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Christian    734

I don't know. The characterization doesn't feel fluent. It does feel like we're seeing two different interpretations of the character that the author is pulling out depending on the circumstances. John is more like Two Face than the Batman character has ever been! I really liked the John Constantine character that Doyle presented in the first issue. It was still a recognizable John Constantine, but had a distinctive tone to the character, making him other than simply an attempt to recapture the Hellblazer glory days when people liked the character more. We haven't seen that version of John since issue #1 though. He's been more superficial since.

 

There really wasn't anything good to say about this issue. A 4-part story-arc that felt like 12 parts, and could have been done in two. Writing that reads like someone trying to write like Brian Bendis, but having no ear for dialogue....and still trying to write like Bendis in 2015 isn't a positive thing, even if you do capture his feel for "repartee". On the positive side, it looks like Georginia is gone now. She ended up just being boring.

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JohnMcMahon    562

Sounds like a good one.

 

Is this the end of the first arc ? Have the five issues there but only read the first one.

 

edit : Christian answers that, dumbo.

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dogpoet    442

The fact that he still looks to be in his mid twenties despite sharing a birthdate with Alan Moore hasn't been explained by him draining the lifeforce from the cloud of ghosts who've slipped out of reality that accompany him, then?

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Christian    734

Do you think that's actually the direction they're going, or just that the artist isn't doing a good job of portraying age? This version of John Constantine, portrayed in issue #1, was meant to be a younger version of John. He acted like a person in his 20s. Perhaps he's just become very, very immature....Milligan's John was immature for his age. I think maybe the shown birthdate was just an easter egg for long-time fans who remember when John was 60 years old, rather than a kiddie. I don't believe this John is really meant to be the same age as in HB.

Are there any ghosts left now, or did the Veronica-monster destroy them all? The ghosts were conspicuously absent this issue.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention the best part of the issue....That I actually saw that advertisement for a "Colonel Sanders of Two Worlds" comic book that DC is publishing....co-starring the Flash. Now, do you think they'll be charging money for this book? Just the fact that a thing like that can exist, and I know about it now from buying this comic, made it all worth it.

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Balthazar    167

Haven't picked it up but was hoping the responses would be favorable. If not, I don't think it's worth my continuing on. I'd rather spend cash on something else.

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dogpoet    442

Do you think that's actually the direction they're going, or just that the artist isn't doing a good job of portraying age? This version of John Constantine, portrayed in issue #1, was meant to be a younger version of John. He acted like a person in his 20s. Perhaps he's just become very, very immature....Milligan's John was immature for his age. I think maybe the shown birthdate was just an easter egg for long-time fans who remember when John was 60 years old, rather than a kiddie. I don't believe this John is really meant to be the same age as in HB.

Are there any ghosts left now, or did the Veronica-monster destroy them all? The ghosts were conspicuously absent this issue.

That's the direction I wished they were taking it, rather than the one it looked like they were going in the last issue I read, sadly.

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Demon Chas08    295

I don't know. The characterization doesn't feel fluent. It does feel like we're seeing two different interpretations of the character that the author is pulling out depending on the circumstances. John is more like Two Face than the Batman character has ever been! I really liked the John Constantine character that Doyle presented in the first issue. It was still a recognizable John Constantine, but had a distinctive tone to the character, making him other than simply an attempt to recapture the Hellblazer glory days when people liked the character more. We haven't seen that version of John since issue #1 though. He's been more superficial since.

 

There really wasn't anything good to say about this issue. A 4-part story-arc that felt like 12 parts, and could have been done in two. Writing that reads like someone trying to write like Brian Bendis, but having no ear for dialogue....and still trying to write like Bendis in 2015 isn't a positive thing, even if you do capture his feel for "repartee". On the positive side, it looks like Georginia is gone now. She ended up just being boring.

 

Thus why Tynion IV isn't a good wordsmith he thinks himself to be in his doing the comic's dialogue let alone the comic itself

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dogpoet    442

I thought it was Ming Doyle doing all the work and just fobbing some of the dialogue off to Tynion?

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Dave    265

I concur. A terrible ending. Im giving the book a few more issues before I bail

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Christian    734

Rossmo is back for a one-parter next, so I'll stick around for that, at the very least. The book really needs a lot of improvement though.

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Demon Chas08    295

I thought it was Ming Doyle doing all the work and just fobbing some of the dialogue off to Tynion?

 

True. Neither are a good match

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Gwilym    330

I'm done too. I really don't get this series.

 

I mean, it is boring, right? We're bored? Maybe it's just not my thing, but it's hard to imagine it being anyone's, including the writer's. It feels like dead air.

 

I don't get why they made it a reboot, either. If they actually had ideas for what to do with the world, fine. But they don't. They can't even seem to decide whether or not they did reboot it.

 

I don't get it.

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dogpoet    442

Maybe it's a portfolio thing that'll look good on the CV when looking for a job on a character they like more?

 

(Like the local government CEOs who spend six months failing to run a corrupt crooked town council in a shithole like Stoke or Tower Hamlets, then go off to get a job in a better council claiming that they've turned the whole thing around, so if they can do that with a bunch of con men there, think what they could do for a council in a town where decent folk live and the councillors aren't all crooks. This'd be the comics equivalent of that, I suppose.)

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A. Heathen    1,125

I am never in favour of the creator-hating (it's alright, Demon Chas does my share of that) and think it's really something they like and that there's an audience for. They definitely like Sex Criminals.

 

I read a bunch of things after reading this that made me see what they are aiming at and how badly they miss what I like about those.

 

Deadly Class TPB#3 and They're Not Like Us #8 and Doctor Strange.

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dogpoet    442

I didn't think I was h8in', Ade. It just doesn't look like they have any fondness for or interest in the character at all at this point, so I'm assuming they're doing this for some other reason.

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A. Heathen    1,125

No i was being broad with my sense of hate.

On the Internet too many people are quick to ascribe malice or incompetence to creative solutions just because they (the reader) doesn't like something

 

In other news, for wordy but eloquent magical anti-heroes, the latest issue of Wolf is exquisellent.

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dogpoet    442

And on the internet too many talentless "creatives" are quick to ascribe criticism of their latest output to envy on the part of the "hater" who had the poor manners to suggest that it maybe wasn't up to scratch rather than the "hater" having a valid criticism of the fact that they're churning out substandard creativity and expecting people to pay for it.

 

Swings and roundabouts, and probably worth remembering when the whole "hater" thing was started by the elements of the rap world who were making the least effort. You used to hear So Solid Crew whining about "haters" all the time. People with some semblance of talent? Not so much.

 

But that has little to do with More Constantine.

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Christian    734

I wouldn't attack the creators. I'm sure they can do fine work (well, not Tynion. I don't know much about Doyle though, so I can't really say. The artwork is fine. I like the artwork on the book fine. Rossmo is an incredibly talented artist who should be helping to reinvent Constantine now that Hellblazer is long gone. But, I don't see how anyone could have enjoyed this issue.

There's just no real effort being put in to the story. It's as "by the numbers" basic as you can get. Anyone could have written this story....Tom DeFalco, anyone. There's nothing distinctive about it. as far as plotting. Plus, critiquing a writer or artist for not properly doing their job is perfectly acceptable. There have been continued flaws with the dialogue in this book.

If Constantine is to succeed, it needs more creativity and something different that sets is apart. Right now, there are two comics which are doing Constantine better than Constantine....Wolf and Doctor Strange....and that's a real problem.

Expecting us to pay the inflated price for one comic book issue today and then delivering a sub-par product is not acceptable. Yes, we can just drop the book. But, we're on a Hellblazer fan site. Many of us obviously care deeply about this character and want to see him succeed. We're the loyal backbone for John Constantine in the DC Universe. We're some of the few who stuck with the New 52 relaunch for all its mediocrity. We critique because we care.

We can only judge creators based on what they put on the page. Maybe Doyle does like John Constantine, but she's not a good fit for that character so far, as she isn't bringing much in the way of ideas to this book, as of yet.

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A. Heathen    1,125

You both misunderstand me.

Read some of the comments in threads gone by.

 

Take a look at this thread: "Thus why Tynion IV isn't a good wordsmith he thinks himself to be",

"I thought it was Ming Doyle doing all the work and just fobbing some of the dialogue off to Tynion?"

"looking for a job on a character they like more?"

 

I am totally on board with people critiquing writing and art.

 

And Dogpoet, I guess there are more creatives on the internet than there are people critiquing them, so I guess you're right.

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Christian    734

Well, the fact remains that some writers just aren't very good. Tynion has never written anything I've found worth my time to read. Writers need to prove themselves, if they are getting paid for writing.

It's the same as saying that Howard Mackie is a horrible writer....he's proven himself to be. In his entire career, he's never written anything that is worth reading, and most of it stands as some of the worst comic book work ever written. Tom DeFalco is a very average writer. Yes, he can write decently, but he's never once written a story that has been inventive or creative in any way. He does what he does. There's no way around that. Are they bad people? Probably not. Are they "hacks"? Probably not, as they probably do love superheroes and comic books (I know DeFalco does). But, sometimes there's no gentle way to say things about a creator. It's not "attacking the authors", it's pointing out that they have short-comings. Neil Gaiman is an excellent writer, he's written some of the greatest comic books ever, but he's also written some sub-par work. It's wrong to judge Gaiman based solely on his poorer quality work, because he can definitely write. But, it'd be wrong to not critique Gaiman's work based on the fact that he's written such masterful books in the past. Mackie and DeFalco are not at the level of a writer like Gaiman. I don't see any of those comments being an attack on the creators.

What I'm saying is that is there really that much of a degree of difference between saying, "Tynion has never written a quality comic book" versus the quote you reprinted? I'd say it's a small degree of difference, and if you say that pointing out that Tynion's career hasn't seen a great deal of talent (so far) is an "attack" on him, then it does limit the ability to critique the author's work.

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Demon Chas08    295

I wouldn't attack the creators. I'm sure they can do fine work (well, not Tynion. I don't know much about Doyle though, so I can't really say. The artwork is fine. I like the artwork on the book fine. Rossmo is an incredibly talented artist who should be helping to reinvent Constantine now that Hellblazer is long gone. But, I don't see how anyone could have enjoyed this issue.

There's just no real effort being put in to the story. It's as "by the numbers" basic as you can get. Anyone could have written this story....Tom DeFalco, anyone. There's nothing distinctive about it. as far as plotting. Plus, critiquing a writer or artist for not properly doing their job is perfectly acceptable. There have been continued flaws with the dialogue in this book.

If Constantine is to succeed, it needs more creativity and something different that sets is apart. Right now, there are two comics which are doing Constantine better than Constantine....Wolf and Doctor Strange....and that's a real problem.

Expecting us to pay the inflated price for one comic book issue today and then delivering a sub-par product is not acceptable. Yes, we can just drop the book. But, we're on a Hellblazer fan site. Many of us obviously care deeply about this character and want to see him succeed. We're the loyal backbone for John Constantine in the DC Universe. We're some of the few who stuck with the New 52 relaunch for all its mediocrity. We critique because we care.

We can only judge creators based on what they put on the page. Maybe Doyle does like John Constantine, but she's not a good fit for that character so far, as she isn't bringing much in the way of ideas to this book, as of yet.

 

Thank you!

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