 03 October 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

Millar has written some decent FF stories in his time....
When was that, then?

#58 Christian

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:16 PM

You didn't like his run on Fantastic Four?
It wasn't in the same league as the classic runs (Lee, Kirby, Conway, Byrne, Waid), but I thought it worked fairly well as a modern FF run.
I'd honestly probably rank it as near to equal with the Hickman run, which I have found consistently hit or miss.
Hickman's run started out as really good, when it was telling self-contained stories, but once the book hit the "death of Johnny Storm" story, the quality became a lot more shaky.
Plus, he wrote a couple of stories on Ultimate Fantastic Four, which weren't bad at all. Not as good as the Carey run, but still, not bad. He wasn't on the book very long though, I think just two stories.
Of course, outside Carey, the only writers to compare to on UFF were Bendis and Ellis...
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#59 dogpoet

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:02 PM

Come off it, Christian: If you're having Gerry Conway as a classic run and saying Millar isn't even that good, that isn't really a glowing recommendation, is it?

#60 Christian

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:57 PM

Have you read the Gerry Conway issues of Fantastic Four? I love them. I think they hold up well next to Lee & Kirby.
Hickman stated when he started on FF that the Conway run in the '70s was his favourite period on FF, and that was the feel he was trying to recapture on the title. He even had the little bubble heads of the main characters put around the title logo, in homage to how the comic looked during the 1970s.
Now, have you actually read the Conway run on FF, or are you just being antagonistic? "Because it's not Lee & Kirby or Byrne, so internet fans have to pretend that everything else in FF sucked."

Hell, there's even a character (giant golden space gorilla, actually) named Gor associated with Counter-Earth, so you must love Conway's run just for that, eh?
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde




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