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The Demons book is really rather good. I got it off Amazon ZShops for about 5 quid. It was a bound galley though.
John Shirley Rants about Constantine
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#22
JohnMcMahon 
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Posted 05 February 2005 - 10:43 AM
Bugger - the website for my local bookshop claimed they had copies of Demons in stock but this has proven to be a filthy lie.
A search in a couple of other shops on the way home last night didn't prove any joy either, so it's a quick gander in Chapters on Monday and then a shot at getting it ordered in special.
A search in a couple of other shops on the way home last night didn't prove any joy either, so it's a quick gander in Chapters on Monday and then a shot at getting it ordered in special.
FUCK YOU, I don't need this shit
I'm down with the sickness
I'm down with the sickness
#23
jpshirley2005
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Posted 09 February 2005 - 09:50 PM
Mr Bradstreet! Been a long time! That was Most bumming the cigarettes. The bald one.
Anyway it's interesting I was considered to write Hellblazer. Mike Carey did a really good job on the one I read recently...
I would love to write comics, or certain comics anyway, including this one.
Bradstreet is a great idea to illustrate the books...will mention it...not that they'll let me decide...
The first book is called Warlord and basically it's about a plot to use magic to start a world war. A demon/god who lusts for human war, colloquially called the warlord, is involved. John is learning Persian magic (as in the magi) in the middle east, then finds this thing boiling up around him. War is the general subject matter I guess...I submitted like eight ideas for novels and that's the one they picked...It does have topicality!
Anyway it's interesting I was considered to write Hellblazer. Mike Carey did a really good job on the one I read recently...
I would love to write comics, or certain comics anyway, including this one.
Bradstreet is a great idea to illustrate the books...will mention it...not that they'll let me decide...
The first book is called Warlord and basically it's about a plot to use magic to start a world war. A demon/god who lusts for human war, colloquially called the warlord, is involved. John is learning Persian magic (as in the magi) in the middle east, then finds this thing boiling up around him. War is the general subject matter I guess...I submitted like eight ideas for novels and that's the one they picked...It does have topicality!
#24
A. Heathen
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Posted 09 February 2005 - 11:07 PM
Well John,
I read your adaptation, and even allowing for the infinite levels you add to the script (you know, scene descriptions, character background and motivations, adjectives and stuff) it's a much better story for your intervention.
I think it is evident from your posts about the "R" word (redemption not R-rated !) that you have more of a grip of the matter than the movie people, and even though you are stuck with their version, you've tried to make sense of it.
There are several clues that Constanteen's view of God is not the same as John Constantine's.
1) page 56: "Why does God have to drag these misteries out?"
Our John: "Who gives a toss why God has to be such a boor ?"
2) page 228: (To Midnite) "Ever considered ... (converting?)"
Our John: "Of course, these items have much more power on those who believe in them."
3) page 300: see in spoiler box below
Sadly, there was a moment on page 212 where I realised that Angela is the Gatekeeper and Francisco is the Keymaster.
Shame that Keanu didn't get to quote Bill Murray: "Okay? So, she's a dog."
Or summon Mammon in the shape of the Sta Puft man.
What is interesting to see is that your adaptation pretty much avoids the so-called magic bullet "con" theory all together. As far as I can see, your interpretation is similar to my own - he strikes (un)lucky at the end and engages in some smug banter with the Devil. I say "unlucky" because for Our John, going to Heaven having redeemed himself is just plain silly !
So, we know that Keanu "has to kill himself twice" to discover "God has a plan for us all". However, in the script AND the book the only foreshadowing to the suicide is Ellie and Midnite separately tell Constanteen that "yours is the one soul that The Devil would come up to collect personally. It is *this* that our resourceful chappy uses to defeat Mammon & co.
And to make matters worse, Constanteen has to ask the Devil to free Isabel from Hell, where she is condemned as a suicide, even though that suicide was an attempt to save the world ...
John is redeemed by God after his *second* suicide - despite the fact that he did the first one selfishly and the second one ... wait a minute that does not match ? Why didn't God save Isabel and free us from all that jiggery-pokery ???
Please don't take those as criticisms of your work, sir, we know where all the dialogue involved comes from.
One other thing:
I am disappointed in the books lack of prominence on its covers for "Hellblazer".
But to finish on a high note, I am definitely looking forward to the proper books.
I read your adaptation, and even allowing for the infinite levels you add to the script (you know, scene descriptions, character background and motivations, adjectives and stuff) it's a much better story for your intervention.
I think it is evident from your posts about the "R" word (redemption not R-rated !) that you have more of a grip of the matter than the movie people, and even though you are stuck with their version, you've tried to make sense of it.
There are several clues that Constanteen's view of God is not the same as John Constantine's.
1) page 56: "Why does God have to drag these misteries out?"
Our John: "Who gives a toss why God has to be such a boor ?"
2) page 228: (To Midnite) "Ever considered ... (converting?)"
Our John: "Of course, these items have much more power on those who believe in them."
3) page 300: see in spoiler box below
Sadly, there was a moment on page 212 where I realised that Angela is the Gatekeeper and Francisco is the Keymaster.
Shame that Keanu didn't get to quote Bill Murray: "Okay? So, she's a dog."
Or summon Mammon in the shape of the Sta Puft man.
What is interesting to see is that your adaptation pretty much avoids the so-called magic bullet "con" theory all together. As far as I can see, your interpretation is similar to my own - he strikes (un)lucky at the end and engages in some smug banter with the Devil. I say "unlucky" because for Our John, going to Heaven having redeemed himself is just plain silly !
QUOTE (Redemption Plot Inconsistency Hour)
So, we know that Keanu "has to kill himself twice" to discover "God has a plan for us all". However, in the script AND the book the only foreshadowing to the suicide is Ellie and Midnite separately tell Constanteen that "yours is the one soul that The Devil would come up to collect personally. It is *this* that our resourceful chappy uses to defeat Mammon & co.
And to make matters worse, Constanteen has to ask the Devil to free Isabel from Hell, where she is condemned as a suicide, even though that suicide was an attempt to save the world ...
John is redeemed by God after his *second* suicide - despite the fact that he did the first one selfishly and the second one ... wait a minute that does not match ? Why didn't God save Isabel and free us from all that jiggery-pokery ???
Please don't take those as criticisms of your work, sir, we know where all the dialogue involved comes from.
One other thing:
I am disappointed in the books lack of prominence on its covers for "Hellblazer".
But to finish on a high note, I am definitely looking forward to the proper books.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"But that's the whole point, it's supernatural, these things happen.
It's not supposed to be realistic in that sense."
"But that's the whole point, it's supernatural, these things happen.
It's not supposed to be realistic in that sense."
#25
A. Heathen
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Posted 09 February 2005 - 11:09 PM
Oh. PS.
Do they REALLY have hospitals in the USA that combined Psychiatry, Cardiology and Hydrotherapy ???
I guess I can believe anything of that crazy place !
Do they REALLY have hospitals in the USA that combined Psychiatry, Cardiology and Hydrotherapy ???
I guess I can believe anything of that crazy place !
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"But that's the whole point, it's supernatural, these things happen.
It's not supposed to be realistic in that sense."
"But that's the whole point, it's supernatural, these things happen.
It's not supposed to be realistic in that sense."
#26
JohnMcMahon
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Posted 10 February 2005 - 12:16 AM
QUOTE (jpshirley2005 @ Feb 9 2005, 09:50 PM)
The first book is called Warlord and basically it's about a plot to use magic to start a world war. A demon/god who lusts for human war, colloquially called the warlord, is involved. John is learning Persian magic (as in the magi) in the middle east, then finds this thing boiling up around him. War is the general subject matter I guess...I submitted like eight ideas for novels and that's the one they picked...It does have topicality!
Oooooo......that'll do quite nicely...though a demon called 'Warlord' sounds a bit iffy.
FUCK YOU, I don't need this shit
I'm down with the sickness
I'm down with the sickness
#27
Christian
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Posted 10 February 2005 - 05:39 AM
Not really sure what hydrotherapy is, exactly, Adrian.
But, yes, they do have magical mystery hosptials which house BOTH psychiatry and cardiology. It's not just in movies and comics! AND, these hospitals have about 4 nurses working in them!
Why is John Constantine the ONLY soul Satan would come to collect personally?!
John-Not if he wears a cool helmet!
But, yes, they do have magical mystery hosptials which house BOTH psychiatry and cardiology. It's not just in movies and comics! AND, these hospitals have about 4 nurses working in them!
Why is John Constantine the ONLY soul Satan would come to collect personally?!
John-Not if he wears a cool helmet!
"We are peaceful people, we only want your dog."
-Everittstown, NJ CE3 (11/06/57)
-Everittstown, NJ CE3 (11/06/57)
#28
TheMojoPin
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Posted 10 February 2005 - 05:42 AM
HEADS UP!!!
#30
JohnMcMahon
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Posted 10 February 2005 - 09:34 AM
...
Yeah, they reall should've gotten Tim to do the cover.
Yeah, they reall should've gotten Tim to do the cover.
FUCK YOU, I don't need this shit
I'm down with the sickness
I'm down with the sickness
#31
A. Heathen
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Posted 10 February 2005 - 11:26 AM
QUOTE (Christian @ Feb 10 2005, 06:39 AM)
Not really sure what hydrotherapy is, exactly, Adrian.
But, yes, they do have magical mystery hosptials which house BOTH psychiatry and cardiology.
But, yes, they do have magical mystery hosptials which house BOTH psychiatry and cardiology.
Hydrotherapy is mostly used for rehabilitation of limb injuries.
It's not that those three wouldn't all be in the same hospital, that is common in most places, but the book makes a point that the hospital's two specialities are cardiology and psychiatry. Which is daft - except in the context of this film ...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"But that's the whole point, it's supernatural, these things happen.
It's not supposed to be realistic in that sense."
"But that's the whole point, it's supernatural, these things happen.
It's not supposed to be realistic in that sense."
#32
Christian
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Posted 11 February 2005 - 12:36 AM
Oh, damn! So we really don't have magical mystery hospitals over here....
But, they still only have 4 nurses working in the entire place!
I was wondering....I was thinking that over in Britain you had special hospitals for everything!
"Well, he had a heart attack. Cart him off to the Cardiology Hospital!"
But, they still only have 4 nurses working in the entire place!
I was wondering....I was thinking that over in Britain you had special hospitals for everything!
"Well, he had a heart attack. Cart him off to the Cardiology Hospital!"
"We are peaceful people, we only want your dog."
-Everittstown, NJ CE3 (11/06/57)
-Everittstown, NJ CE3 (11/06/57)
#33
jpshirley2005
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Posted 11 February 2005 - 10:29 PM
Warlord is not the name of the demon, it's a sort of code name being used by humans...
Glad some people find the novelization rewarding...
Glad some people find the novelization rewarding...
#34
andy
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Posted 12 February 2005 - 06:19 PM
QUOTE (jpshirley2005 @ Feb 11 2005, 03:29 PM)
Glad some people find the novelization rewarding...
I enjoyed the novelization for what it was. I smiled at the soliloquy lifted straight from Ellis' Haunted with just 'London" changed to "L.A." I would like to see that in the movie but I doubt it will be.
HAPPY IS HE WHO RENOUNCED THE WORLD BEFORE THE WORLD RENOUNCED HIM.
From the Mausoleum of Timur the Lame
From the Mausoleum of Timur the Lame
#35
James
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Posted 12 February 2005 - 06:32 PM
An adapted version of Ellis' monologue was used at the end of the shooting script. It's not as good as the one in Haunted though. Dunno if it's the same one in the novelisation, either.
"Omar comin'!"
#36
jpshirley2005
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 09:57 PM
Actually we do have hospitals here which have a psychiatric wing and the rest of the hospital is some medical specialty...local community needs or something...but I just went with the script...
#37
Qusoor
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Posted 14 February 2005 - 12:43 AM
QUOTE (Christian @ Feb 10 2005, 01:39 AM)
Not really sure what hydrotherapy is, exactly, Adrian.
Hydrotherapy is an old (~100 years) way of calming the mentally disturbed. Certain mental illnesses are soothed by being immersed in moving water. I believe the theory is that with the entire bidy undergoing sensation, the brain is too busy interpreting the data to freak out.
John Goodrich
www.qusoor.com/hellblazer
'Beating people up in little rooms. . . hew knew where that led. And if you did it for a good reason, you'd do it for a bad one. You couldn't say "we're the good guys" and do bad guy things.' --Terry Pratchett, THUD!
Avatar courtesy of Mel: http://www.livejourn...=chn_breathmint
www.qusoor.com/hellblazer
'Beating people up in little rooms. . . hew knew where that led. And if you did it for a good reason, you'd do it for a bad one. You couldn't say "we're the good guys" and do bad guy things.' --Terry Pratchett, THUD!
Avatar courtesy of Mel: http://www.livejourn...=chn_breathmint
#38
Christian
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Posted 14 February 2005 - 01:44 AM
Looking in the dictionary, it seems that hydrotherapy applies to any type of ailment. They also used it to attempt to cure diseases.
Adrian appears to be right that is used for rehabilitation of limb injuries today.
Adrian appears to be right that is used for rehabilitation of limb injuries today.
"We are peaceful people, we only want your dog."
-Everittstown, NJ CE3 (11/06/57)
-Everittstown, NJ CE3 (11/06/57)
#39
Pansy
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Posted 14 February 2005 - 02:24 AM
QUOTE (jpshirley2005 @ Feb 11 2005, 10:29 PM)
Warlord is not the name of the demon, it's a sort of code name being used by humans...
Glad some people find the novelization rewarding...
Glad some people find the novelization rewarding...
Hi John Shirley,
I just finished reading your novelization, and I found it pretty good. It's so interesting that you infused each character - however minor - with a wealth of background and motivations. I like especially what you did with Gabriel's motivations in the end - and how you explained one concept that was puzzling to me in the movie (I thought he was pure archangel....I didn't know he was half-breed.)
I also liked what you did with the scavenger...you gave him a name - Francisco! Great!
It was really great how much you read into the script, which couldn't have offered that many clues.
I would have liked to have seen Ellie in the movie - unfortunately she was cut out of every scene except for the one in the end. But pretty much of what you described did end up in the actual film.
All in all, it is very superior writing. Just curious, how long did it take you to write this? Was it easy? Did you have to sift through production notes? Compare stills? Look at set drawings?
#40
Pansy
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Posted 14 February 2005 - 02:31 AM
Oh, and John Shirley, I thought your descriptions of the characters was also spot on, with the exception of Constantine himself. What you wrote about him had me imagining - if I hadn't seen the movie - a hard-bitten, world-weary Sam Spade type of character, pale as a ghost and unkempt as yesterday's Salvation Army rejects.
In the movie, however, Keanu Reeves is sharply-dressed, slicked and wears expensively tailored clothes. I didn't think he was that pale (no paler than Neo) and he's so pretty he probably wouldn't have Angela (as you described) thinking of him as merely "vaguely appealing." Oh no, this is one visual character who would have most every woman - tough cop, half-breed demon or not - swooning at his feet. This is the best I have seen him look since 1999's Matrix.
In the movie, however, Keanu Reeves is sharply-dressed, slicked and wears expensively tailored clothes. I didn't think he was that pale (no paler than Neo) and he's so pretty he probably wouldn't have Angela (as you described) thinking of him as merely "vaguely appealing." Oh no, this is one visual character who would have most every woman - tough cop, half-breed demon or not - swooning at his feet. This is the best I have seen him look since 1999's Matrix.