The Vertigo Thread

[GenGris 0]

Like I said, I shall try and be good - and try to avoid reading it.

 

So I havent opened the seal on that one .... yet.

I'll see how long I last.

[Abhimanyu 20]

Like I said, I shall try and be good - and try to avoid reading it.

 

So I havent opened the seal on that one .... yet.

I'll see how long I last.

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I'm telling you, you will be detracting from one of the greatest comic book reading experiences of your life if you read Sandman out of order. Do not do so under ANY circumstances WHATSOEVER. Collect them all and Then start reading. You will thank us for being repetitive about it later.

 

Fuck, I envy you the experience of being able to read Sandman for the first time. I remember my own astounded sense of awe and admiration......

[GenGris 0]

well, it is hard to collect them here so i'll try to wait, but cant wait forever...

 

i must admit. i found volume 1 awesome.....

[jaynova 1]

Ah well, just wanted to tell you, James - that  I am trying to refrain from reading The Kindly Ones. 

 

Before you think I have tremendously wont power - its because I got several more .... apparently the sales person took me at my word and dug up all their Sandman ones - so I got, aside from the first - Preludes and Nocturnes the following ones ....

 

Vol. 3  - Dream Country

Vol.  5 - A Game of You (like she said

Vol. 6 - Fables and Reflections

Vol. 8 - World's End

Vol. 9 - The Kindly Ones

 

and Midnight Days.

 

The effect the stories have on me is that I have this want to check my book of mythologies ...

 

 

But still, no Hellblazer ones.  I wonder why?  Oh well, maybe they'll get when the sale is over....

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Like James says, read them in order...if you have to read some now, you could probably get away with reading Dream Country, but skip "Facade" until you have read the issue from Preludes and Nocturns called "the sound of her wings". Unles you already know something about Dream's sister. (well, the first sister we meet, anyway.)

 

 

(I'm only skimming this thread, so I may have missed if you've read P&E yet)

[James 38]

well, it is hard to collect them here so i'll try to wait, but cant wait forever...

 

i must admit. i found volume 1 awesome.....

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It just gets better and better from that point onwards.

 

(with a bit of a dip in A Game of You - that story is always divisive)

[Mark 333]

Note for people less diplomatic than James: for "divisive" read "shit".

[GenGris 0]

Well, I did read that. I figured i'd get vol. 2 and 4 by Oct. IF i get them at all -

 

Not quite in order, but well.... yes, I didnt like A Game of You, even if I did like the title...

 

I like Dream's stories better. I mean those wherein he is the main protagonist instead of just being there ... which is why Volume 1 is awesome, because it was all him.

[James 38]

Note for people less diplomatic than James: for "divisive" read "shit".

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Or, rather "shit, but somehow with the power to convince people that it's brilliant".

 

Although it does contain a talking press rat named Wilkinson, an inclusion that I love for obvious reasons.

[Grinning Fellow 2]

I'll admit that everything that happened in the "real world" of A Game of You was pretty lame, but I enjoyed the stuff that happened in The Land.

 

I wouldn't go as far as calling it "shit".

 

Maybe: Fairly lame, with some cool parts.

 

And I share James' love of Wilkinson (although for different reasons).

[TheMojoPin 0]

It ain't shit.

 

It's far from being the strongest arc, but it's just as far from being "shit," too.

[GenGris 0]

I wouldnt say twas shit either.

Just that it was a little wobbly, but that could be because I missed 2 volumes...

 

See i didnt understand who the woman was - and may I ask who is she - The person Dream had the compact with? Twasnt Barbie (and what a name! I guess it was deliberate)

 

Funny choice about the cuckoo. I saw that in one of those shows (National Geog, Animal Planet - whatever) - and the descriptions were so apt.

 

i am not the most patient person in the world, unfortunately. Still.

 

I finished Good Omens. Cool. Reminds me of a few choice discussions with certain friends.

[Christian 898]

Yes, the choice of the name for the girl, "Barbie", is indeed deliberate and relevant to the story.

[Mark 333]

See i didnt understand who the woman was - and may I ask who is she - The person Dream had the compact with?

 

It's been a while since I read it, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter. She's nobody important, in the grand scheme of things - just a person for whom Dream created this dream-world, and who died years ago. We've never seen her before, and we never see her again. Presumably, the Dreaming is full of skerries like this, with new ones being created and old ones being destroyed all the time.

 

Of course I was exaggerating a little by dismissing A Game Of You as "shit". But I really do think it's the worst volume of Sandman by a considerable distance. It's dull, cack-handedly patronising and sexist, and Gaiman's a good enough writer to have known better. That's without even mentioning the mess made of the art by having Colleen Dorran come in and do a fill-in issue in a style so jarringly at odds with the rest of the book. I actually like Dorran's work a lot, but it's horribly out of place there. I'm sure it was unavoidable, but it doesn't make the book any easier to like.

[Christian 898]

Sexist? You mean against men, I presume? But, that's not called that! That's called "equality", remember?

 

Anyway, I do agree with Mark about "A Game of You".

[GenGris 0]

Well, the bookstore called an hour ago to tell me they have the following:

 

Volume 2 - The Doll's House

Volume 10 - The Wake

 

The Constantine adaptation - I can almost hear a lot of you groan

 

and a hard bound graphic novel supposedly of the Sandman but its not in the list....

 

I am supposed to get in 3 days but skeds prevent me from going to the business district until the weekend. I guess my recent purchases stood me in good stead so they are willing to hold them for me until the weekend!

[sethos 5]

That's without even mentioning the mess made of the art by having Colleen Dorran come in and do a fill-in issue in a style so jarringly at odds with the rest of the book. I actually like Dorran's work a lot, but it's horribly out of place there. I'm sure it was unavoidable, but it doesn't make the book any easier to like.

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Dorran always blamed the inker, Vince Locke, for the crappiness of the art.

[James 38]

and a hard bound graphic novel supposedly of the Sandman but its not in the list....

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What's it called? Sounds like it's either The Dream Hunters or Midnight Days.

[sethos 5]

and a hard bound graphic novel supposedly of the Sandman but its not in the list....

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What's it called? Sounds like it's either The Dream Hunters or Midnight Days.

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Midnight Days was never in hardcover, I bet it's either Dream Hunters or Endless Nights.

[James 38]

I meant Endless Nights.

[lyra 0]

[

 

Dorran always blamed the inker, Vince Locke, for the crappiness of the art.

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where did you read this?

[sethos 5]

Dorran always blamed the inker, Vince Locke, for the crappiness of the art.

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where did you read this?

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Hanging Out with The Dream King, a book of interviews with some of Gaiman's collaborators on Sandman. lemme see if I can find the quote.. ah yes, only I fucked up: it wasn't Vince Locke, it was George Pratt:

 

Then I was inked on another Sandman story by George Pratt and it was just a disaster.

Chapter 3 of A Game of You [issue 34]?

 

Yes, It was horrible. I have not spoken to George Pratt since. One of his friends told me, "Well, George said, 'I don't care. Her work is no good. I'm going on vacation,' and he inked it in two days." I said, "I'm gonna break his fingers, if he ever comes near me." So every time he sees me, he flees [Laughs.] I'll never forget it as long as I live. That book really hurt my reputation. After that isue came out, Harlan Ellison comes up to me and says - first words out of his mouth, swear to God - [impersonating Ellison] "What the hell happened to you on that issue of Sandman?"I said, "Harlan, it ain't me. I swear to God. I can prove it, because I save all my pencils."For years, I was walking around with pencils for that book in my portfolio, so if anyone gave me shit, I would just rip them out and say, "This is what it was supposed to look like!" Even the art director at DC, Dick Giardino, came up to me and apologized for it. He'd been called in to pinch hit on the last pages of inks and he was very embarrassed, saying he was told to keep the style consistent. He felt terrible about it because everyone thought it looked awful.

I don't really know what George Pratt was thinking about when he inked that job because I only got a second-hand story about it. I don't care what went on in his head. Maybe he liked what he did, but I thought it was the worst ink job of my entire career, and I've had some bad ones. George is the most marvelous painter and I respect him. However, my pencils weren't enhanced by his inks. There was even some talk about having the inks re-done before DC collected thebook in graphic novel forat, but they didn't do that after all. Neil called to apologize about that.

[Abhimanyu 20]

Of course I was exaggerating a little by dismissing A Game Of You as "shit". But I really do think it's the worst volume of Sandman by a considerable distance. It's dull, cack-handedly patronising and sexist, and Gaiman's a good enough writer to have known better. That's without even mentioning the mess made of the art by having Colleen Dorran come in and do a fill-in issue in a style so jarringly at odds with the rest of the book. I actually like Dorran's work a lot, but it's horribly out of place there. I'm sure it was unavoidable, but it doesn't make the book any easier to like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree entirely. Its the one volume of Sandman i havent bothered to buy or to reread, which says a lot. I enjoyed the 'reality' bits but the whole fantasy world is just tedious. It didnt gel at all with the rest of the series. The fact that any part of Sandman did anything less than enthrall me and blow my mind into quivering, awed little gibs was quite shocking to me. Though I think Mark is imagining the sexist bit

He sees sexism in everything, that boy.

[GenGris 0]

I dont know. I'll find out this weekend. If it is Endless Nights, is that any good?

 

I really dont understand why they havent had any deliveries for HB. I mean, I've had 2 "pickup" calls for Sandman, but none for JohnCon. It irritates me.

 

But I guess I'll buy the Constantine adaptation anyway... and probably that hard bound book, whatever it is (What I mean by list - is the list found at the back of the graphic novels which details Sandman books and stuff)....

 

And I was reading stuff on Morpheus, as in son of Hynos - and one link lead to a short summary of the Kindly Ones and the Wake, so well - I know what's in there.

 

And would you all still recommend holding off reading 9 by the weekend? By the weekend the only thing missing would be Volumes 4 and 7 and 11 in the Sandman series.

 

btw, will someone tell me again why didnt they do this for JohnCon? have the thing in series, that is.....

[Christian 898]

"Sandman:Endless Nights" is considered the final book in the "Sandman" series. It was written quite a few years after Neil finished writing the "Sandman" series, itself. It's a series of short stories, each one focusing on a member of the Endless.

I really didn't like it. It has no real connection with the rest of the "Sandman" series, and the stories were just sub-par, like stories Gaiman wrote in his spare time that he decided weren't good enough to be published in the actual series.

[sethos 5]

"Sandman:Endless Nights" is considered the final book in the "Sandman" series. It was written quite a few years after Neil finished writing the "Sandman" series, itself. It's a series of short stories, each one focusing on a member of the Endless.

I really didn't like it. It has no real connection with the rest of the "Sandman" series, and the stories were just sub-par, like stories Gaiman wrote in his spare time that he decided weren't good enough to be published in the actual series.

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I disagree. some of them are really good, some are not so good. the Death, Dream, Despair stuff is great, I thought. and the art is uniformly fantastic.