[Rassmguy]

This sound like a horrible idea:

http://forum.newsara...ad.php?t=156651


"A female fan who said she couldn't follow the stories in DC Universe #0 wondered if, amongst the grand storylines currently playing out, there would be any smaller, character driven story that would be accessible to the casual reader. Books like Straczynski's upcoming Brave and the Bold were pointed out as fulfilling that purpose. Then, despite Sadler's attempts to jokingly end the panel, Straczynski went down the list of some of his planned team-ups for the book such as Batman and Spectre, Lex Luthor and Swamp Thing, Deadman and Wonder Woman, Flash (Barry Allen) and the Blackhawks, Constantine and Eclipso, Doom Patrol and the Legion of Super-Heroes, Two-Face and Hawk and Dove, Challengers of the Unknown and the Metal Men and, the audience's favorite, the Legion of Substitute Heroes and the Inferior Five."

[Mark]

If it was still by Waid/Perez, I'd be a lot more excited. Not a fan of JMS' writing at all, so I won't be bothering with this. On principle, though, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[JohnMcMahon]

Interesting in that it'd mark the end of the strong demarcation between the DCU and Vertigo but outside of that it doesn't really bother me either way.

[JohnMcMahon]

Newsarama note: the original article contained references to John Constantine and Swamp Thing team-ups which have since been changed. Those characters and team-ups are still in negotiations. Historically, there has been a relatively strict separation between characters in the DC Universe and those appearing under the Vertigo imprint.

[James]

Considering that the DCU has Sue Dibney raped and visits all kinds of explicit violence on heroes, villains and innocents alike - and considering their forays into adults-only comics under the main DCU banner - I'm still amazed they can be bothered to keep the seperation of Vertigo and DCU alive.

[Christian]

Some of those team up ideas do sound pretty interesting. I'm a fan of the more obscure elements of the DCU. It really is a shame that Mark Waid left the title with all these team ups planned.

Swamp Thing did make an appearance in the Days of Vengeance Infinite Crisis-tie in book. There was a scene showing all of the DCU mystical characters standing in a circle and Swamp Thing was in the picture.
John Constantine did not make an appearance.
So, I figured that Swamp Thing was fair game to be used in the DCU again.

[Rassmguy]

Swamp Thing did make an appearance in the Days of Vengeance Infinite Crisis-tie in book. There was a scene showing all of the DCU mystical characters standing in a circle and Swamp Thing was in the picture.

Herrrm? Huh? What? I didn't even know about that--can you tell me more about that issue?

[Rassmguy]

Incidentally, I should probably explain why I don't like the idea. I'm not a superhero fan. I know that's a bias, and I readily admit that it's a silly one given that John and Swamp Thing are part of a superhero universe. But for me, the tales that didn't featue the Spandex crowd have always been the ones that worked best. Seeing them interact with superheroes or supervillains has always knocked me right back out of the story. I'd hate to see Swamp Thing fighting Lex Luthor, even though Lex did help General Sunderland try to kill him during the Moore run. And I cringe at the thought of Constantine working side-by-side, or against, a superhero/villain type. It's just not something I can see myself enjoying.

[A. Heathen]

Considering that the DCU has Sue Dibney raped and visits all kinds of explicit violence on heroes, villains and innocents alike - and considering their forays into adults-only comics under the main DCU banner - I'm still amazed they can be bothered to keep the seperation of Vertigo and DCU alive.

I am glad that they are keeping that misogynistic crap away from Vertigo books that are not written by Brian Azzarello.
Imagine a poor goth sees Darkseid in their Sandman books and then goes and tries a JLA crossover !
Heaven forfend !

[Christian]

Swamp Thing did make an appearance in the Days of Vengeance Infinite Crisis-tie in book. There was a scene showing all of the DCU mystical characters standing in a circle and Swamp Thing was in the picture.

Herrrm? Huh? What? I didn't even know about that--can you tell me more about that issue?

Oh, I was wrong. It's actually in Infinite Crisis, where all the DCU mystical characters gather at Stonehenge to summon the Spectre. Swamp Thing is one of the characters standing in the crowd.

Incidentally, I should probably explain why I don't like the idea. I'm not a superhero fan. I know that's a bias, and I readily admit that it's a silly one given that John and Swamp Thing are part of a superhero universe. But for me, the tales that didn't featue the Spandex crowd have always been the ones that worked best. Seeing them interact with superheroes or supervillains has always knocked me right back out of the story. I'd hate to see Swamp Thing fighting Lex Luthor, even though Lex did help General Sunderland try to kill him during the Moore run. And I cringe at the thought of Constantine working side-by-side, or against, a superhero/villain type. It's just not something I can see myself enjoying.

Swamp Thing doesn't faze me, because his series was littered with superheroes. The guy's met Superman and Batman! And, Nancy Collins' run often used superhero plots, like Swamp Thing turning into Spawn and punching people out. I just don't think that's a big deal.
I do think it may be a bigger deal with John Constantine, although I'm not overly bothered, and it was discussing a team-up between John and Eclipso. Eclipso is a mystical character. There's a possibility to do a team-up that wouldn't offend the Vertigo readers who don't want to see John being used in a superhero story.

[JasonT]

I like what I've seen of JMS' comic writing, and I'd be interested to see how he writes Constantine. So I'd buy that funnybook.

[Mark]

I cringe at the thought of Constantine working side-by-side, or against, a superhero/villain type. It's just not something I can see myself enjoying.

You could always just...you know...not buy it? We've had this discussion here plenty of times, but the odd Constantine guest appearance in the odd "mainstream" DC title isn't going to change Hellblazer in the slightest. Would it really be so awful if people with tastes different to your own were able to enjoy their own thing, while leaving you entirely free to enjoy yours?

[Rassmguy]

You could always just...you know...not buy it? We've had this discussion here plenty of times, but the odd Constantine guest appearance in the odd "mainstream" DC title isn't going to change Hellblazer in the slightest. Would it really be so awful if people with tastes different to your own were able to enjoy their own thing, while leaving you entirely free to enjoy yours?

Woah, hey, I never said otherwise. I just said I personally wouldn't find such team-ups to my liking since I'm not fond of superhero books. Just expressing my opinion, nothing more. If others want to buy and read them, then that's absolutely fine--to each their own, vive la diference and all that. I never implied others should have the same tastes as me, nor that they shouldn't be able to enjoy their own thing, and I certainly didn't say the stories shouldn't be published just because I'm not anxious to read them. If we all liked the same thing, this would be a boring forum, and you'll never see me telling other people what they should or shouldn't read or purchase. Color me confused, Mark, because I'm not entirely sure what promoted your response. Peace, brother.

[Bilirubin]

Pot, may I introduce Kettle?

[Rassmguy]

Oh, I was wrong. It's actually in Infinite Crisis, where all the DCU mystical characters gather at Stonehenge to summon the Spectre. Swamp Thing is one of the characters standing in the crowd.

Oh, okay--that I knew about. Thanks for clarifying.

Swamp Thing doesn't faze me, because his series was littered with superheroes. The guy's met Superman and Batman!

True. He's also met Adam Strange, the JLA, the Green Lantern and other heroes. Luckily, that happened on a limited enough basis that I was still able to enjoy the series. :)

And, Nancy Collins' run often used superhero plots, like Swamp Thing turning into Spawn and punching people out. I just don't think that's a big deal.

Are you sure you don't mean Mark Millar's run? He did utilize a bunch of old-time superheroes, but Nancy Collins' run focused primarily on the Cajun people, Alec's home life and a more soap-operatic motif. Regarding Spawn, do you mean that figuratively, and I'm just being obtuse? I ask because he definitely never turned into Spawn. :)

I do think it may be a bigger deal with John Constantine, although I'm not overly bothered, and it was discussing a team-up between John and Eclipso. Eclipso is a mystical character. There's a possibility to do a team-up that wouldn't offend the Vertigo readers who don't want to see John being used in a superhero story.

Oh, okay--I'm not familiar with Eclipso, so I didn't know that. Alright, maybe it wouldn't be so bad, then.

[Mark]

Woah, hey, I never said otherwise.

(scans back through previous post...)

Shit, you didn't, did you? Sorry, I appear to have misread a key part in your last post, leaving me responding to something you never actually said. Apologies, sincerely offered.

[Rassmguy]

(scans back through previous post...) Shit, you didn't, did you? Sorry, I appear to have misread a key part in your last post, leaving me responding to something you never actually said. Apologies, sincerely offered.

Not a problem, man! I've done the same thing myself, I'm sure. :)

Apologies, sincerely accepted.

[Christian]

And, Nancy Collins' run often used superhero plots, like Swamp Thing turning into Spawn and punching people out. I just don't think that's a big deal.

Are you sure you don't mean Mark Millar's run? He did utilize a bunch of old-time superheroes, but Nancy Collins' run focused primarily on the Cajun people, Alec's home life and a more soap-operatic motif. Regarding Spawn, do you mean that figuratively, and I'm just being obtuse? I ask because he definitely never turned into Spawn. :)

Nah. Millar did enough "mature" renderings of the obscure superhero characters he used that it'd do well to piss off the superhero fan base.
Collins run was divided into two types of stories. First, you had the stories based in Cajun life and lore. Then, you had the stories straight out of superhero comic books and soap opera. Swamp Thing grew those spikes on himself, and he looked a lot like Spawn (hence my reference). And, there was the Sunderland Corp. story-line, where Swamp Thing and John Constantine went around smashing things and punching out people and demons. It was by far the worst written John Constantine, ever.
I'm not a fan of Collins' run, in the least. It was my least favourite run until Dysart, who actually offended me. The Cajun stories were ok though.

[Atticus]

Would it really be so awful if people with tastes different to your own were able to enjoy their own thing, while leaving you entirely free to enjoy yours?

But then what would we all bitch about?

[Red]

(scans back through previous post...) Shit, you didn't, did you? Sorry, I appear to have misread a key part in your last post, leaving me responding to something you never actually said. Apologies, sincerely offered.

Not a problem, man! I've done the same thing myself, I'm sure. :)

Apologies, sincerely accepted.