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Christian

Marvel's One World Order

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Given that Marvel has an Eternals movie lined up for next year, wouldn't the comics division have wanted some fancy new relaunch of the property to coincide with the big screen version?

Though perhaps it is possible they wanted to avoid a potential repeat of the Inhumans push and decided that yet another X-Men relaunch was the way to go.

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I know.

Maybe Marvel initially greenlighted Hickman on Eternals, but realized that this will contradict what’s been going on with Aaron’s Avengers, and decided they could wait for the big Eternals push closer to the movie.

I might be wrong, but some of the elements from House/Powers seems like it would have fit better with the Eternals.

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You're all still reading Immortal Hulk, aren't you? If there's a better superhero comic being published, I'd love to know about it.

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Can you really consider that a "superhero" comic though? Hulk is certainly not acting very heroic.

Yes, the ending of the last issue was great.

Check out the cover for next issue:

Immortal Hulk (2018) 25A

How can you not want to read that comic?

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So Donny Cates  is taking over on Thor after Aaron. Looks like this is where I get off, boys.

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Yeah, I can't see myself bothering with Thor after Aaron either. I even gave up on Aaron for a time too, but am reading the King Thor story.

I'm trying to keep my pull-list small too. I got really burned out by trying to keep up-to-date on most of Marvel's comics. They put out too many books. I can't afford it. Plus, the quality isn't there usually, and it made me start to dislike most comic books.

I'm following Hickman to the end of House/Powers, and after that, I'll see if I plan to continue with any of the "Dawn of X" relaunch.

Al Ewing's Immortal Hulk is a true stand-out mainstream comic. One of those books that comes along only too rarely.

That's about all of the interest I have in Marvel's output currently. I have even less interest in most of what DC is publishing these days.

A lot of books I've been following (like Black Science) have recently ended. I'm not seeing a great deal of indy books that I feel the need to read to replace anything either.

I'm still keeping up with the Hellboy Universe at Dark Horse.

I can really pare my pull-list down to a bare minimum now.

There was one point when my pull-list consisted of Uncanny X-Men, Morrison's New X-Men, and Lucifer. That was it. I didn't even want to keep buying Uncanny either, but had to for the sake of my collection.....

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I hear you, man. I have a huge gap in my Aaron Thor as well (hope to close that). Still reading his Avengers which is ok.

Black Hammer wrapped up, even though they have some things on the horizon. Jeff Lemire has a new graphic novel coming out so that will be nice.

Honestly if I get more than 2 or 3 books a week it's a big week. Just not much out there, and that is OK, I have a lot to catch up on

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Powers of X #6-Well, that was kind of a waste. Hickman made the story a lot more complicated than it needed to be. Since this was just establishing the new status quo, it probably could have been accomplished  in just four issues.

Basically, the first three issues are pretty amazing, with lots of big ideas and making you feel like you are reading a story that was completely different from anything in the X-Men before. After that second issue of House of X, though, not a great deal happened.

I believe that Hickman intends this to be the new status quo for mutants going forward, so that we don't have a return to the horrible story directions we've been seeing in the X-books since House of M.

How that will work with the rest of the Marvel Universe, I'm none too sure. However, Marvel barely cares about tight continuity anyway. It seems like Hickman used a large number of pretty random ret-cons throughout this series.

It makes you wonder though, how does this direction work in the same universe as a comic like the Immortal Hulk?

I'm intrigued enough to pick up Hickman's X-Men #1, although I'm still hesitant. At the very least, this direction is a lot more interesting than "mutants are going extinct again" or another poor man's retreads of Claremont.

Oh, and I want to mention something about Hickman's use of characterization, but that would be a spoiler.

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On 10/8/2019 at 6:30 AM, Christian said:

Al Ewing's Immortal Hulk is a true stand-out mainstream comic. One of those books that comes along only too rarely.

Yeah. Remember how the "best comics of the year" threads used to ask if there was anything published of the calibre of Sandman or Dark Knight Returns or whatever, and there was usually nothin'? :smile2:  Well then: Immortal Hulk.

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With a bit of hyperbole, Immortal Hulk feels like it's doing for the Hulk what Alan Moore did for Swamp Thing. I'm not sure how the writer who follows what Ewing has done can go back to writing a regular old Hulk Smash comic. (though Marvel and their big red reset button will definitely try their hardest)

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I know. How does anyone write a Hulk comic after Ewing? I'm sure Marvel will just find a way to ignore it. Maybe Ewing even has a reset button worked in to his story, so that it has a definitive ending, and then all the toys can be put back in the box for the next writer.

Then, the book will be right back to mediocre stories we've seen done so many times before.

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12 hours ago, Lou K said:

Its that good ?

Only if you think comics are good. :smile: 

I guess nothing's that good. Maybe it's just the expectation gap between mainstream 2019 superhero comic and the masterclass Al Ewing is giving, backed up by meticulous horror artwork that reminds me of Bissette and Wrightson on Swamp Thing. Ewing has also proudly built the story on the foundations of Hulk history, but it doesn't feel like continuity mining — it feels like what's on the page is just the tip of an iceberg, with a bigger story underneath.

Come to think of it, if you look at it as an homage to Hulk in the form of a horror comic, it's amazing. 

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I'd definitely say that Immortal Hulk is a horror comic. It's been quite disturbing at times, and is definitely not a superhero book. It's less of a superhero book that Moore's Swamp Thing, because at least Swamp Thing had morality. There's nothing heroic about this Hulk. There are more similarities, like between General Fortean and General Sunderland though, but that's also part and parcel of Hulk continuity, considering Thunderbolt Ross.

I'd also definitely agree about the Moore Swamp Thing comparisons. It's easily accomplishing the same things for the character, although the Hulk is a much more high-profile character,. If I were asked to compare it to another comic book, I wouldn't hesitate to say Moore/Bissette Swamp Thing.

Yes, I like this new trend at Marvel to look back at the origins of some of their classic characters and reinterpret them in a completely new direction. It's a good usage of continuity without just writing a tired rehash of the same stories that were done better a few decades ago.

Those early Stan Lee/Jack Kirby Hulk comics, they were definitely not a superhero comic. The Hulk has very firm roots in the horror genre, although it didn't last very long before Lee decided to try to make the Hulk a lot more sentimental.

Ewing is tapping in to those earliest hints about the direction that the Hulk comic could have gone under Stan Lee, but going somewhere very dark that Lee would have never touched. A sort of Stan Lee meets Alan Moore mysticism.

Hickman's X-Men run has been mining some of that same territory. I don't care what people say, I thought there were some good stories in those first couple of Lee/Kirby X-Men comics.

That very first issue of X-Men, there's something creepy and unsettling about the mutants when we first meet them. If you were reading that comic in 1963, it would have been a different experience. "Who is this bald guy, calling out to his X-Men? What is this all about?".

Hickman also tapped in to that feeling of weirdness that was there in the first Lee/Kirby X-Men comic, but has also mixed in elements of the character-defining Chris Claremont run and Morrison run, to tell a different story about mutants.

I like how these creators are going back to what Lee (and usually Kirby) gave us on the comic page, before Lee really figured out what he was doing in creating a superhero universe, and backed away from some of the ideas from the collective unconscious that he seemed to be tapping.

Anyway, back to the Immortal Hulk, yeah, this is not only the best "superhero" comic being published today, it's the best horror comic that I've seen in recent years.

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I am liking Hickman's X-Men. It has a different feel to it, but there's also the sense of the classic buried underneath. I'd say it is pretty close to what Ewing is doing with Immortal Hulk.

It's not as good as Immortal Hulk (at least not yet), and Hickman is using a lot more in-depth continuity. I don't think a reader unfamiliar with the history of the X-Men would be able to figure out what was going on with most of X-Men #1.

Immortal Hulk's use of continuity is much more superficial. It reads as a stand-alone series.

I'd best describe X-Men #1 as Chris Claremont meets Grant Morrison meets Arthur C. Clarke.

If you haven't read House and Powers of X books, don't bother with X-Men, because it won't make much sense. X-Men #1 continues over directly from the finale of Powers of X, which is why it's released just a week after that series ended.

Although, Hickman said that the new X-Men series was going to be done-in-one stories, and that's definitely not what this issue featured.

Right now, I'm the most excited I've been with the X-books since Mike Carey was writing X-Men probably, and it's the most interested I've been in the direction of the X-Men since Morrison. I even want to read most of the spin-off "Dawn of X" titles now to see where this is going.

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Marauders #1-For a comic book about free trade, there sure was a lot of beating up Russians. It was cute enough. I'm not sure there's enough meat to keep reading the book, but for right now, there's nothing that makes me want to stop reading it either. I do like Kitty Pryde a lot. So, I'll keep reading this one for the nonce, but it doesn't hook me like Hickman's issues, so far. If we saw a bit more on the issue of trade, it would probably do more to catch my attention.

Amazing Spider Man: Full Circle #1-I wasn't really sure what this was when I picked it up, other than some sort of Spider Man anthology with a story by Jonathan Hickman. I thought that sounded worth my time. Well, it's not an actual anthology, it's a "round robin" story. Sadly, Hickman writes the first part of the story, so he doesn't get to add much to the overall story. So, buying it to read a Hickman Spider Man story is a waste.

However, the Jason Aaron portion of the story is completely insane, and made up for me buying this thing. It's a gentle mocking of Kraven's Last Hunt featuring Peter Porker. Holy hell.

The plot isn't bad either, once you get in to it. The writers were trying to do something a bit more high concept, to make up for that exorbitant price tag.

Here's a note: When you just made a person spend fuckin' $10 for a comic book, the editor shouldn't open the comic saying, "I hope we were able to make this work"! Geez.

It's not worth $10, no, but it was a clever, fun story with some nice names writing the story, and the Aaron portion was pretty damn amazing.

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On 10/24/2019 at 1:37 PM, Christian said:

Here's a note: When you just made a person spend fuckin' $10 for a comic book, the editor shouldn't open the comic saying, "I hope we were able to make this work"! Geez.

:laugh:

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Excalibur #1-That was horrible.

So....Apocalypse is a sorcerer now? News to me.

This has nothing to do with Hickman's "Dawn of X". Not really. It seems like it's happening in its own alternate reality.

It's horribly written and badly conceived. This comic should have never been published in 2019, nevermind part of a huge relaunch of the X-Men franchise.

I will not be back, no.

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New Mutants #1-The other title Hickman wanted to write. This was really fun. It reminded me very much of Claremont's 1980s New Mutants run. Very high praise, indeed. Krakoa mostly served as a jumping off point for this story. While that annoyed me in Excalibur, it didn't matter with this New Mutants comic, because it was well written and included humour.

I am definitely interested in reading this New Mutants. It made me feel, at times, like I was discovering those classic Chris Claremont New Mutants comics all over again.

X-Force #1-This was ok. It read very much like X-Force. It was based strongly in the Krakoan set-up. This comic is actually continued directly on from the first Marauders issue. Benjamin Percy also returns the tone much closer to Hickman's House/Powers/X-Men series.

It's Benjamin Percy, so it's worth checking out where this is going with the next issue.

So, there's this weird disconnect in the middle of all these titles with Excalibur. It doesn't fit with the other "Dawn of X" books. It was the only book that I didn't enjoy.

This will end my "Dawn of X" thoughts, as I don't have any interest in picking up Fallen Angels.

Overall, not a band relaunch, although the two comics I most enjoyed were X-Men and New Mutants (both by Hickman). Those will probably end up being the only two "Dawn of X" books I continue buying on a monthly basis, unless the two other titles (outside of Excalibur, which I won't be reading again, because it's terrible) vastly improve. They weren't bad, but they either read as pretty average (Marauders) or it felt like more of the same from the X-line (X-Force).

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Morbius #1, Fallen Angels #1, Punisher: Soviet #1....well, I didn't like any of that!

Two of them read like they're straight out of the 1990s. I don't mean that as in any way a good thing.

Punisher: Soviet was just badly decompressed.

I wasn't planning to buy Fallen Angels from the "Dawn of X" line and now that I did end up buying it, I don't regret my earlier decision to not buy this one.

I won't be following up on any of these three comics.

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Well, I guess I should just get this out of the way....Hickman's X-Men #2 was pretty much a mess.

There was a somewhat cool concept hidden in this story, which could have worked nicely as a homage to crazy Silver Age plots....except, the issue wasn't written with the fun and flair of a Silver Age pastiche.

We had some very cringe-worthy plotting and dialogue. I'm sorry to say this, but it was Howard Mackie levels of bad.

Like, Cable deciding to give a grenade to an "alien being". The "alien being" blowing up the grenade and getting upset, only for Cable to assure Cyclops and Rachel that he meant the grenade as a peace offering. When things calm down, even the alien is wondering why Cable would do such a stupid thing.

Plus, there's the issue of the fact that it now seems that no one is living on Krakoa.

I at least thought that Hickman's series were going to be interesting. I'm not sure how the writer of books like Fantastic Four, Avengers, or SHIELD could end up writing something this dismal.

I'm beginning to think this new relaunch was all a horrible mistake, after the promise of House and Powers. New Mutants may be the only decent comic out of the "Dawn of X".

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