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JohnMcMahon

Has NBC ruined 'Constantine' by straightwashing its protagonist?

  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. Well ?

    • Yes!
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    • No!
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I would prefer someone who is bisexual to answer please because we straight Hellblazer fans don't get it according to the bisexual Hellblazer fans. but since it has reached the point of boycotting the show which in all likelihood will kill it before its first season is done airing,

I think you wildly overestimate the power and cohesiveness of the bisexual community.

 

Yeah, they can't even agree on who is attractive !

 

A reductionist answer is this: "What are you rebelling against? What have you got?"

 

ie they have a case, their minority is under-represented, mis-represented and otherwise poorly served on television shows.

It's rather gratuitous to change this, other than from a moralistic perspective.

 

So it's fair enough that people are simplifying this argument to the ungaying of a main character

rather than taking into account context such as we know from the published story.

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I think my whole beef is that he has some (what I would consider) more important aspects of the character then who or what he shags or if he smokes. The manipulator. The con man. The kiss of death. The let down. The angler (think Tom Reagan in Miller's Crossing). These are the things that I want to see out of a small screen adaptation.

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I reckon that's what most people will want.

The best thing the NBC folks can do is roll with it and maybe bring it up at some point later, but find more positive ways to bring up that it's not going to be a major plot point.

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The manipulator. The con man. The kiss of death. The let down. The angler (think Tom Reagan in Miller's Crossing). These are the things that I want to see out of a small screen adaptation.

Most, if not all, of these are present in the pilot mind.

 

Miller's Crossing is a fucking boss film.

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I did not see the pilot yet. That is good to hear.

 

I just don't quite grasp the "I've never read Hellblazer but if they don't make John a queer WE RIOT!!!" angle.

 

But I am a straight white male so what do I know?

 

*rapes planet Earth*

 

Gabriel Byrne should play Ric the Vic.

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I think my whole beef is that he has some (what I would consider) more important aspects of the character then who or what he shags or if he smokes. The manipulator. The con man. The kiss of death. The let down. The angler (think Tom Reagan in Miller's Crossing). These are the things that I want to see out of a small screen adaptation.

 

that's exactly right, but this collection of people literally de4fine themselves by who they fuck. they are educated but they aren't smart, the ones i've been dealing with. they can talk circles around me except for the disconnect that the only time we ever saw john as a bi, he was as deviant as any other "negative cliche". they don't understand that and then go to #51, thinking that since it;s sandwiched in Ennis' run, he wrote it and that's canon. which makes John their character, not ours, when hellblazer has never been about "hi, I'm john and i'll fuck anyone in my bed." sexuality was only explored to any real degree by delano with zed and Marj and ennis with kit. then azz does his stupid story and "look, he's doing it, he's kissing a guy!" mmhmmm, and know what happens to that guy? he dies! "That's not important, they still kiss and have sex." They have hateful horrible sex, the kind you lot say you're tired of being portrayed as! if this tiger and i go round the tree many more times, we will most surely turn into butter. I'm done with the debate. John's bisexual in the book , but not on TV and because of interacting with willfully disconnected peoplke who wish to stay that way, then HA HA He;s straight now! You don't get to claim him anymore, good luck next time. And i say this prepared for the flaming to come. I have many homosexual friends and a few bi friends. My homosexual friends, lesbians and blokes on blokes, and they can't stand bisexuals. I always found that to be ironic or something didn't fit, but now I understand why homosexuals aren't into bisexuals. My dear friend from college has observed this phenomenon and said "I told you! They aren't even good for pillow talk. If I accidentally on purpose wind up with one, i will push him out the door before he even gets dressed and before he says something stupid."Homosexuals are biphobic, and because of the past week or so, I'm ok with that. I think...i definitely get on better with homosexuals than the bisexuals, that much is clear. i also deleted my tumblr page today. I barely posted on it but you have to have a page to read tumblr, or you did when I got on a few years ago. tumblr can burn to trhe ground for all i care. i'll miss all those memes and gifs, but it's ok.

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here's somebody saying they should boycott it.

 

http://aiulbones.tum...ing-constantine

 

it's the post above being reblogged over and over. but i know i saw another one or two.

 

If it makes you any happier, what percentage of those people would have even heard of/wanted to watch the show in the first place?

 

And even then they're just a drop in the ocean to the kind of audience you need on a channel like NBC, especially with that budget. Every little helps, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

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but have you ever observed a boycott like that before. sometimes the threat of one will turn networks and advertisers into frightened babies and they kneejerk a response like pulling the show before it airs. there was something like that within the past decade but my broken brain can't recall it. but i remember the uproar.

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Guest Nick Neko

It was probably something that reached a wider audience so they got a wider amount of people interested.

It's not as if every bi-sexual person is going to drop everything and boycott some TV show they've never heard of.

 

Based on what I know, some homosexuals have a problem with bi-sexuality because they feel it takes away from being gay because it gives the idea that a gay person could just sleep with the opposite sex if they really wanted to, and also because a bi-sexual person can get involved in a long-term straight relationship, where they'd be accepted by the wider society, they claim that bi-sexual individuals don't face the same oppression from society as homosexuality

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that's right, but you know how some queens are. they have to be all dramatic or give it a name. I grew north of san francisco where i hung out and went to school, which is sort of the flagship for homosexuality and i live in north texas which has the largest population of homosexuals in the country, well the DFW area does. and we sort of gravitate to each other, every place i've lived, i hit the gay bars when i first get there because someone will always buy me a drink, and if i don't know the lay of the land, i will get it in a way which i won't forget, and make several friends in the process. i love gay people which is why this whole bisexual turmoil bothers me. i can easily get on the same level with gay people and talk about anything candidly, like I don't have to "watch my language". not with bisexuals. oh my god, i would slip up and say the wrong thing and suddenly i was kirk and mccoy in front of the klingons in star trek 6. so anyone who thinks bisexuals and homosexuals are the same thing are way off base. i knew that, but never experienced just how drastically this younger generation of them are. i'm sorry, but I've never met a more defensive group of people in my life. It's easier for me to relate to a "trucker lesbian" who hates men than to a 20 yr old bisexual. I'm not criticizing them for anything except for being too sensitive and clumping together. they seem to enjoy piling on or ganging up on an enemy, which i experienced first hand. it's not particularly fair, but they are young and i guess it's almost like a gang mentality. i'm sure some sociologist has collected enough data on them to be of use, but not me. I went in blind and came out scarred.

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If you're talking about on the internet, that "gang mentality" exists on every web-site. Any where you go, if it's a site dedicated to one thing, and you don't share those views, you're going to get attacked by a lot of people. It's a part of why the internet has grown so exclusionist with politics. It's easy to find those of like-minded, and then, those of like mind gang up on those who don't share their views who try to get involved. Personally, I'd just avoid places where I don't belong. Arguing is some thing for younger people, is how I feel. I just don't have the energy to get in arguments with those I don't agree with at this point in my life.

Basically, if someone came on here and said, "Hellblazer is an occult book that shouldn't exist. It's against the Bible. You're all going to Hell if you read it." First, they'd be stupid for bothering to join a Hellblazer web-site to state that. Secondly, I'm sure they'd get ganged up on by us fans of HB for being intolerant and ignorant.

I see that mentality all the time on the internet. Web-sites for guys and gals who like BBWs, BHM, and bears have people coming on them and saying, "Fat people are a disgusting! I hope you all die of heart attacks!". I don't even embellish this.

Which is an extreme point, as the person in question deserves to be ganged up on....

So, basically, my point is that if you're going to a site dedicated to bi-sexuality and saying some thing they don't agree with, yeah, there's every chance you'll get ganged up on.

 

The bi-sexual folks I've met in real life haven't really been prone to sharing their sexuality.

I've met gay males that I just didn't get along with. But, I know a hell of a lot of straight people I don't get along with. There are just people out there that I don't get along with, of all races, cultures, sexes, genders, beliefs, creeds....

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this was tumblr though which is a hodge podge of everything.

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I have not really gotten into tumblr, but the sites I have seen are pretty much a forum built around posted images and articles, or a network of blogs created by like-minded individuals. I think the internet just gravitates to small groups of people who mostly agree with each other.

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It absolutely does. I suppose it's just tribalism made easy.

 

Bizarrely, one of the more trenchant comments about that was in the (mostly quite awful) ending of Metal Gear Solid 2.

 

In the current, digitized world, trivial information is accumulating every second, preserved in all its triteness. Never fading, always accessible. Rumors about petty issues, misinterpretations, slander... all this junk data, preserved in an unfiltered state, growing at an alarming rate.

...

The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards development of convenient half-truths. Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum. They stay inside their little ponds, leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large.

 

Impressively prophetic for 2001. More bizarrely, these words are spoken by the villain (a sentient censorship algorithm).

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Dude, get over it.

 

Or wait till it has more than 100,000 signatures before you freak out.

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no, i'm not freaking out anymore, but it is pertinent to the nature of the thread, is it not?

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Aye, all right. Sorry!

 

EDIT: And I asked for a link earlier on anyway, making me a double twat.

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no worries. i was freaked out a couple of days ago, but i've been talked down. no problems now.

i'm on my meds, see?

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I think the internet just gravitates to small groups of people who mostly agree with each other.

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

No it doesn't.

 

That's only two people,

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The petition text states the following (my emphasis, Eliel's typos) :

 

In the comic books, Constantine alludes to past relationships with both women and men and is periodically depicted leaving the bed of male lovers. But NBC's Constatine, played by Matt Ryan, doesn't have any same-sex dates on his dance card at the moment, it seems.

 

And while Cerone is right in noting a few instances where Constantine was seen getting out of bed with a man, it was more than just "one or two issues." Thoroughout the comic, Constantine alludes to more than just a few sexual encounters with someone of the same sex.

 

 

The bolded statements are simply false.

 

Sad-ass petitions like this one undermine the credibility of genuine attempts to do good in our society. They lower the signal-to-noise ratio.

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