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A. Heathen

Constantine S01E09: "The Saint of Last Resorts" pt2

  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. Your marks out of 10 for Constantine S01E09, please...

    • 1 - Mexican't
      0
    • 2 - Messican
      0
    • 3 - Mex do
      1
    • 4 - Last of the Mejicans
      0
    • 5 - Mexed feelings
      2
    • 6 - Mexican hat dance
      0
    • 7 - Mexican stand off
      1
    • 8 - Mexican jumping bean
      6
    • 9 - Mexorcist
      1
    • 10 - XX Mex Gets Mexcited
      2


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pretty badass, like that they're starting to develop the more negative parts of conj's personality. any word on ratings?

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i actually liked the episode. a little disappointed that anne marie is still alive, but we will come to that later i suppose.

the interaction between anne marie and the other characters especially chas was nice throughout both episodes. i liked that they didn't have those supderderpy artifacts (like the fucking crystal on a wristband, which looked ridiculous). Think they could've written around the appearance of yet another demon (the snakehead) and that tibetian dagger alltogether, to make it a little less stuffed and you know control the speed of the plot a bit better. I mean the Ivunche and johns possession would've been enough imo. the tranquilizer was a wee silly (but someone pointed that out already, or did you not?) and that resurection crusade dude was way to dumb to be a muscle for such jobs, but eh :shrug: it had to happen that way for the sake of the story.

but to close out i liked a lot about it, the possession was played out nice, not too cliche and not too trashy. the interaction as mentioned was really really nice. the prison thing played out to be actually well done too and it was interesting to see zed playing her strength due to being from mexico and feelling all home there, tough to anne marie and then somewhat helpless during the exorcism.

 

what i did not get really: so does anne marie now feel guilt or anger towards john?

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I think the real moral of the episode is that Efren Ramirez is turning into Dave Grohl

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I think the real moral of the episode is that Efren Ramirez is turning into Dave Grohl

So there was a reason to vote for Pedro after all?

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After the episode finished, I remarked to my wife (as non-spoilery as I could, since she could care less about the comics) that I was really surprised Anne Marie made it to the end of the episode. I fully expected the Invunche to reappear to take care of business.

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After the episode finished, I remarked to my wife (as non-spoilery as I could, since she could care less about the comics) that I was really surprised Anne Marie made it to the end of the episode. I fully expected the Invunche to reappear to take care of business.

 

I was expecting it too. I beginning to think we would've had her, Judith and Ritchie dead by Ep. 22 had things went in our favor

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I feel quietly blessed to witness this show. Not only is the script tight, light and understanding of the character and actually building on the best ideas in the best Constantine stories, but Matt Ryan carries the shit out of it on his back. He has the small gestures and attitude down, makes everything exciting to watch, loaded with Constantine magic just right.. thank you to all people involved in making it. Holy Shit Hallelujah

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Yeah, that was great. Especially since one was twitching.

 

I think my main problem boils down to one thing: I just cannot stand the dialogue. I really can't. I know we're all supposed to be giving the show the benefit of all doubts, especially with the Big C looming, and I know I'm always being Mr Grumbles The Comic Book Guy, but I've been wincing my way through basically every episode, and if I try to smile and nod and studiously avoid being a Negative Nancy for much longer I'm not likely to survive.

 

But let's admit it, I'm not criticising something they've put blood-sweating amounts of effort into, am I? Because aside from the occasional John Quip, they don't seem to care about it. This is true of pretty much all the episodes, but this one was the worst for it. The plotting's good, and they have great character ideas, but when it comes to actually delivering those ideas, they just... deliver those ideas. In the blandest possible fashion, and usually by just flat-out telling you them. Or in the case of this episode, shouting them at you. Because that's how you do drama: take a summary, and shout it.

 

The best example is the dialogue between Zed and Anne-Marie about why she's having trouble exorcising John: the big climactic emotional catharsis moment, and the entire scene's like listening to the people in the writing room pitching concepts, with their words divided randomly among the characters. I've complained from the beginning of the show that everything's always so blatantly spelled out all the time, and I had assumed it was the classic television thing of assuming the audience are idiots. But I'm starting to think it's more that they just can't be fucked. Ah, good enough for TV.

 

Perhaps I'd enjoy the show more with the sound switched off. It is pretty much the only thing I dislike about it; everything else is fine. This one problem is just a big deal for me, and I'm surely not the one crazy person who thinks this way. For an adaptation of a comic whose main defining feature was its voice, this show doesn't seem to have any interest whatsoever in developing one. John's the only character in the whole thing who doesn't speak in tired television cliches 100% of the time, and even he manages to sit around 80%. They might as well just have the characters say "television television television" all the time and have done with it.

 

Or they should hire someone to do the dialogue. I've never seen a show that would benefit more from that. Everything else is in place; if they can just make us glad when people open their mouths*, they'll have a great show.

 

*this is not a forbidden concept; every single TV show that people actually care about or remember does it

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Yeah, that was great. Especially since one was twitching.

 

I think my main problem boils down to one thing: I just cannot stand the dialogue. I really can't. I know we're all supposed to be giving the show the benefit of all doubts, especially with the Big C looming, and I know I'm always being Mr Grumbles The Comic Book Guy, but I've been wincing my way through basically every episode, and if I try to smile and nod and studiously avoid being a Negative Nancy for much longer I'm not likely to survive.

 

But let's admit it, I'm not criticising something they've put blood-sweating amounts of effort into, am I? Because aside from the occasional John Quip, they don't seem to care about it. This is true of pretty much all the episodes, but this one was the worst for it. The plotting's good, and they have great character ideas, but when it comes to actually delivering those ideas, they just... deliver those ideas. In the blandest possible fashion, and usually by just flat-out telling you them. Or in the case of this episode, shouting them at you. Because that's how you do drama: take a summary, and shout it.

 

The best example is the dialogue between Zed and Anne-Marie about why she's having trouble exorcising John: the big climactic emotional catharsis moment, and the entire scene's like listening to the people in the writing room pitching concepts, with their words divided randomly among the characters. I've complained from the beginning of the show that everything's always so blatantly spelled out all the time, and I had assumed it was the classic television thing of assuming the audience are idiots. But I'm starting to think it's more that they just can't be fucked. Ah, good enough for TV.

 

Perhaps I'd enjoy the show more with the sound switched off. It is pretty much the only thing I dislike about it; everything else is fine. This one problem is just a big deal for me, and I'm surely not the one crazy person who thinks this way. For an adaptation of a comic whose main defining feature was its voice, this show doesn't seem to have any interest whatsoever in developing one. John's the only character in the whole thing who doesn't speak in tired television cliches 100% of the time, and even he manages to sit around 80%. They might as well just have the characters say "television television television" all the time and have done with it.

 

Or they should hire someone to do the dialogue. I've never seen a show that would benefit more from that. Everything else is in place; if they can just make us glad when people open their mouths*, they'll have a great show.

 

*this is not a forbidden concept; every single TV show that people actually care about or remember does it

I agree with some instances but disagree on others.

 

Hellblazer in my experience wasn't exactly "Mr. Never-Cliche-Jay". Most of it derived from how John spoke when talking to people like any other normal guy you'd find on the streets of England. But it's when he monologues is when he begins to sound like something from a Shakespeare-esque character floating around in his head. I just didn't find it to make sense that his inner monologues were filled with this intricate style of speaking with punctuation and deep philosophical wording, but when he actually talks, it sounds like he's just some down to earth guy who doesn't think any further then now. I know it might be a way to con people around him to make them think he's not anything special but he talks like this when he's alone or with Chas or people he loves.

 

Then more issues came out and the monologuing started to lower on that style of speaking and becoming more sensible, but even then, it became more-so the brooding melodramatic kind of speaking with the cliched negative Nancy attitude. Something you'd find in the diary of a goth kid whose sick of life. I know it's a reflection of John's life but that didn't excuse it from being pretty emo cliched even back then.

 

And then came the final comics where all deepness went out the window for most of the dialogue and inner monologuing and sadly I think this is where NBC's Constantine is following. Most of the dialogue in this show reminds me of something you'd see in comic books, which is where it's originated from. And not the deep, dark, and Shakespeare talk of the first Hellblazers under Alan Moore, but more so the cliched comic book style of the Hellblazers of the Milligan run and the DC NU 52 Constantines. But the difference in NBC's Constantine and DC's NU52 Constantine is that NBC's doesn't completely throw HB out the window. We could've actually gotten worse then this. We could've gotten completely NU52 John Constantine and stories mixed with Milligan's hand from the last Hellblazer issues by him put together and have...a big mess. We could've also had another Keanu Reevers movie of black haired John who spoke slow and obnoxiously with a disinterest in anything.

 

Yeah NBC's dialogue is pretty cliche in some areas but it could've been worse. You ever seen the Blade TV series? There's a reason it was canceled and most of the fanbase hates it. WIth NBC's Constantine, they have John being this normal guy with much knowledge on shaby magic, the smoking, the dangers of not only demons but humans as well, and the messages of not all ways believing blindly without seeing with your own eyes. SO you gotta give it props for the show not being as bad as it could've been.

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You're absolutely right. Get someone in who can write good dialogue that is snappy, funny and moving when it needs to be and the show would improve immensely.

 

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SB- it's admirable you're so positive about the show, but there's better writing in stuff aimed at preventing-schoolers. It needs sharpening up a lot as it really lets the show down.

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SB- it's admirable you're so positive about the show, but there's better writing in stuff aimed at preventing-schoolers. It needs sharpening up a lot as it really lets the show down.

Well from where I stand, it's not the pits of a comic adaption. Like I said, there's a reason why the blade tv series was canceled and no one in the fanbase liked it.

 

Also I'm not SUPER positive over the show right now. I was behind it all the way because I wanted something better to watch then Supernatural.

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See, I don't want it compared to a shit show & looking good- I want it compared to a GREAT show and holding its own.

 

There's lines from The X-Files and Buffy and Farscape I can remember from the original transmission because they were so good. The only memorable lines in Constantine are taken from the comic.

 

Hopefully this is something that will improve in time.

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lets just rephrase this to: if the have to think: money for an extra dialogue writer, or money for another useless demon-fx-shit. go for the writer.

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Yeah, that was great. Especially since one was twitching.

 

I think my main problem boils down to one thing: I just cannot stand the dialogue. I really can't. I know we're all supposed to be giving the show the benefit of all doubts, especially with the Big C looming, and I know I'm always being Mr Grumbles The Comic Book Guy, but I've been wincing my way through basically every episode, and if I try to smile and nod and studiously avoid being a Negative Nancy for much longer I'm not likely to survive.

 

But let's admit it, I'm not criticising something they've put blood-sweating amounts of effort into, am I? Because aside from the occasional John Quip, they don't seem to care about it. This is true of pretty much all the episodes, but this one was the worst for it. The plotting's good, and they have great character ideas, but when it comes to actually delivering those ideas, they just... deliver those ideas. In the blandest possible fashion, and usually by just flat-out telling you them. Or in the case of this episode, shouting them at you. Because that's how you do drama: take a summary, and shout it.

 

The best example is the dialogue between Zed and Anne-Marie about why she's having trouble exorcising John: the big climactic emotional catharsis moment, and the entire scene's like listening to the people in the writing room pitching concepts, with their words divided randomly among the characters. I've complained from the beginning of the show that everything's always so blatantly spelled out all the time, and I had assumed it was the classic television thing of assuming the audience are idiots. But I'm starting to think it's more that they just can't be fucked. Ah, good enough for TV.

 

Perhaps I'd enjoy the show more with the sound switched off. It is pretty much the only thing I dislike about it; everything else is fine. This one problem is just a big deal for me, and I'm surely not the one crazy person who thinks this way. For an adaptation of a comic whose main defining feature was its voice, this show doesn't seem to have any interest whatsoever in developing one. John's the only character in the whole thing who doesn't speak in tired television cliches 100% of the time, and even he manages to sit around 80%. They might as well just have the characters say "television television television" all the time and have done with it.

 

Or they should hire someone to do the dialogue. I've never seen a show that would benefit more from that. Everything else is in place; if they can just make us glad when people open their mouths*, they'll have a great show.

 

*this is not a forbidden concept; every single TV show that people actually care about or remember does it

I agree with some instances but disagree on others.

 

Hellblazer in my experience wasn't exactly "Mr. Never-Cliche-Jay". Most of it derived from how John spoke when talking to people like any other normal guy you'd find on the streets of England. But it's when he monologues is when he begins to sound like something from a Shakespeare-esque character floating around in his head. I just didn't find it to make sense that his inner monologues were filled with this intricate style of speaking with punctuation and deep philosophical wording, but when he actually talks, it sounds like he's just some down to earth guy who doesn't think any further then now. I know it might be a way to con people around him to make them think he's not anything special but he talks like this when he's alone or with Chas or people he loves.

 

Then more issues came out and the monologuing started to lower on that style of speaking and becoming more sensible, but even then, it became more-so the brooding melodramatic kind of speaking with the cliched negative Nancy attitude. Something you'd find in the diary of a goth kid whose sick of life. I know it's a reflection of John's life but that didn't excuse it from being pretty emo cliched even back then.

 

And then came the final comics where all deepness went out the window for most of the dialogue and inner monologuing and sadly I think this is where NBC's Constantine is following. Most of the dialogue in this show reminds me of something you'd see in comic books, which is where it's originated from. And not the deep, dark, and Shakespeare talk of the first Hellblazers under Alan Moore, but more so the cliched comic book style of the Hellblazers of the Milligan run and the DC NU 52 Constantines. But the difference in NBC's Constantine and DC's NU52 Constantine is that NBC's doesn't completely throw HB out the window. We could've actually gotten worse then this. We could've gotten completely NU52 John Constantine and stories mixed with Milligan's hand from the last Hellblazer issues by him put together and have...a big mess. We could've also had another Keanu Reevers movie of black haired John who spoke slow and obnoxiously with a disinterest in anything.

 

Yeah NBC's dialogue is pretty cliche in some areas but it could've been worse. You ever seen the Blade TV series? There's a reason it was canceled and most of the fanbase hates it. WIth NBC's Constantine, they have John being this normal guy with much knowledge on shaby magic, the smoking, the dangers of not only demons but humans as well, and the messages of not all ways believing blindly without seeing with your own eyes. SO you gotta give it props for the show not being as bad as it could've been.

 

Not Spike's finest hour. Nor Goyer and Johns come to that.

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If the show does indeed survive to a see a second season, I would hope that the creators would take some chances on a few non-FX driven stories. I can't imagine it would ever happen, since flashy demon magic is what a lot of people are watching for, but seeing stories along the lines of "Shoot" or "Counting to Ten" would be nice. Hell, I think "Freezes Over" and the Family Man arc would make for incredible episodes, but I know the producers would have to throw special effect magic in there somewhere.

 

That said, I am happy with what the show's produced so far.

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Yeah, we should expect better, but I'll settle for better than a lot of the competition (1st season at least).

 

Some of what is pinned as bad dialog is, I would say, often down to the actors rather than the writers. Constantine and Chas have consistently good conversations, Zed and many of the supporting cast less so (all the nuns in the two parter struggled including Ann Marie except when she was talking with John and Chas), but Zed's improving. Manny has too much exposition and yet has nailed certain moments without speaking so for that I'll let the writers take the blame. Felix Faust had no problems.

 

I am in total agreement that we need more episodes that are free of magical artefacts and demons.

Waiting For The Man should be like that.

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yep zeds definetly improving and i am forgiving her the most, given that she was a soap opera actor and i have not a lot of regards for those.

 

i also think it is a symbiosis of the writers and the actors. the longer the show runs, the better the writers know, what kind of dialogue their actors can pull off. but you know, if we pull the actors into it, the directors are to blame equally (its their fucking job at last).

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