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Christian

Worlds Will Live, Worlds Will Die, And It's a Secret

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The mega-event being billed as the biggest in Marvel history is one month away. Since it will lead to a relaunch of the entire Marvel Universe, ala DC's New 52 (but hopefully much better!), I figured it was worth starting a new topic.

A few of the books for Secret Wars have now been announced.

 

So, these are the universes that will survive and be merged in to the Battleworld Universe, before launching a brand new Marvel Universe.

 

Infinity Gauntlet (written by Gerry Duggan)

Old Man Logan-The Mark Millar mini-series within a series returns, only this time being written by Brian Bendis. Oh...

Planet Hulk (written by Sam Humphries)

Inferno (written by Dennis Hopeless)-A wonderful 1980s universe, where Mr. Sinister rules, and the world is overrun by demons.

Where Monsters Dwell (by Garth Ennis)-Which was already discussed on this site.

Secret Wars: 2099 (written by Peter David)

Spider-Verse (written by Mike Costa)-The just ended cross-over event, featuring every Spider Man character, returns already.

Master of Kung Fu (written by W. Haden Blackman)-It takes place in the land of Kun-Lun, from the Iron Fist series.

 

Those are the surviving universes announced, so far, for Secret Wars, starting in May. There are also a bunch of other tie-in books announced.

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Inferno (written by Dennis Hopeless)...

 

That surname on the cover will sell tons of books.

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Inferno (written by Dennis Hopeless)-A wonderful 1980s universe, where Mr. Sinister rules, and the world is overrun by demons.

 

 

Was this the series that ruined Hobgoblin by turning him into an actual demon thing?

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Yeah. It was one of the Hobgoblins. At that point there were three, and one became Demogoblin. It didn't ruin Hobgoblin, though, because it wasn't the one Roger Stern meant to be Hobgoblin. I didn't mind that story.

Hobgoblin was already kind of ruined by having three of them.

It wasn't the fault of Inferno, which was mainly meant to be in X-Men. It was a tie-in story by Gerry Conway in Spider Man that introduced Demogoblin.

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I'm actually kind of looking forward to Secret Wars, Hickman has been pretty decent, although kind of cryptic with Avengers and I've heard his New Avengers as also been really interesting has well.

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I hate big event crossover reboots. I hate them. I barely read anything by Marvel or DC because of them. With every big crossover event, my interest in those megabrands became less and less. i shouldn't complain too much, I guess. It's because of those types of things that I discovered Image, Oni and the other smallish labels and the superior indie work being done by them. with all due respect.

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I think you should give some Marvel books a chance. They've published a lot of top quality comic books over the past decade. I think those people who say, "I'll never give Marvel or DC a chance" as as bad as those who say, "I will only read a Marvel or DC comic".

I understand cost. You can only buy so many books. But, there are some Marvel books I find to be of much better quality than most Image titles.

I can't say much for DC Comics anymore, as they've lost me as a customer since the "New 52". DC used to publish some quality titles too.

 

Secret Wars is something for us "fanboys". It's for people who read a majority of Marvel's books. Who fell in love with the Marvel Universe. Who have been following the Marvel Universe for decades. Someone like me.

It's not for you, Slinker. I completely understand that. It is a big deal for the world of comic books though, as Marvel has never actually rebooted their line, the way DC has many times since the 1980s.

I might end up absolutely hating Marvel after Secret Wars, the way I ended up hating the "New 52". But, for right now, I am interested in Secret Wars.

 

Yeah, I can understand why people hate cross-overs. I hate most cross-overs. But, you can just skip the cross-overs and read other Marvel books that aren't involved in the cross-over event. Except for Secret Wars, which is destroying and rebirthing the entire Marvel Universe, most of Marvel's cross-overs only ran through certain titles. They were easy to avoid, if you hate cross-overs. The idea that you can't read any Marvel comics because of their yearly cross-overs just isn't true (except for Secret Wars).

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I used to read them all the time, though. I feel like I did give them a chance and it didn't pan out. I first started reading x-men and daredevil. that's how I got into comics. Well, and batman and spider-man, of course. then i got into punisher and avengers. in fact, before i discovered vertigo and image, I was almost exclusively marvel. but i've really lost interest in superheroes, costumes and capes, with a few exceptions. maybe i'm just not fun anymore.

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Looking at Guardians 3000, the big reboot is probably going to be more like the Infinite Crisis than the New 52...

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I used to read them all the time, though. I feel like I did give them a chance and it didn't pan out. I first started reading x-men and daredevil. that's how I got into comics. Well, and batman and spider-man, of course. then i got into punisher and avengers. in fact, before i discovered vertigo and image, I was almost exclusively marvel. but i've really lost interest in superheroes, costumes and capes, with a few exceptions. maybe i'm just not fun anymore.

 

Or, maybe they're just not as fun anymore.

 

I started out solely reading Marvel Comics also. Legends of the Dark Knight was the first DC Comic I ever read.

I can understand outgrowing superheroes. I'm sure it happens to some people. At least you knew enough about comics to know that there were other types of comics than just superheroes. A lot of people feel like they just outgrow comic books, because they think all it is Superman and X-Men, without realizing there's a whole other world of comics out there.

I felt like I outgrew comic books when I was in high school. I quit reading them for three years, thinking they were all for kids. To be fair, it was the early-1990s, and most superhero books were geared at illiterate people. Then, I discovered Sandman and later Vertigo (which was just starting out at the time), so I decided I hadn't outgrown comic books after all.

Later, I figured I wasn't as mature as I figured either, and decided I had to jump back in with superheroes too! he he

I don't feel the same for modern comics that I feel for comic books from the 1980s, but I still find a lot of good books being published by Marvel.

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Looking at Guardians 3000, the big reboot is probably going to be more like the Infinite Crisis than the New 52...

 

I guess it's more that the Marvel Universe is going to be reborn, but that characters we know from the comic books are going to survive, and it's going to be more mix and match. So, we might see a teenage Peter Parker from the past survive as the new Spider Man. We might see Ultimate Wolverine as Marvel's new Wolverine. Etc.

I hope it's a bit more complex than that, because it doesn't sound like something I want to read about. "Peter Parker:Man Out of Time"! "Wolverine:Stranger in a Strange New Land"! Sounds like material for some crap stories.

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i could've bought ms marvel today (the tpb of the first firve issues and an annual or something seemd to have just come out over here). i wasn't sure if i should buy it or not, i just remember the big fuss about her being muslim, but i don't know if it's quality or not. should i have bought?

 

also

i've really lost interest in superheroes, costumes and capes, with a few exceptions.

 

my answer: you are old and turning into alan moore. :tongue:

 

no i can totally relate to your statements. although i did not grow up with american comicbooks, but with the european mainland ones:

Spirou et Fantasio, Lucky Luke, tintin, blueberry, something similar to blueberry with pirates and something with little people (i don't mean humans i mean very very short people) who are far more advanced then the humans they secretly live amongst. i am still catching up, but my stance on comic books right now (exaggeration and in the words of some e-sports player): warren ellis is god everybody else is shit.

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I haven't totally outgrown super heroes. Jupiters Legacy is about superheroes. I think i've just out grown the G and PG rated superhero tales. but like I'm a John Hickman fan and can't stand his Marvel stuff. Same with Jason Aaron.

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See, I love pretty much everything by Aaron. I think he's one of the top three names in comics today, who write full-time. I think some of his best work has been at Marvel. He's had a majority of his work published by Marvel now.

Hickman is pretty good. He's basically the same at Marvel or at an indy company. His stuff at Marvel has been sci-fi as well. His work often gets more complex than it should, and his endings are often lacking, after such long build-up. I can say that applies equally to Manhattan Projects or Avengers.

It looks like most of Marvel's top writers will be gone after Secret Wars though. Hickman says that SW ends the story he wanted to tell at Marvel. And, I haven't heard that Aaron will be doing much once SW starts. So, lots more creator owned projects.

 

Seventh-Yeah, Miss Marvel is worth a look. Some people felt it was Marvel's best book in a few years. I just like it, but don't love it. It's a fun coming-of-age story about a teenage girl from a Muslim household, who doesn't really fit in anywhere, but wants to please her parents...and things get more confusing for her when she happens to develop powers.

Ellis? I guess you haven't read very widely in Ellis' library! He's one of my top ten comic writers when he's at his best, but he's published a lot of series that are just hard to read, they're tedious and just bad. He churns out a lt of bad stuff, and leaves a lot of projects that showed promise unfinished. His current work doesn't interest me...Trees went nowhere in six issues, and Supreme: Blue Roses I don't even know what the point of it was. I guess it's over, but I'm just lost. I feel like I wasted money.

Planetary was one of the best comic books ever, until towards the end, when it lost focus, started to repeat itself, and had such a weak ending. I live Ellis' early work at Marvel, myself...Hellstorm, Druid, Doom 2099, Excalibur. I feel he never really topped those projects. NextWave was hilarious and fun too.

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yeah, hickman's endings used to suck. i think he's gotten better.

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Looking at Guardians 3000, the big reboot is probably going to be more like the Infinite Crisis than the New 52...

 

I guess it's more that the Marvel Universe is going to be reborn, but that characters we know from the comic books are going to survive, and it's going to be more mix and match. So, we might see a teenage Peter Parker from the past survive as the new Spider Man. We might see Ultimate Wolverine as Marvel's new Wolverine. Etc.

I hope it's a bit more complex than that, because it doesn't sound like something I want to read about. "Peter Parker:Man Out of Time"! "Wolverine:Stranger in a Strange New Land"! Sounds like material for some crap stories.

Or even some potentially good ones: X-Man was about the only even half decent X Men comic being published between Uncanny losing it and Generation X coming along, after all.

(I could be in the minority thinking that, of course. The whole "man out of time" thing is the ideative engine driving a lot of superhero stories on at least some level, though. It didn't do Sentinel or Enigma any harm...)

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I think Aaron is one of the best writers out there today, but his Marvel stuff is hit or miss for me. Ghost Rider and Hulk were very "Meh" while Thor has been consistently great. I have not read his Wolverine.

 

I still find that I like "super hero" comics when they are done well (and I am not sure anyone is doing it better than Millar right now). It just takes a bit of digging to find them.

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christian yeah, when i was reading planetary i was totally flashed. you are right, you can feel how ellis lost interest in the title and just wrapped it up. i find global frequency awesome to the point it is ridiculous. i don't have to mention transmet, it is not superheroes. i have read some other stuff, but non of it is bad, sure he repeats himself a wee, but the stuff i have read so far never went below mediocre imo.

 

i have read stuff by alan moore that is far worse than the worst i have read of ellis. neonomicon for starters (i still hate myself for wasting money on that of cause tpb).

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Dog-Yeah, you might be alone in your X-Man love. John Ostrander did write the book near the beginning though. It was a dire period for X-books, it's sort of "damning with faint praise" to say, "Yeah, well, X-Man wasn't as bad as the rest of the X-line at the time!". Eventually, Terry Kavanagh took over on X-Man, and that man just cannot write, and X-Man might have ended up the worst title in the X-line. I enjoyed what Ellis did on X-Man when he came on at the end.

Generation X was always a high point for the early-1990s X-line, minus the stint with Larry Hama that followed Bachalo leaving, which was dire.

The Gambit solo title was pretty decent when it started too. That was after the early-'90s nonsense though, more like 1996.

By the late-'90s, the X-line started to get pretty good again.

 

EDIT:My time-line may be a little off, as Peter David took over on X-Factor in 1991, and that was before Generation X or X-Man started.

 

Seventh-Neonomicon was really bad, yeah, but it sounds like you've been reading Ellis' better work. He has quite a bit of good work. He also has plenty of books that were about as bad as Neonomicon. To be fair, Moore only wrote Neonomicon because the publisher gave him advanced pay so he could pay off back-taxes before he lost his house.

Also, Ellis has the annoying propensity to start a project that looks good and quickly stop writing it, to move on to some far less interesting project, never to finish the earlier series.

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Also, Ellis has the annoying propensity to start a project that looks good and quickly stop writing it, to move on to some far less interesting project, never to finish the earlier series.

 

Vintage Ellis.Seriously, dude was so clutch, so auto-buy. Now I can't even be bothered.

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To be fair, Moore only wrote Neonomicon because the publisher gave him advanced pay so he could pay off back-taxes before he lost his house.

 

so that doesn't make the book any better, but i have contributed to moore keeping his house with the magic cave benaeath. :laugh::boogie:

 

so my modus operandi is: i read something that i like, i read up on wikipedia what is the important work of this author and what is thematically relevant to my interests and then i read that. for ellis this approach has been rewarding. the perks of being relatively new to comics :smile2: there is all the gold out there i haven't read.

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OK, well, Moore will always get more credit than Ellis. Just house rules! Moore has undisputed classics in his oeuvre that Ellis has nothing even coming close (although he gave it a good shot with Planetary). Moore has From Hell, Promethea, and V For Vendetta, which are just pretty much impossible masterpieces to top. And, that's not even mentioning other work like Swamp Thing. Plus, there's that over-rated Watchmen thing that a lot of people like to say is the greatest thing ever written in comic books, but they are wrong.

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Back on topic. Marvel has announced a lot more surviving universes making up Secret Wars, for the month of June. Too many to really list. I'll pick out some of the better ones (mostly based on author).

 

1602:Witch Hunter Angela-This one stands out because I like the idea of throwing together Neil Gaiman's Marvel owned projects in one series, and it's being written by Kieron Gillen.

 

1872, Steve Rogers is a sheriff in the "old west" where Kang under his under his Victor Timely pseudonym sets up a steampunk city. Which might be fun.

 

James Robinson will be writing the Age of Ultron and Armor Wars books.

 

There's an E is for Extinction title, which will most likely be somehow playing off of Grant Morrison's run on New X-Men (although I'm not familiar with the creative team).

 

Future Imperfect by Peter David!

 

Marvel's horror characters will be in Howling Commandos, but the premise doesn't sound all that interesting. Still, Man Thing!

 

Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel continue under new titles as Guardians of Knowhere and Captain Marvel and the Carol Corps, respectively.

 

There's going to be a Squadron Sinister book, which might be good.

 

Korvac Sage by Dan Abnett.

 

Marvel Zombies by Si Spurrier

 

Jason Aaron continues his run on Thor with Thors, as all the different incarnations of Thor team up.

 

Weirdworld by Jason Aaron! That Doug Moench Lord of the Rings rip-off from the 1970s returns...I wasn't even sure Marvel actually owned the rights to this.

 

And, just for my own benefit, Years of Future Past, the classic X-Men story-line.

 

Oh, and if you care, Dan Slott has Peter Parker and Mary Jane and their baby, May, all back together now. I really don't care.

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honestly, other than Planetary and Transmetropolitan (and i had to have my arm twisted to read that one) i have no interest in Ellis. Freak Angels was ok, i guess, but ultimately forgettable.

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