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A. Heathen

Dare Devil - Criminal Intent

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slinker    893

Episode 2 was the one that snared me. It's my favorite of season 1. But it's not like the quality went down after it. It maintained its excitement and storytelling throughout.

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Red    467

Vincent d'Onofrio totally owns the whole series so far.

 

Anyway, I always thought Punisher was a quite boring character, but he might work in the DD TV series. They've aced it so far, so I have faith.

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Red    467

Hells yes! I really like the idea of the Punisher as villain.

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Red    467

Since he straight up murders people he really IS a villain.

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wolvy    58

I don't think he's going to be a straight up villain, but more like Charles Bronson from Death Wish.

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Lou K    1,084

I think most guys that rock a mustache and only a mustache are up to no good. I mean, just look at Paul Snider

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St. Apathy    141

I don't think he's going to be a straight up villain, but more like Charles Bronson from Death Wish.

Never seen it but I expect he'll be a tragic figure with noble qualities while decidedly being an antagonist.

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Christian    783

Which is pretty much how the Punisher was written in his first appearance, only even more sympathetically.

 

I noticed someone said that the Punisher was really written as a villain in his first appearances in the comics, but that's inaccurate.

In his very first appearance, Amazing Spider Man #129, the Jackal was portrayed as the actual villain. Punisher was clearly made to have been fooled by the Jackal in to going after Spider Man. Jackal convinced Punisher that Spider Man purposely killed the Staceys, and Punisher took of kill Spider Man as a vendetta. He explicitly states that he only hunts those who deserve it in dialogue, and the reader is meant to accept him as an anti-hero. At the end of the story, Spider Man convinces Punisher that he was tricked by the Jackal, and the Jackal is actually a murderer. Punisher realizes that Jackal has set up himself to take the fall for a murder committed by the Jackal, and swears to get vengeance on Jackal. The two main characters part with an uneasy alliance.

His second appearance is close to the same. He thinks Spider Man is working with the villain of the story, Tarantula, so the two initially fight. They realize they're both after the Tarantula, and so work together to beat him. At the end of the story, Punisher shows respect for Spider Man.

The closest he was ever written to a villain was during some appearances in the early-1980s, where he was portrayed as completely mentally instable and in need of help. Which was quickly ret-conned when Punisher got his own comic series shortly thereafter.

The character was already being portrayed as simply a protagonist even within the 1970s, as he had a few solo appearances in Marvel's magazines of the period, including the first telling of his origin, wherein his actions are attempted to be better explained by his own tragic past.

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wolvy    58

Jon Berthnal mentioned that in first two episode we likely won't like him. He's going to be extremely fucked up and most of his action's will seem pretty terrible to people who don't know his history. But, as it goes on we will likely start to like him and understand his point of view.

 

From what I've seen is that Frank is going to appear fucked up and sadistic on the outside, while actually doing things for a noble cause. Elektra will seem like a charming "likeable" character, but will actually be doing things that are pretty evil.

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dogpoet    487

The closest he was ever written to a villain was during some appearances in the early-1980s, where he was portrayed as completely mentally instable and in need of help. Which was quickly ret-conned when Punisher got his own comic series shortly thereafter.

I think it went a bit further than that in the Frank Miller Daredevil, iirc: didn't Miller make a point of stressing that Bullseye broke out of prison and killed Elektra mostly because Castle told him that Fisk had replaced him with her, and wouldn't rescue him if he kept his nose clean?

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wolvy    58

 

Here's part 2 showing Elektra and The Hand. It looks like shits going to get hit the fan even harder next month. Matt will have to deal with The Punisher, The Yakuza, The Hand and Elektra.

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St. Apathy    141

I'm not overly fond of the second season.

 

 

Punisher is great, but he mostly appears to be here to be something Matt is seldom involved in after the first few episodes, driving a wedge with Foggy and Karen, and as a world building tool. Doesn't nearly fit in as well as, say, Luke Cage does on JJ.

 

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wolvy    58

I loved it, but I feel like the first 4 episodes were pretty much the best ones. After that, the show feels like it lost focus a bit.

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Red    467

I loved it, but I feel like the first 4 episodes were pretty much the best ones. After that, the show feels like it lost focus a bit.

I kind of agree. The main problem, I think, is that the whole part with [ Spoiler : the Hand took a lot of time to really kick into gear, and that they handled the introduction of Elektra quite badly. We weren't rellay given much of a reason to like her or be interested in her until after several episodes. She became a lot more interesting when we got more of her backstory, so it turned out good, but it sort of stuttered a bit in the middle. ]

 

That said, every single scene with[ Spoiler : d'Onofrios Kingpin ] was worth the entire season for me.

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JohnMcMahon    587

Those last two episodes really stunk the place out for me, [ Spoiler : see you around red! ] - oh do fuck off!

 

Gross abuse of the [ Spoiler : 'getting the band back together' ] phrase too - [ Spoiler : should signify the intro of some badass motherfuckers, not a couple of goons who die 10 seconds after their first appearance ].

 

[ Spoiler : You're a New Yorker. You're a hero! ].

 

Stop. Just stop.

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