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JasonWanderer

Just Got into Hellblazer...

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A. Heathen    1,125

You've landed on several issues we were annoyed by at the time.

With Carey, Gemma had become a rounded Constantine -though vulnerable to trying too hard in the past . Mina had that annoying boyfriend for her but she was still Gemma.

Milligan put her in the Comics Refrigerator. 

And his treatment of Angie was puerile.

 

I like your take on the ending of #300. I may ever write "30 years later in that same pub" on my copy.

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Milligan's treatment of the women in the cast were my biggest problem with his run.  I didn't have any issue with Epiphany, she had her interesting moments and I liked her as a counterpoint to John, but Milligan seemed unsure of her as a character.  To shore up that she actually was super super I mean really super important guys, he trotted out Kit Ryan, Angie, and Gemma and did nothing but break them down to lift Epiphany up.  John wasn't interested in Kit, who was this boring normal woman, because now he was marrying a smoking hot 22-year old alchemist.  Angie was reduced to a walking fat joke who John wouldn't fuck no matter how hard she wanted or asked, and Gemma, holy christ was that character assassinated.  

Plot-wise, and even characterization of Constantine-wise, I liked a lot of Milligan's run.  I thought "India" was an interesting exploration of another culture, even if heaped with stereotypes, and some of his one-offs like "The Cottage" and "Suicide Bridge" were excellent.  I didn't mind Finn and I even thought the goofy trenchcoat arc had some charm to it.  That final arc, and especially the final issue, though, was nigh-unreadable.  Instead of doing something to celebrate the conclusion of a 300-issue run of a character, Milligan used it to focus completely on his own creations (Epiphany, Finn, Julian, Terry).  When those characters get more screen time in a final issue of Hellblazer than Chas, something has gone very wrong.  That last issue may very well be my least-favorite issue of the series, even more so than Mina's terrorist issue.  

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Another thing that bugged me about the Gemma rape is given that John created his Demon self out of his own unwanted bits, does that mean that deep down in John's darkest subconscious that there was already some part of him that sexually desired his niece? I suppose it is possible that it was the Nergal-extracted demon blood part of Demon Constantine acting, but still - what a vomit inducing possibility, Milligan! :puke:

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3 hours ago, A. Heathen said:

You've landed on several issues we were annoyed by at the time.

With Carey, Gemma had become a rounded Constantine -though vulnerable to trying too hard in the past . Mina had that annoying boyfriend for her but she was still Gemma.

Milligan put her in the Comics Refrigerator. 

And his treatment of Angie was puerile.

 

I like your take on the ending of #300. I may ever write "30 years later in that same pub" on my copy.

 

Haha, thanks.  Honestly, I just didn't like my other options.  Having it all be a dream/story would have been a cop-out and having it be some magical transport just goes against the essence of the work to me.

2 hours ago, Ixnay by Night said:

Milligan's treatment of the women in the cast were my biggest problem with his run.  I didn't have any issue with Epiphany, she had her interesting moments and I liked her as a counterpoint to John, but Milligan seemed unsure of her as a character.  To shore up that she actually was super super I mean really super important guys, he trotted out Kit Ryan, Angie, and Gemma and did nothing but break them down to lift Epiphany up.  John wasn't interested in Kit, who was this boring normal woman, because now he was marrying a smoking hot 22-year old alchemist.  Angie was reduced to a walking fat joke who John wouldn't fuck no matter how hard she wanted or asked, and Gemma, holy christ was that character assassinated.  

Plot-wise, and even characterization of Constantine-wise, I liked a lot of Milligan's run.  I thought "India" was an interesting exploration of another culture, even if heaped with stereotypes, and some of his one-offs like "The Cottage" and "Suicide Bridge" were excellent.  I didn't mind Finn and I even thought the goofy trenchcoat arc had some charm to it.  That final arc, and especially the final issue, though, was nigh-unreadable.  Instead of doing something to celebrate the conclusion of a 300-issue run of a character, Milligan used it to focus completely on his own creations (Epiphany, Finn, Julian, Terry).  When those characters get more screen time in a final issue of Hellblazer than Chas, something has gone very wrong.  That last issue may very well be my least-favorite issue of the series, even more so than Mina's terrorist issue.  

"India" actually was pretty good, you're right.  In fact those first few stories may not have been the best, but they weren't bad either. "The Devil's Trenchcoat" made me cringe, but not because of what it was, instead because of what I realized it could have been.  The scenario is actually pretty interesting and could have been a great character piece.  But it was what it was.  "The Cottage" was good, that is true.

Come to think of it, everything started to fall apart the moment Milligan started to rely on old characters.  When he was doing his own thing, it wasn't half bad.  For some reason he stopped creating new scenarios and as things started to wind down, he just went the Diggle route.  Except at least Diggle seemed to do it out of respect.

Yeah, Epiphany could have been a solid character if their was an actual focus on her rather than her being better than the other options.  It really makes sense Angie was butchered.  She was Epiphany - the magician who could keep up with John, while also having Kit's ability to see through him and still feel love - done so much better, since Angie at least had her own character.

The last issue seems more like an end to Milligan's run rather than the series; his swan song, not Constantine's.

46 minutes ago, GottaGetAGrip said:

Another thing that bugged me about the Gemma rape is given that John created his Demon self out of his own unwanted bits, does that mean that deep down in John's darkest subconscious that there was already some part of him that sexually desired his niece? I suppose it is possible that it was the Nergal-extracted demon blood part of Demon Constantine acting, but still - what a vomit inducing possibility, Milligan!

Yes.  After John finds out, Milligan (because I doubt the other writers had this in mind) has him contemplate what the meaning of Demon Constantine wanting Gemma was.

To remedy this, I just took it as the lust for a younger girl that John had during Milligan's run and not necessarily a long standing lust for Gemma.

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dogpoet    442
1 hour ago, GottaGetAGrip said:

Another thing that bugged me about the Gemma rape is given that John created his Demon self out of his own unwanted bits, does that mean that deep down in John's darkest subconscious that there was already some part of him that sexually desired his niece? I suppose it is possible that it was the Nergal-extracted demon blood part of Demon Constantine acting, but still - what a vomit inducing possibility, Milligan! :puke:

To be fair, that sort of thing is why we have a superego standing over our id with a blunt implement in its hand and a stern look in its eyes...

(I think rather than a buried desire of Constantine's that was supposed to be his ousted shittiest bits exploiting Gemma's fantasies in pursuit of forced sex, though. At least, I hope it was.)

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