Jump to content
Mark

Denise Mina on HELLBLAZER

Recommended Posts

yes, they had Eddie Campbell filloing in along with delano for 5 months in order to get Jenkins

 

To be fair, Campbell was supposed to be the regular writer so the stop-gap there was just Delano's one issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... The Da Vinci Code...

 

... it's official now: I'm not getting back to the title after Carey leaves after all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... The Da Vinci Code...

 

... it's official now: I'm not getting back to the title after Carey leaves after all.

 

Uhm... from all I've heard, Mina seems to be a better writer than Brown, so I wouldn't worry too much. Granted, I haven't read any of her books yet...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not just that - her storyline is clearly not influenced by the da Vinci code, and the reference is made purely in relation to the concept of apocryphal biblical texts.

 

I like the sound of the plot, actually - it reminds me slightly of Jenkins' Last Man Standing arc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What James said. Don't be a pillock, Luis - at least wait until there's been more than one interview with the woman about her run before rushing to ill-thought-out judgements. For the broad-comparison purposes of non-comic-literate newspapers, a good percentage of Vertigo's horror/fantasy output over the last decade could be compared with the Da Vinci Code - let's wait and see what gets said when Mina's actually allowed to talk about her plot in any detail, shall we?

 

I got a very polite e-mail back, by the way, which said much the same as the one James received a few weeks ago - she'll be coming here to talk about her arc as soon as she's allowed to, she's checked out the site and board already, but for now she's under orders to shut the fuck up about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Da Vinci Code" is a hot word right now. Anything coming out that a reviewer doesn't know how to describe, they'll pick the hottest thing that is slightly similar. Usually, it means shite!

I remember the same thing with "Matrix" and the "Sixth Sense". Everyone knew what those movies were and loved them, so any story with a "twist ending" that came out around that time, reviewers would rave, "It has shades of the 'Sixth Sense'". It's called pop-culture intellectualism. It means you're a precocious bore who name drops whatever is popular in society at the time to sound like you're some dime store intellectual.

 

So, Rosa, to be fair, the guy who wrote this article is a fucking moron! I wouldn't listen to a damn thing he said! I'm sure he was the same guy who was name dropping "Matrix" with any sci-fi story that came out when that movie was hot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was Ms Mina who said it, and not in the context that you describe.

 

The volume will see Constantine being tricked into coming to Glasgow to prevent a demon siphoning off souls from the city's near-dead.

 

He encounters a powerful magician employed as a planner in Glasgow City Council, who's trying to wangle permission to build on Park Circus.

 

If he's successful, he will create a powerful symbol in the Gnostic gospels - the gospels rejected by the ruthless Roman emperor, Constantine, who recognised Christianity.

 

"I've always been interested in Canon Law and the politics of the church - that's all in The Da Vinci Code," says Mina, "so loads of people are familiar with that."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, guess I should've reread it. My condemnation of the mass media still stands though!

 

From the quote James put up, I would say Rosa is completely blowing that one little comment completely out of context. She was applying the equivalency of "The Da Vinci Code" with her interest in Canonical Law (as a well known example of her interest), NOT with her story in "Hellblazer" necessarily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, Rosa, to be fair, the guy who wrote this article is a fucking moron! I wouldn't listen to a damn thing he said!

 

But I didn't listen to him; I listened to Denise:

 

"I've always been interested in Canon Law and the politics of the church - that's all in The Da Vinci Code," says Mina, "so loads of people are familiar with that."

 

If I'm correct, this is her speaking, not the article guy writing. You two could rationalise it all you want, but I only see an author who read and probably enjoyed the worst book ever written in the history of mankind, and now wants to make Hellblazer part of that modern market niche about the Christian Church and 'facts' about it and other related crap! It's already a genre in itself, whatever way an author twists it to make it 'fresh' - but not too fresh! Readers love familiarity after all - and so do we really need a comic about it too?

 

This title has had some really bad moments in its long existence, but I never thought one day an arc could be explained as 'Angel Heart meets The Da Vinci Code.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You talk so much shit, Luis.

 

First of all, you have no idea whether she enjoyed the Da Vinci Code or not, since no opinion was expressed by her (hence, I suppose, your use of "probably" as a get-out clause, which doesn't work because you're still leaning towards her enjoying it despite having no evidence at all). Hell, it doesn't even say that she read the book, only that she's aware of what it's about.

 

Secondly, even if she did read and enjoy it, that doesn't preclude her story from being awful, nor does it mean that she's ripped it off wholesale.

 

Finally, the plot laid out in this interview shares no similarities with the Da Vinci code. She references the book to make it clear that the ideas she's exploring are understood by many people, not just those with an interest in "Canon Law and the politics of the church" .

 

Incidentally, I'm not "rationalising" anything, I'm merely coming to a conclusion based on the facts presented. You're irrationalising by, as ever, going off on flights of fantasy and condeming a work of literature because of what you imagine it to be, not what it is.

 

In conclusion: if you've decided that this is going to be a "bad moment" in Hellblazer's history nine months before the first part is published then you're basically a complete and utter fucking tool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
but I only see an author who read and probably enjoyed the worst book ever written in the history of mankind, and now wants to make Hellblazer part of that modern market niche about the Christian Church and 'facts' about it and other related crap!

 

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? You "only" see a single sentence, which doesn't actually say anything about what Mina's story will be about (in fact, as James points out, it doesn't even say what you seem so determined to read it as saying), in an article which, on the whole, sounds really rather promising.

 

Dude, seriously. You're freaking out about something we've heard absolutely NOTHING substantial about. Give it a fucking rest, would you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

cartman.gif

 

 

"Seriously guys, you need to get that sand out your vagina"

 

:)

 

I'm hopeful, but I'm not gonna speak either way until I've read issue 1 (or 216 or whatever)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Tom in Edinburgh Airport

Good lord! Is Luis being objectionable?

 

What a surprise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well. Even *if* Denise Mina's plot should turn out to be derivative (which I'm not convinced of - we really do not know enough about it yet to make *any* kind of judgement about it) - to be honest, I don't read Hellblazer for originality.

 

I may be stating an unpopular opinion here (and I only just joined the forum, too! The audacity! ;-)) but: Hellblazer, IMHO, is not a very original comic. In the wide field, and by now fairly long history of horror/dark fantasy, we've seen it all before: the caustic, somewhat tortured antihero, the demons, and angels, and monsters, and gods; the urban myths, the apocalypses. HB uses tropes that have been used at least dozens, maybe hundreds of times before; it uses them well, most of the time, and it sometimes twists them a bit, but they're still tropes. What turns HB into a winner, at least for me, is *one* thing: a frelling fascinating protagonist. I read HB for character - and mainly for just one character, John Constantine. I want to understand him, figure him out, see what happens to him and how he reacts... Everything else is just windowdressing, as far as I am concerned (albeit a kind of windowdressing that I enjoy and would miss if it were to disappear ;-)). So what I'm mainly interested in is how good Denise Mina is at characterisation and character development. And what I read about her books seems to bode fairly well for that.

 

*waits for the flames* (Well, okay, maybe not - you're all nice, civilised guys, right? ;-))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Start with Garnethill and work forwards in chronological order.

 

Picked a copy up on the way home Friday, looking forward to getting into it - the blurb on the back sounds good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rented it from Morpeth library on Friday myself - haven't started it yet, but I'm looking forward to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and Luis comes with such a negative prejudice regarding ANYTHING Hellblazer related, that he missed out on a very POSITIVE aspect of his conspiracy theory about miss Mina's HB arc resembling The da Vinci Code : imagine TDVC as seen through the eyes of John Constantine, who knows it's just a load of old bollocks and rubbish, making fun of the pillocks seeking the lost lineage of Jesus or whatever...?

 

could turn into a nice little social/pseudoreligious commentary or something. So it is all up to miss Mina's skill as a writer. Truth to be told, a lot of Hellblazer storylines sound darn silly when you try to retell them to anyone. It's all in the writing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and Luis comes with such a negative prejudice regarding ANYTHING Hellblazer related,

 

Ah, he the resident troll, then? (I'm new here...)

 

that he missed out on a very POSITIVE aspect of his conspiracy theory about miss Mina's HB arc resembling The da Vinci Code : imagine TDVC as seen through the eyes of John Constantine, who knows it's just a load of old bollocks and rubbish, making fun of the pillocks seeking the lost lineage of Jesus or whatever...?

 

Yes, that could be fun indeed. :)

 

It's all in the writing.

 

Yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and Luis comes with such a negative prejudice regarding ANYTHING Hellblazer related,

 

Ah, he the resident troll, then? (I'm new here...)

 

 

no, actually, that would be me. Luis is a smart gent from portugal who just has bad prejudice against current and upcoming Hellblazer writers and European films.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
no, actually, that would be me. Luis is a smart gent from portugal who just has bad prejudice against current and upcoming Hellblazer writers and European films.

 

Ah, thanks.

 

No doubt I'll learn my way around here, given a bit of time. You all seem to know each other quite well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the rules of engagement are pretty simple, and i have the most important one in my sig. :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chuck Austen hates Rogan! You mean spirited little Troll, you!

 

Anyway, I believe that "Hellblazer" was very original (most of the time) during the Delano years, but has progressed to how you describe it, Hmpf. Bound to happen anyway!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyway, I believe that "Hellblazer" was very original (most of the time) during the Delano years, but has progressed to how you describe it, Hmpf. Bound to happen anyway!

 

I must admit I don't really know what the larger genre landscape looked like in the late 80s/early 90s. I was a bit too young to read stuff like Hellblazer then. ;-) (Well, technically, in the early 90s I was beginning to be about the right age to read HB, but at the time I didn't even realise I liked comics, let alone 'horror' comics. My love of comics is a fairly recent thing, or at least a recently reawakened thing - used to love them as a kid, then forgot about them for about twenty years...) So, while I have *some* awareness of the past of the genre, I can only truly compare HB to the genre landscape (in comics, and in general horror/dark fantasy) as it is today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...