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her usage of magical commands is also very in sync with her being a top (disregarding the stupid backwardstalking thingy), as in: she likes to give orders.

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Maybe her and John fight over who gets to be on top, and either take turns, or decide to go a different route? John is a pretty dominant type of guy. I have a hard time seeing him ever accepting being submissive, even with role-playing. Although, he obviously bit the bullet for Manor.

Although, John is a magician, and part of the art of magic is often taking on different roles. To be a truly great magician, magicians really need to be able to come terms with getting in to playing the opposite, and overcoming dualities.

However, having said that, I don't believe that Crowley ever liked to take on a submissive role. That guy was an egomaniac.

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Given that Grant Morrison's thing of having Zatanna drawn to look like Dita von Teese (who according to several scurrilous sources is very much a bottom) has stuck, maybe she's been forcibly de-Dominatrixed at some point?

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Given that Grant Morrison's thing of having Zatanna drawn to look like Dita von Teese (who according to several scurrilous sources is very much a bottom) has stuck, maybe she's been forcibly de-Dominatrixed at some point?

 

could've been roleplaying

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Maybe her and John fight over who gets to be on top, and either take turns, or decide to go a different route? John is a pretty dominant type of guy. I have a hard time seeing him ever accepting being submissive, even with role-playing. Although, he obviously bit the bullet for Manor. Although, John is a magician, and part of the art of magic is often taking on different roles. To be a truly great magician, magicians really need to be able to come terms with getting in to playing the opposite, and overcoming dualities. However, having said that, I don't believe that Crowley ever liked to take on a submissive role. That guy was an egomaniac.
Given that Grant Morrison's thing of having Zatanna drawn to look like Dita von Teese (who according to several scurrilous sources is very much a bottom) has stuck, maybe she's been forcibly de-Dominatrixed at some point?
could've been roleplaying

 

that's the thing.males subs.your boss might be a sub,your bus driver.,the mail man...men do NOT where this on their sleeve because of societal norms and they would be judged quite harshly.lotta women don't get into this type of thing so from the perspective of a man who likes women,of course john's not gonna bring it up until he's already gained your trust(general rule of bdsm until online bdsm sites came around) .and really,everything from the way he wears his hair to the way he dresses is to decieve you into thinking'look how normal i am!look how much of a creep i'm not!'...and then some weird shit happens...or you might die or somethin',idk ..just saying with guys (especially bi guys) it is a whole new ball game.

 

the idea is that you're not suppose to be able to tell,that's the appeal you see.. wait to he comes crawling on his knees begging.....

though i would go with switch.

 

as for zatanna she really just gives off dom vibes(her and nick necro could possibly be one of those dominant couples looking for bi subs to play with-this is actually a thing) ...yet despite the beauty of dita von teese...never thought zatanna resembled her much. i know in bombshells she looks like katy perry,in new52,she looks more like megan fox (or scarjo...depends on the art) .in zatanna 2010 she spent time looking like mila kunis.and before she looked different.again. ugh! she is so inconsistantly drawn! one of the most inconsistent characters I have seen.it's like they said,lets draw a hotty with black hair and just did whatever.(this is an issue with american characters period,especially females--can we give the jaopanese manga characters points for consitancy? thank you)

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as for zatanna she really just gives off dom vibes(her and nick necro could possibly be one of those dominant couples looking for bi subs to play with-this is actually a thing) ...yet despite the beauty of dita von teese...never thought zatanna resembled her much. i know in bombshells she looks like katy perry,in new52,she looks more like megan fox (or scarjo...depends on the art) .in zatanna 2010 she spent time looking like mila kunis.and before she looked different.again. ugh! she is so inconsistantly drawn! one of the most inconsistent characters I have seen.it's like they said,lets draw a hotty with black hair and just did whatever.(this is an issue with american characters period,especially females--can we give the jaopanese manga characters points for consitancy? thank you)

The Zatanna as a Dominatrix notion raises a much more interesting question than our Johnny's orientation: does that mean that Batman is a sub as Zee and Bats used to be an item? Mind you, the possibility you raise that Constantine was added to the Zatanna/Necro thing as a unicorn is somewhat plausible.

As for Dita Von Teese, she was cited by both Morrison and Ryan Sook as the main model for Zatanna in the Seven Soldiers miniseries, and when she turned up outside of her own mini for that, the other artists seemed to be following Sook's lead. (If you haven't read that one, btw, you should seek it out: wonderful series.)

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oh c'mon bruce wayne is so definetly a sub. a guy that has to create a fake persona to do anything proactive, is as a grown man still pampered by his butler, parental issues from here to eternity, rich and succesful like he was imaginery and doesn't kill the bad guys, so they can break out of the asylum and abuse him and his friends again, because he, let's face it, enjoys it. i bet zee rode him with a strapon, while holding a rein attached to a nosehook, while he had to scream ee-or.

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Yeah, I definitely see that one, about Bruce Wayne. That guy is looking for a mommy figure that he can come to on his knees and get a spanking from when he's been bad. He needs his discipline.

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No wonder why Batman's so into women like Catwoman and Talia Al Ghul. All the tight leather, guns, whips, and druggings... they must turn his knees and much more into melted ice cream.

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She's the events promoter he's dating in the Steve Englehart issues, who leaves in a hurry when she works out that he's Batman as well.

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I have my doubts. Unless the woman is an occultist, Engelhart makes any vaguely feminist character act like a psycho.

Engelhart prefers "safe" women or women he can equate with an earth goddess.

It was an unsucessful relationship for Bruce anyway. He tried, but realized the only type of woman he can love is a dominatrix.

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I have my doubts. Unless the woman is an occultist, Engelhart makes any vaguely feminist character act like a psycho.

Engelhart prefers "safe" women or women he can equate with an earth goddess.

It was an unsucessful relationship for Bruce anyway. He tried, but realized the only type of woman he can love is a dominatrix.

 

but don't most men prefer safe women?

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Maybe. I think it'd depend.

I'd guess many men might be intimidated by a female who is too much of a challenge for them.

I'd get bored with a safe woman.

Perhaps that's why so many men cheat. They want to marry a safe woman, but then get bored, and they start looking around atwomen who don't look so safe.

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:ohmy::laugh::hattip:

A highly convincing argument.

thank you, it is also thourogly thought out, as you might guess. yes, i am very proud :laugh:

 

but don't most men prefer safe women?

wouldn't you need to feel extremly safe with a dominatrix, to allow her to, you know, dominate you? i never had the opportunity to try that stuff out, but to me it seems, that the whole bdsm thing is highly demanding of a lot of trust and safety. no?

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I think she meant "safe" as in "easier to get along with or control", not health-hazard wise. Yeah, BDSM is based on "safety" words, so that the person can stop what's happening at any time they choose.

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I don't understand that....If you're stronger than someone, you are safer around them, right? There's more of a threat to you if you're facing someone who is stronger than you.

Hence, a partner who is more difficult and complex is not as "safe".

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i think you are almost always safer with someone you can trust, regardless if you are in some ways superior to them or not. if you can bully someone into submission with your intellect, physical strength, financial ressources, emotional unpredictability or whatever and draw your confidence in the relationship from that fact, even if you plan to never act on it, thats not a relationship, thats a trainwreck waiting to happen. couples that don't realize that and are staying together for a long time, are one of the more depressive things you can witness. most of the time thats just a big pile of emotional scar tissue and propably at least one person slowly getting bereft of their soul. someone who is aware of their strength, is more confident, more stable has a higher likelihood to fulfill the needs of a healthy grown up partner and is more trustworthy, because they are not in a relationship with you, because they depend on you, they are because they want to be and thats safety.

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And, if only more people realized that, the divorce rate and the amount of people cheating on their partners would decrease. Sadly, I don't see many people who fall in to those traps waking up to that fact. There's still too much "instinct" involved with relationships, and not enough love or intellect. A lot of males think they should be dominant in a relationship, while a lot of females are looking for economic safety or suitable genetics for fathering a child. The fact that love is needed for a relationship, and that love can only come from equality, is still often overlooked by far too many couples.

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And, if only more people realized that, the divorce rate and the amount of people cheating on their partners would decrease. Sadly, I don't see many people who fall in to those traps waking up to that fact. There's still too much "instinct" involved with relationships, and not enough love or intellect. A lot of males think they should be dominant in a relationship, while a lot of females are looking for economic safety or suitable genetics for fathering a child. The fact that love is needed for a relationship, and that love can only come from equality, is still often overlooked by far too many couples.

 

That is completely true.Though I think people fail to realize what love is.I blame the media partially,but here's the thing; due to sexism ,classism and racism ,there have always been boundaries on relationships,expectations.But this is the first time in history when you can really choose a partner because you love them,I think people don't actually know how to handle this. There is also a fact that --I dunno about other countries but America has this "divorce culture".It's like people get married/get together with no intention of spending their lives together.It's like people say"you cna always get divorced",just as easily as you can grab another pair of socks from your drawer . :(

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