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Spider Man 3:SPOILERS!!!

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Mick, a major point of reviewing is to be aware of ones own bias.

(See the Superman 2 thread really)

That's why I believe reviewing (especially professional reviewing) is more than just someones opinion.

It's not just an opinion, it's an informed opinion.

Abhi's film posts show evidence of how formed and informed his opinions really are.

There are films that I don't like, but that I can still appreciate are qualitive and well made.

 

Furthermore If you're going to be stating ones opinion, back it up and attempt to justify it.

 

I agree with Abhi's film "oppinions" in general, but most impressively is that he backs it up.

They are well "reviewed".

 

I deliberately referenced Spiderman 2, in my "review".

I'm treating Spiderman in terms of itself really.

Christ I'd like a Michael Mann Spiderman (Although I do wish that all the character scenes were handled by Jarmusch) or something, but that would be missing much of the point really.

Now that is not to say that Spiderman movies can't be both intelligent, meaningful and thoroughly entertaining at the same time.

Kurosawa's once eloquently described the difference between an Entertaining film and and an Entertainment film.

 

Even as mere entertianment.

Spiderman 3 was nowhere as profficient as either Spiderman 1 or 2.

That's in terms of the quality of script, dialogue acting and special effects.

This is also judging/comparing it in terms of itself really and the rest of Sam Raimi's output.

If I wasn't, I'd moan about how I wish James Cameron (My ultimate "dumb" film director) and Leonardo Dicaprio should have done the first film blah blah.

 

The do it better yourself argument, personally holds no weight and I'd rather have spunked 5 quid on Spiderman 3 written by Abhi too.

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Mick, I called it a crappy movie because it has a bad script, bad acting (for the most part), bad pacing and bad structuring. It didn't appeal to me because it's a crappy movie. Which is completely different from 'it is a crappy movie because it didn't appeal to me'. I did not say that second thing.

 

I know the difference between a crappy movie and a movie that doesn't appeal to me and the two things are not necessarily the same. There are many crappy movies that appeal to me ( for example, half the horror movies I love) and there are many good movies that DON'T appeal to me. Spiderman 3 is a plain and simple bad film. I would have called it a bad film even if I had liked it and - in fact - I DID like parts of it.

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Abhis right, Mick. If youre willing to pay for something that has the potential to be good (And markets itself accordingly), but it turns out different, since the producer didnt give a hoot

 

Yeah i'm sure they didn't care, try or get stress out over a film with a huge budget and fan base....

Probably no prssure at all in fact i could even see spideys zipper :-)

 

I didnt talk about this particular situation, only the situation in general. Remember, i didnt see the film yet, so i cant pass judgment.

 

And if you look around the internet, there is much disappointment going on with Spiderman 3, for reasons i cannot yet get. But if it helps anything, my little bro and my mum loved it.

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Like i said i i'm not going to review it but it pisses me off when people just plain call films crap i've heard bad things but like i said only really from the internet never from anyone i've spoken to, most people i know loved it. But to sharply call it crap seems too far.

 

the thing that strikes me is its getting slagged off because it changed directions from the first two. It just seems a shame that they've gone through major effort to make these films simply to have some guys on the internet slag it off and put people off seeing it because it wasn't the way they liked it.

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Like i said i i'm not going to review it but it pisses me off when people just plain call films crap i've heard bad things but like i said only really from the internet never from anyone i've spoken to, most people i know loved it. But to sharply call it crap seems too far.

 

the thing that strikes me is its getting slagged off because it changed directions from the first two. It just seems a shame that they've gone through major effort to make these films simply to have some guys on the internet slag it off and put people off seeing it because it wasn't the way they liked it.

 

 

You don't like Abhi's review, but he could turn around and say 'Mick, lets see you do better'

:laugh:

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Bloated, over-long, some fun bits, too many sub-plots, obviously written by commitee.

 

Mick, you appear to know fuck all about film-making or criticism

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Like i said i i'm not going to review it but it pisses me off when people just plain call films crap i've heard bad things but like i said only really from the internet never from anyone i've spoken to, most people i know loved it. But to sharply call it crap seems too far.

 

the thing that strikes me is its getting slagged off because it changed directions from the first two. It just seems a shame that they've gone through major effort to make these films simply to have some guys on the internet slag it off and put people off seeing it because it wasn't the way they liked it.

Uhm...should i then say "Bloodrayne" is a good film because Uwe Boll intended it so? And am i to blame to want more from a man who calls himself a director?!

I understand what youre saying with "People calling a film (or anything, for that matter) plainly crap"- I dont like it either when some people review a flick or game and dont know what the fuck theyre talking about or just simply want to bash or nitpick their way trough the article, respectively comparing it intro shreds.

But Abhi and Testy gave good reasons, id say. Plus, they didnt call it outright "godawful". When there was something positive to mention, they did. And what couldnt attract their liking werent just details, but the factors which make films, like acting, pacing, editing, plotting, directing and writing. They didnt even mention minor facets like sound/music-design, premise or looks.

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Mick, if someone is of the opinion that a particular movie is crap then their opinion is perfectly valid and they are welcome to express it on the board. Obviously people say that films are bad because they didn't meet their expectations. That's just a blatantly obvious statement of fact, not some kind shocking revelation about the critical mindset.

 

Also, whether or not someone could direct a film better than Sam Raimi has abso-fucking-lutely no bearing on whether their opinions are acceptable or not. I'm not an architect, but I'd still complain if some masonry fell on my head, or if a house that I'd commissioned didn't have any windows.

 

Don't shout people down just because they disagree with you, or question the validity of their opinions based on their CVs. Challenging someone's opinions by putting forward your own thoughts on the movie as part of a civilised discussion is cool, because that's what a message board is for. Undermining them through absurd playground logic isn't.

 

Hell even saying "well I disagree - Spider-Man 3 is ace" and leaving it at that is fine.

 

It's also worth noting that Abhi is an extremely eloquent chap with a huge knowledge of movies and that he put forward some of his criticisms perfectly reasonably (albeit with a bit of hyperbole) and indicated that somebody else on the board had said everything else he wanted to express. To subtley suggest that his opinions are actually just caused by resentment that the film is different from the first two is hugely unfair so that you can dismiss their opinons instead of accepting that other people don't agree with you, but that they're not necessarily wrong.

 

Stop spouting this inane shit. Ta.

 

Now let's all get back to talking about Spider-Man 3.

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Although I will agree that given other choices, Venom might be the most interesting post-1970s Spider-villain.

More so than The Rose, Hobgoblin or Black Cat?

 

Aww....the attempt by us who haven't seen the movie to turn this into a comic discussion, because we feel left out, is going ignored, I see....

 

I said "might", because I was thinking of the Hobgoblin as being more interesting.

It depends on whether you think of Black Cat as an actual villain or not.

I never cared for The Rose though.

Carrion was from the 70s, wasn't he? He was introduced really early in Spectacular, so I think so.

Hell, Shriek might be slightly more interesting because of that DeMatteis story-arc....

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, Mick, a movie being made for the "movie-goers" doesn't make a movie a good movie, it just makes it accessible.

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Mick, if someone is of the opinion that a particular movie is crap then their opinion is perfectly valid

 

Well i've been called numerous times for saying even 'oh i dont like it'.

As it appears anyone whos 'well written' and had acess to the internet becomes a critic, and the knowledge of the movie business is actually having the time to see countless movies, no one here has actually worked on a blockbuster movie and yet it seems and slag it off to hell again because it just didn't suit them.

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Mick discussing Denise Mina's run on Hellblazer:

Mark, fine about the husband.

 

But the fact she used her city for her whole fucking run.

 

I just feel the whole run was a bag of shit it started with an ok idea but she lost the plot.

 

Not to belabour something that should die, but "pot, kettle, black".

(Unless, of course, Mick has written a famous internationally-published DC comic book series, of course.)

 

Opinion-A belief that rests on grounds insufficient to produce certainty. The expression of a formal judgment. Impression, sentiment, view.

 

Moving on?

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Well i've been called numerous times for saying even 'oh i dont like it'.

 

If those people called you on it by saying why they liked it and trying to come up with explanations for why some of your criticisms might have been unfair (ie. you complain about a plot hole and they point out that the hole actually has a reasonable explanation) then that's fine. If they called you on it by saying that your opinions are worthless then that's not cool at all.

 

And if other people aren't qualified to say that a film is bad because they never made a blockbuster then you're not qualified to say that it's good for exactly the same reason. So we might as well shut down these boards completely since nobody can say anything at all.

 

no one here has actually worked on a blockbuster movie

 

Read what I said. This argument is bullshit and I don't want it to be brought up again. Unless you're willing to actually engage in an adult discussion, I'd suggest you vacate this and other movie threads forthwith and leave them for everyone else to enjoy.

 

So.

 

SPIDER-MAN 3

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The plot was a miss - so no matter how good the script, acting, effects etc were there was no escaping that a bunch of disparate and often contrived story elements were loosely tied together. BUT, they were tied together with spidey-web so, you know, it wasn't a bad film per se.

 

Just disappointing 'cos you know they can all do better!

 

 

My favourite bit was that me and the missus, um... 'Egon', were sitting behind an eight-year-old fully dressed up in his Spider-Man outfit. At one point he turns to his Dad and says 'Daddy, why did they just do that?' to which Daddy turned round and said 'Sorry kiddo, I have absolutely no idea!'

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At one point he turns to his Dad and says 'Daddy, why did they just do that?' to which Daddy turned round and said 'Sorry kiddo, I have absolutely no idea!'

 

Haha! This is probably the best capsule review of the movie you could read :D

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Oh, and where the fuck did Bernard the Senile Butler come from???? It was positively Lynchian when a wizened old midget butler comes and tells Green Goblin Jr that he loves him and his father as family. Alfred that dude was not.

:blush:

Even worse though was the...

Bernard the Senile Butler- Oh by the way Master Goblin I love you and your dad wasn't actually killed by Spiderman.

Green Goblin Jr- Really?

Bernard the Senile Butler- Yes.

Green Goblin Jr- Shit...all this time...so..wait!...Um why didn't you tell me that two years ago Alfred?

Bernard the Senile Butler- Perhaps I could differ you to the to the script writer as I've only recently been retconned into existence.

 

Did anyone get the feeling he was being set up as the Vulture?

Or am I in desperate Spidey villian seeking mode?

 

A close second though was Dr Lizard (Bored off of his tits) as he was only examining THE SENTIENT SYMBIOTE FROM ANOTHER PLANET!!! under his microscope on a quite and unassuming evening at home.

He's lost an arm afterall, what does he care for the biggest discovery in science? Ever.

Just another day for Mr Connors I suppose.

 

Then there's the Green Goblin's miracle the next day or the day after face healing was a hoot too (Sure it's probably the effects of the goblin juice/mist) but it' still bad.

Very bad.

 

And seriously Spidey posing by the flag?

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I'm definitely watching this film, though possibly not in the spirit Raimi intended.

Presumably I'll be able to find a used DVD cheap on Amazon in three months or so...

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Heh, yeah, some good points, Rohne. The Spidey posing by the Stars and Stripes bit elicited a collective groan from the entire theatre.

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I was just watching Spider-Man 2 on the FX network and I noticed Bernard "the Senile Butler" is in it. He makes some comment about Harry's drinking just before Doc Ock shows up for a planning session. I am assuming it was the theatrical release and not some director's cut and Raimi made sure to squeeze him in just to justify his existence in Spider-Man 3.

 

It still doesn't excuse that crappy, out of nowhere explaination.

 

One more gripe; just how many time does Spidey lose/remove his mask in a movie in public? It's a wonder half of Manhattan doesn't know his secret identity. It was borderline believable in the first two, but in the third it was just not believable. Especially above a huge crowd of people in daylight.

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Heh, yeah, some good points, Rohne. The Spidey posing by the Stars and Stripes bit elicited a collective groan from the entire theatre.

He posed at least once before on a flag tough. Or is this one different?

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I was just watching Spider-Man 2 on the FX network and I noticed Bernard "the Senile Butler" is in it. He makes some comment about Harry's drinking just before Doc Ock shows up for a planning session. I am assuming it was the theatrical release and not some director's cut and Raimi made sure to squeeze him in just to justify his existence in Spider-Man 3.

Hm. Ill check my copy.

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I was just watching Spider-Man 2 on the FX network and I noticed Bernard "the Senile Butler" is in it. He makes some comment about Harry's drinking just before Doc Ock shows up for a planning session.

I was just going to post the same thing. :cool:

 

Watching SM2 last night almost made me want to give SM3 a try. Almost.

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Mick discussing Denise Mina's run on Hellblazer:

Mark, fine about the husband.

 

But the fact she used her city for her whole fucking run.

 

I just feel the whole run was a bag of shit it started with an ok idea but she lost the plot.

 

 

 

Blast!

 

As for the butler he seemed a bit like strazyskis (spelt wrong maybe) Jarvis from Asm

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Well it was a mess, a good mess perhaps if there is such a thing, but certainly the worst of the three films.

 

The good stuff...

 

The New Goblin's outfit was as bad as preview photos suggested, still I found Harry to be the most interesting presence in the entire film, still the butler who emerges to resolve his inner turmoil was a cheap ploy to get Mountain Dew Goblin into the final fight.

 

The Sandman was excellent, but the character is criminally underused no question about it, the scene where he first forms is a thing of beauty almost.

 

Despite his villain being a pretty one dimensional character, I thought Topher Grace did a good job with the limited screentime devoted to Venom. There has to be more mileage in the Spider-Man vs Anti Spider-Man battle than we get in this film though.

 

The J. Jonah Jameson scenes were great as always, shame there seemed to be so few of them.

 

The bad stuff...

 

The pacing and structure was all over the place.

 

Emo Peter, so bad its good but its just bad really, Mary Jane singing (repeatedly).

 

The symbiote origin, seemed very much like an after-thought. I'm not asking for the complicated origin as depicted in the comics but something a little more developed might have made it more interesting. Also why the heck was Peter struggling to remove the suit when he seemingly removed it and put it back on without any problems at earlier points in the film.

 

The final fight scene with annoying news media commentary.

 

Too many convenient plot developments without explanation etc. Too much plot full stop really with a less than steady hand at the editing position.

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