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Marvel's One World Order


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#181 Christian

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 06:03 PM

The other two weren't even worth reading, so it's not even a contest.
Then, the Star Lord mini would just pave the way for even greater stories, with the Guardians of the Galaxy book for the entirety of the Abnett/Lanning run.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
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#182 dogpoet

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 06:10 PM

The undead goth Kree at least had Kyle Holtz drawing him, but the less said about that Quasar mini the better...

#183 JohnMcMahon

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 04:37 PM

Yeah, the main mini was just alright, [ Spoiler : Nova just showing up out of nowhere with the OG Phalanx ] was rubbish.  Groot seemed to pick up his 'I am...' speech impediment between the panels of the Star Lord mini and the event proper.
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#184 Christian

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 06:35 PM

Yeah, Groot never spoke like that in his earlier appearance. When he was a "Marvel monster" of the month character, he was able to speak proper English.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#185 dogpoet

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:00 PM

View PostJohnMcMahon, on 02 May 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

Yeah, the main mini was just alright, [ Spoiler : Nova just showing up out of nowhere with the OG Phalanx ] was rubbish.  Groot seemed to pick up his 'I am...' speech impediment between the panels of the Star Lord mini and the event proper.
I imagine he read Michael Moorcock's The War Hound And The World's Pain between the two.
:wink2:

#186 Christian

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:15 PM

Secret Empire #1-This book continues to be on the right-track for an actually good cross-over, although whether it will remain going in the right direction, only time shall tell.
I liked the personal moments in the story, showing what a day-in-the-life under Hydra's America is like for the common person. I enjoyed that Spencer worked in elements of 1984, with the rewriting of history aspect, at the school.
I like that Hawkeye is leading the superhero resistance movement, as it reminds me of Green Arrow.
Spencer is doing a good job.
So far, based on what I've read, this story has managed to upset people on both the Right and the Left, so that's something. The non-fascist Right are upset that white, upstanding, face of America Captain America is now a fascist. While, politically correct people on the Left are upset that Captain America could be construed as a good role model for aspiring fascists. I think these progressives were more upset by the fact that Marvel was selling Hydra T-shirts and encouraging participating comic book stores' staff to wear the shirts as a promotional gimmick, rather than anything in the comic, itself. Like most of these uproars, I don't think the majority of people (outside of the "old school" comic fans who are upset because Steve Rogers isn't doing the same story he's been doing since 1963....how dare Marvel!) who are upset about Secret Empire have actually read anything pertaining to the event, and are just upset by what they imagine.
The Hydra T-shirt thing though....Yeah, it's a fascist organization. I certainly wouldn't be wearing a Hydra T-shirt.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#187 JohnMcMahon

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 07:52 AM

Yeah, I read that last night and liked how dark it was - even as someone with no fondness for either character I thought that the scenes between Cap and Rick Jones were quite affecting.
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#188 GottaGetAGrip

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 04:22 PM

Another common complaint from Internet lefties, one that's been thrown around since the start, is that it's disrespectful to make Cap a Nazi given his Jewish creators. Though I assume that most of these people are also in the "we haven't read it but we're mad about it anyway" camp.

In other news, Christopher Priest is doing an Inhumans mini-series, retelling their origins. I suppose that if there's any writer that might finally be able to make the case for Marvel's Inhumans push (though given the movie's been downgraded to a TV show I wonder how much longer it'll last), it's him.

#189 Christian

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 05:09 PM

I don't think anyone can make that case, especially at this point, where it's been so badly bungled, with the "Inhumans will replace mutants, and be just as popular!" stupidity. Al Ewing is currently writing the Royals. If that fails, I don't see how Priest is going to do a better job. Although, at first, I thought you meant the science fiction writer Christopher Priest, and got kind of excited. I think Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore, or Grant Morrison are about the only choices to save this Inhumans push now.

They really should have stuck to what Paul Jenkins had done with the characters, as that was easily the strongest story ever done with the characters, and one of Marvel's best titles ever. Although, I think it's just hard to get more than a mini-series out of the characters. I just don't think they can maintain an ongoing series for any length of time, Not unless you completely change everything interesting about the characters, which is the direction that Marvel decided to try, and that failed, because it took everything interesting away from the characters.

Now, the original origin of the Inhumans story, by Jack Kirby, from back in the late-1960s, was a really good story, but it was only a few pages back-up story in Journey into Mystery, and only lasted a certain number of issues. Trying to get a good story that lasts past 12 chapters is the problem with those characters.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#190 dogpoet

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 05:52 PM

View PostChristian, on 06 May 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

I don't think anyone can make that case, especially at this point, where it's been so badly bungled, with the "Inhumans will replace mutants, and be just as popular!" stupidity. Al Ewing is currently writing the Royals. If that fails, I don't see how Priest is going to do a better job. Although, at first, I thought you meant the science fiction writer Christopher Priest, and got kind of excited. I think Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore, or Grant Morrison are about the only choices to save this Inhumans push now.

They really should have stuck to what Paul Jenkins had done with the characters, as that was easily the strongest story ever done with the characters, and one of Marvel's best titles ever. Although, I think it's just hard to get more than a mini-series out of the characters. I just don't think they can maintain an ongoing series for any length of time, Not unless you completely change everything interesting about the characters, which is the direction that Marvel decided to try, and that failed, because it took everything interesting away from the characters.

Now, the original origin of the Inhumans story, by Jack Kirby, from back in the late-1960s, was a really good story, but it was only a few pages back-up story in Journey into Mystery, and only lasted a certain number of issues. Trying to get a good story that lasts past 12 chapters is the problem with those characters.
Wasn't the replacing mutants stupidity more a fit of spite aimed at Sony (who are still refusing to relinquish the film rights to the X Men) than something that served any sort of purpose or plan in terms of storytelling?
(I'm dubious about the notion of Gaiman saving a Marvel superhero comic after the job he did relaunching The Eternals, btw.)

#191 Christian

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 06:14 PM

Well, it depends on by "save" do you mean good story-telling or increasing sales? Obviously, Marvel only cares about one of those. I'm not saying they're adverse to the idea of both, but one is the bottom-line, while the other is incidental.
Gaiman's name would definitely push the Inhumans up the sales charts, but yeah, Gaiman's track record of telling quality stories at Marvel is severely lacking.

The fact that sales were sluggish and declining on the Inhumans titles, while sales continued to dip on the mutant titles, proved that the idea was a failure. If readers had responded to the stupidity by embracing that Inhumans can be just as successful as the mutant titles, then Marvel would have considered it all an unqualified success and continued on with their path of idiocy.
Now, Marvel are stuck in "make-up" mode, as they try to undo all the damage of their pettiness. The Resurrexion campaign is an attempt to show that Marvel does still care about the mutant titles and wants to fix them.
While they wanted to screw over the movie franchise, they found that fans weren't accepting of the Inhumans as a replacement for mutants, and so they quietly decided to move on, and try to see if they could regain some of their lost sales by rebooting the X-Men titles instead.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#192 JohnMcMahon

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 07:14 PM

Posted Image

'nuff said ?
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#193 dogpoet

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 07:48 PM

When I can still add that the publicity still above looks more like a bunch of S&M fans on their way to the cosplay competition at a science fiction convention than the cast of a superhero series, not quite enough has been said, I'm afraid.
:wink2:

#194 Christian

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 12:53 AM

Reading more "SJW" whining about Secret Empire....apparently FOX News found something else to bitch about, as the Right seems far less upset about "Nazi Cap" than the supposed Left now...
I'll just say it's a damn good thing that 1984 was released long before the internet. I could just see the outrage now. "Boycott George Orwell! Ban his book!". This little Hitler thinks that a society like the one in 1984 is how we should live. How dare he! We've seen the horrors of Hitler's Germany, but this fascist can stand there with a leering face and tell us that the future is a jackboot stepping on our face forever? We won't stand for this type of thinking! The publisher of this book owes everyone an apology. I hope we never see the swastika-loving Orwell in book stores again!
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#195 JohnMcMahon

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 08:53 AM

Rich Johnston ran a...piece ?....recently where some of his comic chums backed the outrage and were being rather unseemly about its impending sales doom but I note the 0 issue topped the charts.
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#196 Christian

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 11:28 PM

Ugh. The newly relaunched X-books will be participating in Secret Empire. That's a really bad idea, considering that the books are just starting out fresh, and trying to find a voice. They'll be quickly shoved in to a cross-over.
What sounds even worse is that solicitations make it sound as if the X-Men will be siding with Captain America for the event.
Nothing says redeeming a property that has been failing like turning the persecuted minority stand-ins in to fascist sympathizers!

You know, the furor over turning Captain America in to a Nazi was one thing. Red Skull used the cosmic cube to change history....at the end of the event, the reset button could be hit, and suddenly Cap wasn't a Nazi after all.
However, dragging other superheroes in to this event and having them decide to side with the fascists....yeah, that seems to be a bad business decision.
OK, Steve Rogers was just under the influence of the cosmic cube this whole time! He wasn't really a Nazi! Yeah, but what about all those superheroes who decided that fascism really is a good idea? Whoops! There's no resetting things back to zero for those guys, they're just tarnished.
So, if Marvel's whole idea was to revitalize the X-franchise, which they tried to run in to the ground due to movie rights....why would they even bother, if they're going to immediately run the property in to the ground again by revealing that the X-Men have zero problem supporting a fascist dictatorship?

I've seen people complaining about Magneto apparently siding with Captain America, and saying this is a slur against Jewish people, because of Magneto being Jewish.
I say it's a defensible position, if it's just Magneto. In the Heroes for Hunger one-shot benefit comic, Alan Moore wrote the Magneto scene, which showed a world where Magneto's vision for "mutant supremacy" had come about, and basically, Moore was saying that Magneto had become a new Hitler.
I like Magneto as a character, and don't really like the position (I'd like to see Magneto leading the opposition), but it is a position that you can at least understand.
However, to have the other X-Men embrace a fascist dictatorship is a different matter.
Emma Frost was just positioned as a psychotic villain again, rebuilding the Hellfire Club, due to the ending of "Inhumans vs. X-Men". Now, solicitations show that Emma Frost is leading the mutant resistance against Hydra, and attempting to rally a rebellion amongst the X-Men against Captain America's dictatorship.
What's the message here?

Marvel just finished Civil War 2, which featured hero versus hero, with Marvel claiming that both sides had a valid point. No, not really. I felt that a character like Captain Marvel was tarnished as an authoritarian due to the events of Civil War 2, but whatever. Marvel said that Secret Empire would be a case of heroes fighting villains, not heroes versus heroes again. Yet, it looks like Marvel wants Secret Empire to be another Civil War event, even though they just finished telling that story, and this time it's about some heroes embracing a dictatorship.
I can understand about Nick Spencer wanting to tell a story about the appeal of fascism, how so many people in Germany could come to see Hitler as a saviour. However, Marvel wants to continue to publish characters as superheroes after the events of Secret Empire, and making characters who are meant to be heroes in to apologists for fascism and dictatorship is asking far too much.
Why change the original idea of heroes fighting against evil? Why turn a sympathetic group of characters like the X-Men in to characters who can see the appeal of fascism?

Meanwhile, in better news, it seems that Marvel has backed away from their initial kneejerk reaction to falling sales by proclaiming "Diversity does not sell!". Instead, it seems to have dawned on someone that instead of alienating a segment of their core readers by lambasting them, that a better idea for plummeting Marvel sales may be the fact that they've been flooding the market for years....with books that no one reads, with constant cross-over events, and with yearly line-wide relaunches. Wow! Marvel looking themselves in the mirror and realizing that it is, indeed, bad business decisions that have hurt them, not the fact that they've put out too many "black or female superheroes"!
Instead of blaming minorities for law sales, Marvel is now cutting back their line of comics to a reasonable amount of new titles each month.

Marvel just has zero idea what they're doing. Some of their titles still tell a good story. They just seem to be making the stupidest decisions.
The problem was never "diversity". Comic books featuring minority characters that have been around for years sell a good amount of copies....Black Panther, Power Man and Iron Fist.....
The real demographic issue is that Marvel is creating legacy characters by introducing teenage characters to replace older characters, such as a teenage girl replacing Tony Stark as Iron Man.
The core age of comic book readers is 30s to early 40s in 2017. We're old. We don't really know much about youth culture. The comic book reader is set in tradition, they like reading about Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, Norse god Thor fighting against super-villains.
The problem isn't diversity, but that Marvel has been busy tearing down their older characters (who are still starring in the movies, by the way!), and replacing them with young legacy characters.
Now, attempting to appeal to younger readers is a smart move. Us 42 year old hardcore fans aren't always going to be around to buy comics. Marvel needs to reach out to a new generation of fans.
It's the way Marvel has gone about doing this which is hurting the value of their characters.
Then, after tearing down these characters for years by showing that they're very unheroic, Marvel turns around and says, "OK. This isn't working. It's time to return back to basics!".
At the same time, they're making decisions like portraying certain of their characters as fascist sympathizers!
Is that the way to save these characters?
So, now we're left with a Marvel Universe where a lot of the young, legacy characters are the only superheroes who are actually acting like heroes!
Yet, Marvel's message is that they understand, and they're moving in a "back to basics" direction.
Fixing the X-Men titles by moving them back to the core principles that readers embraced with the X-titles for years is a good idea. Deciding that it's ok to then make the X-Men fascist sympathizers....yeah, not a good idea.
Is Marvel still trying to tear down their old characters and replace them with newer, heroic versions? Is Marvel backing away from doing this?
It seems that Marvel doesn't know what it's doing.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#197 Christian

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 04:14 AM

Rocket #1-Ah, I knew Al Ewing wouldn't let me down.
Do you want to read a really good Han Solo story? Did you ever wish that Han Solo was a raccoon though?
Well, you in luck! Buy this book.
Rocket Raccoon written as Han Solo, with a plot featuring an environmental message. I'm not going to complain.
A sexy otter ex-girlfriend? You know that's in there!
The Technet from classic Excalibur? They show up too.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#198 dogpoet

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:39 AM

View PostChristian, on 10 May 2017 - 11:28 PM, said:

Ugh. The newly relaunched X-books will be participating in Secret Empire. That's a really bad idea, considering that the books are just starting out fresh, and trying to find a voice. They'll be quickly shoved in to a cross-over.
What sounds even worse is that solicitations make it sound as if the X-Men will be siding with Captain America for the event.
Nothing says redeeming a property that has been failing like turning the persecuted minority stand-ins in to fascist sympathizers!

You know, the furor over turning Captain America in to a Nazi was one thing. Red Skull used the cosmic cube to change history....at the end of the event, the reset button could be hit, and suddenly Cap wasn't a Nazi after all.
However, dragging other superheroes in to this event and having them decide to side with the fascists....yeah, that seems to be a bad business decision.
OK, Steve Rogers was just under the influence of the cosmic cube this whole time! He wasn't really a Nazi! Yeah, but what about all those superheroes who decided that fascism really is a good idea? Whoops! There's no resetting things back to zero for those guys, they're just tarnished.
So, if Marvel's whole idea was to revitalize the X-franchise, which they tried to run in to the ground due to movie rights....why would they even bother, if they're going to immediately run the property in to the ground again by revealing that the X-Men have zero problem supporting a fascist dictatorship?

I've seen people complaining about Magneto apparently siding with Captain America, and saying this is a slur against Jewish people, because of Magneto being Jewish.
I say it's a defensible position, if it's just Magneto. In the Heroes for Hunger one-shot benefit comic, Alan Moore wrote the Magneto scene, which showed a world where Magneto's vision for "mutant supremacy" had come about, and basically, Moore was saying that Magneto had become a new Hitler.
I like Magneto as a character, and don't really like the position (I'd like to see Magneto leading the opposition), but it is a position that you can at least understand.
However, to have the other X-Men embrace a fascist dictatorship is a different matter.
Emma Frost was just positioned as a psychotic villain again, rebuilding the Hellfire Club, due to the ending of "Inhumans vs. X-Men". Now, solicitations show that Emma Frost is leading the mutant resistance against Hydra, and attempting to rally a rebellion amongst the X-Men against Captain America's dictatorship.
What's the message here?

Marvel just finished Civil War 2, which featured hero versus hero, with Marvel claiming that both sides had a valid point. No, not really. I felt that a character like Captain Marvel was tarnished as an authoritarian due to the events of Civil War 2, but whatever. Marvel said that Secret Empire would be a case of heroes fighting villains, not heroes versus heroes again. Yet, it looks like Marvel wants Secret Empire to be another Civil War event, even though they just finished telling that story, and this time it's about some heroes embracing a dictatorship.
I can understand about Nick Spencer wanting to tell a story about the appeal of fascism, how so many people in Germany could come to see Hitler as a saviour. However, Marvel wants to continue to publish characters as superheroes after the events of Secret Empire, and making characters who are meant to be heroes in to apologists for fascism and dictatorship is asking far too much.
Why change the original idea of heroes fighting against evil? Why turn a sympathetic group of characters like the X-Men in to characters who can see the appeal of fascism?

Meanwhile, in better news, it seems that Marvel has backed away from their initial kneejerk reaction to falling sales by proclaiming "Diversity does not sell!". Instead, it seems to have dawned on someone that instead of alienating a segment of their core readers by lambasting them, that a better idea for plummeting Marvel sales may be the fact that they've been flooding the market for years....with books that no one reads, with constant cross-over events, and with yearly line-wide relaunches. Wow! Marvel looking themselves in the mirror and realizing that it is, indeed, bad business decisions that have hurt them, not the fact that they've put out too many "black or female superheroes"!
Instead of blaming minorities for law sales, Marvel is now cutting back their line of comics to a reasonable amount of new titles each month.

Marvel just has zero idea what they're doing. Some of their titles still tell a good story. They just seem to be making the stupidest decisions.
The problem was never "diversity". Comic books featuring minority characters that have been around for years sell a good amount of copies....Black Panther, Power Man and Iron Fist.....
The real demographic issue is that Marvel is creating legacy characters by introducing teenage characters to replace older characters, such as a teenage girl replacing Tony Stark as Iron Man.
The core age of comic book readers is 30s to early 40s in 2017. We're old. We don't really know much about youth culture. The comic book reader is set in tradition, they like reading about Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, Norse god Thor fighting against super-villains.
The problem isn't diversity, but that Marvel has been busy tearing down their older characters (who are still starring in the movies, by the way!), and replacing them with young legacy characters.
Now, attempting to appeal to younger readers is a smart move. Us 42 year old hardcore fans aren't always going to be around to buy comics. Marvel needs to reach out to a new generation of fans.
It's the way Marvel has gone about doing this which is hurting the value of their characters.
Then, after tearing down these characters for years by showing that they're very unheroic, Marvel turns around and says, "OK. This isn't working. It's time to return back to basics!".
At the same time, they're making decisions like portraying certain of their characters as fascist sympathizers!
Is that the way to save these characters?
So, now we're left with a Marvel Universe where a lot of the young, legacy characters are the only superheroes who are actually acting like heroes!
Yet, Marvel's message is that they understand, and they're moving in a "back to basics" direction.
Fixing the X-Men titles by moving them back to the core principles that readers embraced with the X-titles for years is a good idea. Deciding that it's ok to then make the X-Men fascist sympathizers....yeah, not a good idea.
Is Marvel still trying to tear down their old characters and replace them with newer, heroic versions? Is Marvel backing away from doing this?
It seems that Marvel doesn't know what it's doing.
Maybe they've decided as the whole "replace all of the mutants with inhumans" thing didn't work, they now need to take more extreme measures to trash the franchise so that Sony will abandon it?
"These mutants are all social darwinists as well as believing they're the next stage in human evolution, so of course they're fascists..."

#199 Christian

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 05:38 PM

Yeah, it does sort of make you wonder....Especially considering that the Inhumans are being rounded up by Hydra and placed in concentration camps. It doesn't exactly sound like Marvel is giving up on the "Inhumans are the new mutants, and mutants are just lame!" approach, even though Marvel claimed that they realized their mistake.
The Inhumans were the ones whose society was based on eugenics in the original stories too.

Marvel never learn, and the lessons they are claiming to learn about plummeting monthly sales on most of their titles probably won't stick either.
Marvel is canceling 30 of their on-going titles....to make room for All New All Different Marvel NOW NOW relaunch, where they'll replace those 30 titles with 50 new titles!
Marvel has heard fans loud and clear about too many cross-overs, which is why Secretest Secret Wars will mark the final cross-over event for 2017! Due to long delays, the cross-over will end up stretching in to 2018, and then Marvel will be ready with their first cross-over event of 2018, called Avengers vs. Inhumans vs. Nazi Mutants!
Marvel has finally learned to listen to you fans! Oh, and no more blacks or queers in our new titles either!
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde

#200 Christian

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 07:31 PM

Well, I don't know how far off the mark I was with my criticism of Marvel.
Marvel has announced that this Autumn will mark the Marvel Legacy event, where the Marvel Universe returns to its roots. So, yes, after Secret Empire, we'll see another line-wide event.
However, rather than another reboot of the Marvel Universe with new #1s of all their titles, Marvel will return to the "legacy" numbering system again, as all of their titles will go back to being numbered at whatever issue a character's series would be at if not for all the reboots. Yeah, good luck with that pain in the ass for some of these books, Marvel. I'd have no idea how you could even do a "legacy" numbering on some of these books at this point, as their titles have gone through so many different incarnations by now.
"I wish it were fin du globe," said Dorian with a sigh.
"Life is such a great disappointment."
-Oscar Wilde




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