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Constantine: The Hellblazer Relaunch

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I'm waiting for the furry community to demand equal representation as well.

 

i had some run ins with those folks in the past.it'll be awhile before people become okay with that,i can vouch for this

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I'm waiting for the furry community to demand equal representation as well.

 

i had some run ins with those folks in the past.it'll be awhile before people become okay with that,i can vouch for this

I think its safe to assume people will NEVER be okay with that.

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so assuming we never master space travel to the point we can settle somewhere else and assuming we do not destroy ourselves. human live will be impossible on earth in three billion years. so never is a really bold thing to say :tongue:

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People sleep around in real life.

John Constantine isn't supposed to be a role model.

If you think John being promiscous is the same thing as Azzarello's portrayal of bisexuality as something creepy, then you need to really wake up, and wonder what you want this book to represent.

People sleeping around is not something that should be considered "creepy".

John stole a wallet. Does that mean that bisexual people are thieves? Do we need to watch everything John does and says to make sure that it's acceptable, so that bisexual folks don't get a bad reputation? Is that what this book is about?

Is showing heterosexual people sleeping around giving a bad message about heterosexuality? Should we only have moral fiction that promotes monogamous sexuality?

If not, why is a bisexual character, who is shown to reject society's morality, seen as a bad thing?

I don't want John to be some progressive political point about how great bisexual people are, I want a John Constantine who doesn't care about morality. He fucks who he wants because he wants to fuck.

If that's all you want this version of John Constantine to be, then I'd rather side with those who'd rather John's sexuality not even be addressed.

 

I have always preferred monogamous relationships, myself.

I want to live vicariously through John Constantine. I want a character who flys in the face of everything considered acceptable by society. I want a transgressive character in this comic.

 

Also, you're looking at Hellblazer, which started when John was in his 30s. This version of John Constantine is younger. Based on what we know of John's days before Hellblazer started, you get the idea that he was promiscuous.

Which makes sense. People are more likely to experiment sexually when they're in their 20s, but by the time they're in their 30s, they're more willing to settle down with one partner and try to carve out a life together.

In his younger days, he was in a punk rock band, he experimented with drugs. I doubt he wasn't sleeping around.

The only actual relationship we know of before Hellblazer started, really, was Emma (from Moore's Swamp Thing), and that was portrayed as an open, long-distance relationship.

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Oh, and to keep on my recurring theme about a romantic anti-hero ideal, like an Oscar Wilde character, he's a quote from the man, himself.

-'Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people we personally dislike.'

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Oh, and to keep on my recurring theme about a romantic anti-hero ideal, like an Oscar Wilde character, he's a quote from the man, himself.

-'Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people we personally dislike.'

 

true...except the reason that he was portrayed so openly bisexual was to appease lgbt folks in the first place.bad marketing move.

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Only for the politically correct crowd. The rest will either just be happy to see a bisexual main character, or they will find living vicariously through the character enticing.

If as a straight person, I can find the thought of living vicariously through John Constantine's sexuality, I'm sure a lot of bisexual people will be happy to do the same.

The character is a black magician. He's the Christian fundies dream of everything that will go wrong with the world if homosexuality is acceptable. We'll have lots of amoral people who practice black magic running around. He's never been a role model. He's an outsider type character. That's what draws me to the character, and I'm sure that's what draws 98% of readers to the character.

LGBT people never had a problem with the fact that John Constantine was referred to a few times as bisexual but only slept with women during the entirety of Hellblazer.

Plus, I don't think this book is being marketed to the LGBT market.

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also promiscuity...i never said he was a saint and that he should NEVER sleep around...(i did say i expect to see him climbing out of random beds at time...) .but being that john is pretty much starved of affection (THIS STEMMED FROM HIS CHILDHOOD) i expect to see him at some point attempt to try (and fail,fail so VERY hard) at finding love.Yes,I get hormones ,fuck morals n' god and ,all that shit(john,not me) and i have done so questionable shit so whatever .

 

Yes john as a sexual person,I get that.In my journal verse(LINK in my signature),john/zee/nick thing started as a drug induced threeway at a rave in Arkham somewhere...in which case they winded up back at nick's place in brooklyn and had no idea how they got back,.worse,nobody knew john's name,he was just 'blondie' and that british guy.

 

And I see that as being VERY in character for early 20 something constantine.

 

but eventually,he'll grow up...or not.most people except extreme perverts with money (cuz you all have to pay,especially men after 35) eventually settle down.other than them,there are people who are just loners...and they wouldn't be chasing partners much

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That's a long way in the future for this version of John Constantine. The series hasn't reached the first year yet!

I don't expect to see sexuality all that much in the comic, to tell the truth. I wasn't expecting that John was going to be jumping from partner to partner to partner at random every issue.

I'd just rather see him as unattached, more of a loner, who wanders around, and when a chance hits, he just sleeps around.

At the end of the first issue, it was stated that he doesn't have any friends left, except the ghosts. So, obviously this version of John is a loner.

I don't expect to see him moping about how lonely he is either. In the first issue, there was a little twinge of hurt when the demon brought up his lack of friendships, but it wasn't something he was going to really show that bothered him, because he's ok about being a loner, but he has guilt over his friends being dead.

I just like how much of the "trickster" John was in this first issue. John has always been the trickster archetype, but it hasn't really been played up as much as I saw in this first issue, which is what I really enjoyed about the story. I want to see it keep going that way, with John representing an archetype, over spending as much time fleshing out the deep characterization, like Delano did.

I love what Delano did with the character, but no one can ever do as well what Delano did with the character. We've seen mishandling of the character for a number of years now, under Milligan and the "New 52". I wouldn't mind seeing something different done with rhe character, while keeping core elements of the character.

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People sleep around in real life.

John Constantine isn't supposed to be a role model.

If you think John being promiscous is the same thing as Azzarello's portrayal of bisexuality as something creepy, then you need to really wake up, and wonder what you want this book to represent.

People sleeping around is not something that should be considered "creepy".

John stole a wallet. Does that mean that bisexual people are thieves? Do we need to watch everything John does and says to make sure that it's acceptable, so that bisexual folks don't get a bad reputation? Is that what this book is about?

Is showing heterosexual people sleeping around giving a bad message about heterosexuality? Should we only have moral fiction that promotes monogamous sexuality?

If not, why is a bisexual character, who is shown to reject society's morality, seen as a bad thing?

I don't want John to be some progressive political point about how great bisexual people are, I want a John Constantine who doesn't care about morality. He fucks who he wants because he wants to fuck.

If that's all you want this version of John Constantine to be, then I'd rather side with those who'd rather John's sexuality not even be addressed.

 

I have always preferred monogamous relationships, myself.

I want to live vicariously through John Constantine. I want a character who flys in the face of everything considered acceptable by society. I want a transgressive character in this comic.

 

Also, you're looking at Hellblazer, which started when John was in his 30s. This version of John Constantine is younger. Based on what we know of John's days before Hellblazer started, you get the idea that he was promiscuous.

Which makes sense. People are more likely to experiment sexually when they're in their 20s, but by the time they're in their 30s, they're more willing to settle down with one partner and try to carve out a life together.

In his younger days, he was in a punk rock band, he experimented with drugs. I doubt he wasn't sleeping around.

The only actual relationship we know of before Hellblazer started, really, was Emma (from Moore's Swamp Thing), and that was portrayed as an open, long-distance relationship.

 

 

All of this!!!

 

tumblr_inline_nq44zh4uBS1rl4gtw_500.gif

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okay...though where i come from...we kinda start getting a life around 25 or 26.

 

so unless he's like 22-24 here,???

 

maybe cultural misunderstanding.so what ,what ,everyone in the uk starts having kids and families at 30?or is the broken family thing common and even accepted ?or is this a white thing,or a middle class thing? idk. is that how it works now? 30 is NOT the new 20.and this is implied to be after his punk rock days so???

 

i can buy 22-24 maybe,but if he's like 26-27 and bed-hopping.no.

 

speaking of which how old was the clearly under 40 john from injustice with the maybe 7 year old kid that he DID acknowledge (cuz,she knew him,though because of his life,he understandably wasn't around much.Too many enemies).i'm just sayin'.Not knockin' 'experimentation'...i would've never known i liked other women for sure if i didn't go find out.but really?

as for vicariousness...i do not vicariously live through fictional characters and if anyone wants to sleep with droves of people,that's on you.if i wanted to,i would.it's rediculously easy to get especially as a woman,a young woman,with a serious rack and alcohol involved (or ,you buy me drinks,you know how it goes)but as with hellblazer...john should act his age (pointing at milligan's run)

 

really,if we were dealing with john in his punk days,i'd expect to see some crazy shit.but...this is post punk john so not really.i'm sayin,i do agree with some one night stands,with all this birth control (never mind std's.they don't exist) its normal.but i really don't wanna see him with someone different EVERY issue.that would be over doing it

 

also lgbt people suck just as much a anyone else,and in fact are sometimes more bitchy,i don't think being bi is a badge of honor,on some days,i do a walk of shame.and of cours john's a damn shady bastard,he could be outright trans and be the same...i would hate to see a good guy john...that;s actually worse than an outright evil one

 

but really...it'd be nice if an actual bisexual write bisexuals for once sowe can not have this conversation.period

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okay...though where i come from...we kinda start getting a life around 25 or 26.

 

so unless he's like 22-24 here,???

 

maybe cultural misunderstanding.so what ,what ,everyone in the uk starts having kids and families at 30?or is the broken family thing common and even accepted ?or is this a white thing,or a middle class thing? idk. is that how it works now? 30 is NOT the new 20.and this is implied to be after his punk rock days so???

 

i can buy 22-24 maybe,but if he's like 26-27 and bed-hopping.no.

 

This is John Constantine, not Richie out of Happy Days.

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okay...though where i come from...we kinda start getting a life around 25 or 26.

 

so unless he's like 22-24 here,???

 

maybe cultural misunderstanding.so what ,what ,everyone in the uk starts having kids and families at 30?or is the broken family thing common and even accepted ?or is this a white thing,or a middle class thing? idk. is that how it works now? 30 is NOT the new 20.and this is implied to be after his punk rock days so???

 

i can buy 22-24 maybe,but if he's like 26-27 and bed-hopping.no.

 

This is John Constantine, not Richie out of Happy Days.

 

i know...but dead serious...are you guys still bed hopping at 30?this is an honest to god question.(NOT RELATED TO CONSTANTINE)

 

also...i think this desire for a character to be that promiscuous...must have vicarious leanings.I did say that i expect one night stands...its normal...please don't misinterpret.For god's sake,I read Tarot ,Witch of the Black Rose and Lady death and God knows it's just T&A and essentially soft core porn...but even Tarot has had ACTUAL RELATIONSHIPS (she's bi too!) .Just...no love at all would be lame.And even if in love,I do NOT mind seeing john getting it on with said person,regardless of gender.

Seriously,Constantine has too many feels to NOT fall in love (though for all the WRONG reasons).Really,he's one of those characters who needs a hug...but is scared whoever touches him would get burnt...probably literally because he could end up in a crazy situation like that.

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It sounds like you have your own romantic notions about John Constantine.

 

I mean, John wasn't married until he was nearly 60 years old in Hellblazer. I know he was a serial monogamist, which I can relate to, as that's what I've always been.

There's no hard or fast rules on when a person gets married, or even if they will be married. John Constantine of Hellblazer also never had any children.

Some people get married at 16 too.

All I'm saying is, there's no need to rush John in to a committed relationship in this new series, and based on the way the character has been written, he doesn't seem like the type who is too worried about just getting sex as it comes.

Do we really need to see the soft, vulnerable, caring side of this Constantine already in a comic book that's just launched?

 

Yeah, honestly, the idea of failed long-term relationship after failed long-term relationship is pretty damn hard on a person emotionally.

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I mean, John wasn't married until he was nearly 60 years old in Hellblazer.

 

Never happened. You must be misremembering things. :smile2:

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It sounds like you have your own romantic notions about John Constantine.

 

I mean, John wasn't married until he was nearly 60 years old in Hellblazer. I know he was a serial monogamist, which I can relate to, as that's what I've always been.

There's no hard or fast rules on when a person gets married, or even if they will be married. John Constantine of Hellblazer also never had any children.

Some people get married at 16 too.

All I'm saying is, there's no need to rush John in to a committed relationship in this new series, and based on the way the character has been written, he doesn't seem like the type who is too worried about just getting sex as it comes.

Do we really need to see the soft, vulnerable, caring side of this Constantine already in a comic book that's just launched?

 

Yeah, honestly, the idea of failed long-term relationship after failed long-term relationship is pretty damn hard on a person emotionally.

 

...the 60 year old marriage thing is a result of following western comics standard,marry sue insertion ,and wish-fulfillment,point invalid.

 

serial monogamy?

 

Own insecurities and realization that he's a FUCK UP (he is) who doesn't deserve love,Again...reinforced and stemming from an abusive childhood and later,other trauma.

 

as far as being vulnerable...he was kinda some time vulnearble after that crazy fear machine situation and he showed up at marj and mercury's...this was just before the flashback 'dead boy's heart ' thing (looking right at it).And actually,his entire persona is kinda hiding a hurting person.World did him bad and lashing out thing,not just some sociopathic dick.Result of life conditions,social conditioning (child-hood) and other things.

 

All in all,bad lovelife stems form self fulfilling prophecy.Really,do you want me to start posting panels where he's monologuing about these things.

 

and who said he had to be soft and caring? that hardly has to do with being in love...some of us are full time assholes regardless (john).Besides,john kinda read as the 'make the pain go away' escapist-vice type.

 

And he kinda has a tendency to start coddling on women.NO I do NOT wanna see this next issue,or the next...maybe issue #8-10 (if this even makes it that far).I'm kinda referencing things for later and not things for now...but it wouldn't hurt if a powerful actual love interest from his dark past shows up (or conversly if we found out that John/Gaz was probably the start of such behavior)

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It sounds like you have your own romantic notions about John Constantine.

 

well to be fair, it is what you are doing too. you like the idea of him being anti society to the bone. this is pretty romantic on its own merit. i understand where you are coming from. however i how he was displayed in hellblazer, with having relationships. it was making him seem less of an archetype and more of a human. his human moments made hellblazer so much more readworthy than most of the rest. folks like the bat and supes, they are just to clean an archetype to bring any enjoyment to me. having him break character from time to time makes him even more gritty. he does not need to be in a relationship right now, for that i agree, but he shouldn't be promiscuous. i never read john as a character particulary driven by sexual desire, just as much as the average human propably.

 

John Constantine of Hellblazer also never had any children.

 

well he did. it was the result of what can only be supposed to have been rape. but still three little demonlings.

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It sounds like you have your own romantic notions about John Constantine.

 

well to be fair, it is what you are doing too. you like the idea of him being anti society to the bone. this is pretty romantic on its own merit. i understand where you are coming from. however i how he was displayed in hellblazer, with having relationships. it was making him seem less of an archetype and more of a human. his human moments made hellblazer so much more readworthy than most of the rest. folks like the bat and supes, they are just to clean an archetype to bring any enjoyment to me. having him break character from time to time makes him even more gritty. he does not need to be in a relationship right now, for that i agree, but he shouldn't be promiscuous. i never read john as a character particulary driven by sexual desire, just as much as the average human propably.

 

John Constantine of Hellblazer also never had any children.

 

well he did. it was the result of what can only be supposed to have been rape. but still three little demonlings.

 

And more or less Tefe before them (and that was a joint effort with the Bog God in the driver's seat)

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well he did. it was the result of what can only be supposed to have been rape. but still three little demonlings.

 

rosacarnis...

 

tefe holland?

 

Brought up Tefe in my post

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well he did. it was the result of what can only be supposed to have been rape. but still three little demonlings.

 

rosacarnis...

 

tefe holland?

 

Brought up Tefe in my post

 

didn't realize...walked away during the post

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okay...though where i come from...we kinda start getting a life around 25 or 26.

 

so unless he's like 22-24 here,???

 

maybe cultural misunderstanding.so what ,what ,everyone in the uk starts having kids and families at 30?or is the broken family thing common and even accepted ?or is this a white thing,or a middle class thing? idk. is that how it works now? 30 is NOT the new 20.and this is implied to be after his punk rock days so???

 

i can buy 22-24 maybe,but if he's like 26-27 and bed-hopping.no.

 

This is John Constantine, not Richie out of Happy Days.

 

THANK YOU!!

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ok,fine.

 

comic book standard it is.

 

though really if he would hook up with someone who could hold their own against the supernatural and not fuck it up with his self issues (that's what it is...this is mostly about john's inability to love himself) said people (zatanna,madame xanadu ,nick necro,jaimini sargent,shade the changing man,hell ZED would work better than some.Epiphany if she WASN'T young enough to be his grand-daughter...couldn't they have had her older but looked young like xanadu or somethin?He has been with ALL [okay,he and shade just kissed] but you see what I mean) he wouldn't have to deal with fridged lovers.

 

but of course,this would be bad writing,right?

 

think i'm still hung up on kit ryan...and the fact that a book where somebody is bed hopping is boring unless its gratuitous porn.So,unless we're outright porning it here ...EVENTUALLY somethin's gotta give.right now ,i'm concerned over seeing his past play out more than anything. i expect love by issue 5...if it lasts that long.

 

i will end with this...i never said no bed hopping...just not forever...

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It sounds like you have your own romantic notions about John Constantine.

 

well to be fair, it is what you are doing too. you like the idea of him being anti society to the bone. this is pretty romantic on its own merit. i understand where you are coming from. however i how he was displayed in hellblazer, with having relationships. it was making him seem less of an archetype and more of a human. his human moments made hellblazer so much more readworthy than most of the rest. folks like the bat and supes, they are just to clean an archetype to bring any enjoyment to me. having him break character from time to time makes him even more gritty. he does not need to be in a relationship right now, for that i agree, but he shouldn't be promiscuous. i never read john as a character particulary driven by sexual desire, just as much as the average human propably.

 

I'm basing my opinion off of what I saw in the first issue of the comic.

I said I wanted to see something different from this incarnation of Constantine. This is obviously not the same comic book as Hellblazer.

I said, myself, I wouldn't mind seeing this version of John Constantine portrayed as the romantic anti-hero ideal.

I would say, based on the first issue, that the characterization of John Constantine in this book is pretty off as compared to Hellblazer. I think that the negative responses to this book on this forum were based on comparing this with Hellblazer, which it's a pretty fair distance from being. The dialogue was all wrong for John Constantine from Hellblazer.

Just look in the first issue...he slept with the demon chick. How many regular people are going to fuck a demon just for the hell of it?

I give the first issue points because it is trying to be something different, from what we saw, and because it's not trying to be Hellblazer.

Hellblazer is gone. I fear if writers continue to try to make John Constantine in to the same as what we loved about Hellblazer, that we're going to continue to see failure after failure, with long-time fans complaining because the characterization is not right. It's best to just break with the past and try to go in a new direction.

 

I'd also argue that John Constantine was at his most human during the Jamie Delano days when he didn't have a supporting cast and love interest, in the same way as we saw from many writers after Delano. He was much more of a loner during the Delano years. Ennis introduced the concept of the supporting cast of friends and the love interest. Ennis' John was much more "larger than life" than what we saw from the quiet portrayal of Delano.

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