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John Waterman

Punisher: MAX Discussion

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Honestly, I don't care what happens to him. And neither does he. He has nothing left, and death isn't something that he's afraid of. He's not going to take the coward's way out and off himself, but life means nothing to him, his or anyone else's. He's a killing machine, and that's what I read the comic for. It's my "blood 'n' guts" title. Excepting anything of depth from the Punisher is a bit fruitless, isn't it?

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not expecting depth, but zero character, zero personality? I expected bettewr from Garth, based on his Hitman alone!

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Frank Castle has a personalty. It's just ennis has been fixated on him being a blood thirsty pyschopath with a gun.

 

If you want to read Stuff that gave frank a Personality an depth. Then read Warzone an War Journel and the stuff done by Carl Pott's and Chuck Dixon. They gav Frank a personality an depth.

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the whole Spidey "team-up"

 

Oh man that was one of my favorite moments ever.

 

Oh, and "Born" was excellent. Probably the best Punisher story ever written, for my money.

 

Word, that one blew me away.

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Frank Castle has a personalty. It's just ennis has been fixated on him being a blood thirsty pyschopath with a gun.

 

 

c'mon, even Schwartzie-boy in terminator 2 had to get an iota of personality, jus seeing someone kill and kill and kill isn't that interesting, IMHO.

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Got the conclusion to "Mother Russia" this week. It was very good. The whole storyline was definetly the best Punisher arc in far too long.

 

It also contained perhaps the best description of Frank Castle I've ever heard:

 

Russian General(upon surveying all the carnage Frank caused): That was no American. It was a Russian who was born there by mistake.

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I think the general is trying to say it's Russians who fight as soldiers...on the ground, up close...Vietnam (mostly) and Hiroshima are just examples of chucking mass destruction from afar...not very Frank Castle-like at all.

 

Besides, the Russians are no slouches when it comes to brutal death en masse.

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I like Ennis's take on the character in MAX. He's not just blood and violence, any more than a movie like the Wild Bunch is just blood and violence.

 

What Ennis seems to be doing is crafting a morality tale: Frank has this sort of "duty" ethic, where he will happily kill the entire world if he needs to, but only if it is "guilty."

 

It's a kind of extrapolation on the retributive thrust of punishment America: in the last twenty years, we've decided that rehabilitation doesn't work, and persons who commit even the most minor infractions can (and have been) sentanced to prison for life (even "liberal" california supports a 3 strikes law that will send offenders to prison for life for committing non-violent crimes).

 

I'm not saying whether thats a good or bad thing (there are strong arguments on both sides) but I think the point is, in general, the defense of retributivist methods of punishment lacks any sort of "bright line" imposed by morality: we will happpily execute retarded people (for example).

 

At least, until the supreme court tells us not to.

 

I think Ennis's version of Frank captures the essential paradox of the American psyche when it comes to crime: we happily give up our rights when ever we become scared, and accept torture, murder and worse if our intrests are at stake but at the same time we are not psychopaths (those all these actions, if done by an indvidual and not a collective would seem psychopathic). Oh no, we are the "good guys."

 

Yeah, I know, it sounds cheesy when written down like that, but I enjoy it in comic form.

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Got the conclusion to "Mother Russia" this week. It was very good. The whole storyline was definetly the best Punisher arc in far too long.

 

It also contained perhaps the best description of Frank Castle I've ever heard:

 

Russian General(upon surveying all the carnage Frank caused): That was no American. It was a Russian who was born there by mistake.

 

 

*tries to resist the urge to make yet another "In Russia..." joke*

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I visited my comic shop for the first time in about a month and a half yesterday, and came away with 4 new Punishers: the first three issues of "Up is down and black is white," and the terrific one-shot "The Cell."

 

So far, the new storyline looks good. I liked how there was an entire issue dedicated to Nicky Cavella. It's good to see Frank finally have a decent, and equally twisted nemesis. I do hope he stays dead when Frank gets to him, though, and doesn't come back a few issues later sporting a pair of tits.

 

Also, I've read Hitman in its entirety, and after the newest Punisher issue, I'm pretty sure that O'Brien is meant to be McAllister, the NSA agent who wanted to run away with Tommy towards the end of Hitman--the tech guy even asks her if she wants to go back to that name. I know Hitman was DC universe, but still.

 

"The Cell" was definetly the best of the new issues. I've been getting tired of these constant six-issue storylines, so it was nice to get a complete, compact short story for once. I haven't read many of the old-school punisher issues so I'm not sure if we ever saw Frank actually kill those responsible for the death of his family, so I don't know if this version of his revenge is retconned or not. I really don't care because "The Cell" was just about perfectly paced, and the big reveal came as a total surprise.

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I think in the first issue on MAX maybe even the first page Frank says that those responsible for the murder of his family are long dead, so i'm not to sure about the continuity, but The Cell is a great story and the reason i'm loving this run, what ever you bitches say about it.

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The Cell is the best Punisher story I've read in some time. Also this new "Up is Down and Black is White" arc has been great. Ennis is really finding his stroke right now.

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I hope Ennis lets Nicky live. Because he seems to building him up as something REALLY big will go down, or someting very lame. If he lives and Frank doesnt know it. I want to see mass carnage. Blood, Guts, boobies, bodies dropping like flies.

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Even for all its seriousness, theres still alot of humour in the Max editions. Even Ennis can be waaayy over the top for his own good, but he's struck a good balance with this series.

 

I can remember off hand the many times I've laughed out loud at the utter levels of absurdity he'll sink to, to get a laugh out of the reader, especially in the Marvel Knights series...

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Just picked up the new "Mother Russia" trade today, so I'm obviously behind, but I really loved it. "Kitchen Irish" didn't really do it for me, but this arc seemed to swing Ennis back on track, and from the sound of things, he just gets better down the line

 

I'm tickled by the way he writes Nick Fury.

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Mother Russia was pretty good. When that little motherfucker snuck down the elevator shaft, y'all know how, and then he went and fucked Frank up...that was good shit. And, of course, how Frank deals with him is preatty goddamn cool, too. It just gets better Mojo.

 

I love Nick Cavella as a bad guy. The Nick Cavella issue (Up is Down Black is White #2?) was one of my all time favorites - and Big Pun wasn't even in it! I hope he remains a constant thorn in Frank's side.

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Yeah, I liked the scene when he did for the Mongolian too.

 

"I'm twisting his leg off like a drumstick when I realize I'm frightening the kid."

 

Frank Castle, ladies and gentlemen. Parent of the year.

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as the series continues i am left with only one possible conclusion.

 

take into account the fact that this is the PUNISHER has he was always meant to be, this is Frank Castle written as he was destined to be written.

 

so either Garth lives for ever and while living for ever gives us a Punisher script every month or when his run ends Frank goes to Rykers permanantly to await his post apocalyptical death as for told in The End.

 

I just can't see someone else writing Frank to the standard and consistinency that Ellis has written him.

 

It's a shame that Marvel would never for a second consider permanantly retiring the character.

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