Jump to content
Mr. Tom Willecome

Vertigo has ruined comics, discuss:

Recommended Posts

Well not free milk at least.

 

Anyway to get this back on track if we agree with the hypothesis that Vertigo ruined comics then tracking back we get Hellblazer as written by Delano being the definitive Vertigo title that others were derivatives of as being the root cause of the decline. The early issues were written as a polemic against Thatcher's Britain and thus QED I hypothesize that Margaret Thatcher ruined comics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think it all dates to Swamp Thing (even hellblazer), which is about Man ruining Nature, so i say it is Man who has ruined Vertigo Comics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i think it all dates to Swamp Thing (even hellblazer), which is about Man ruining Nature, so i say it is Man who has ruined Vertigo Comics.

 

This may be a terribly simplistic opinion but I don't think Vertigo ruined comics for the simple reason that most of my favourite comics were produced by them. I know, I guess I'm not looking at the long term situation. It's true that a large chunk of what they produce is self consciously edgy crap but then large chunks of Anything that Anybody produces is crap for the most part. Miramax Studios have released a huge number of my favourite movies of the past decade. This does not mean that they a) ruined the film industry b) dont produce very large proportions of shit films.

 

<cringes>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one talked about my theory about "Planetary". :icon_cry: That Ellis is making some grand statement, by having Stan Lee's first superhero creation and Marvel's first title as the arch-nemesis of "Planetary".

But, I want to discuss it, and I think this is a good place to continue that conversation.

Do you think Ellis is saying that Stan Lee or Marvel have ruined comics?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well not free milk at least.

 

Anyway to get this back on track if we agree with the hypothesis that Vertigo ruined comics then tracking back we get Hellblazer as written by Delano being the definitive Vertigo title that others were derivatives of as being the root cause of the decline. The early issues were written as a polemic against Thatcher's Britain and thus QED I hypothesize that Margaret Thatcher ruined comics.

My head is spinning. But ANY htheory which heaps blame on The Witch is good in my books... :icon_lol:

 

And as my last word in this discussion: The premise of this topic is flawed. Noone and nothing can "ruin" an entire art form, which is what comics are. This doesn't mean that I don't agree with a lot of the criticism raised by TAFKARS, though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was not meant to be a serious debate. Obviously Vertigo hasn't ruined comics. Obviously the idea of ruining comics is ridiculous. Obviously I'm just trying to wind people up here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No one talked about my theory about "Planetary". :icon_cry:  That Ellis is making some grand statement, by having Stan Lee's first superhero creation and Marvel's first title as the arch-nemesis of "Planetary".

But, I want to discuss it, and I think this is a good place to continue that conversation.

Do you think Ellis is saying that Stan Lee or Marvel have ruined comics?!

 

I don't think he is making a grand statement by creating the equivalent of the FF to use as the bad guys in Planetary. I just see it as a continuation of what he did when he created Apollo and the Midnighter as a gay couple.

 

This may be because I have become disillusioned by his writing although not with Planetary, but most of the other stuff he has written recently has disappointed me. He has become like every other hack comic book writer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually what I really think has ruined comics is economics. Well personally I'm not convinced that comics have been ruined but ignoring that for the moment.

 

I think that American comics became just too expensive. The cost of materials and labour rose at a level that outstripped inflation and hence the 'real' cost of comics hit a largely uneconomic level. When this happened they ceased to be a mass market medium and became a niche product.

 

Like most products comics need to sell a certain amount to be a viable prospect for a company to continue production to exceed the fixed costs associated with it.

 

In order to do so they are often designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator to sell the optimal number of copies. This in turn will lead to a reduction in quality oftentimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, Ellis does seem to have become something of a hack with everything except Planetary....

 

Well, the economic factor seems to be a bigger influence on the decision to move away from doing comic books that are kid friendly.

I'm not sure of these statistics, but it seems that comic books are selling a lot more now than they were in the 80s (before the Batman movie) and before.

Yes, the industry collapsed at the end of the "Boom period" of the early-90s, but it's definately recovered a lot since the late-90s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't know what happened to Ellis. I really loved the early Transmet, and the stories he did for Hellblazer were very good. but his more recent shit is just too decompressed, taking ages to ever get to the point, and just aren't very good. the only recent thing of his I really enjoyed was Global Frequency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Tom's defence, every single one of those pitches on Saturday was so monstrously bad that they could quite easily have put any reader off ever wanting to think about a comic book again. Seriously. I didn't even hear the pitch for 'Lord Chit's African Adventure', either, having lost my will to live by that point and nipped out for a drink.

 

Suffice to say that one person described their effort as being 'like Fight Club meets Greenpeace' with a straight face. That was one of the better ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was the Fight Club meets Greenpeace one done by the LARPers?

 

Loved X,Y,Z. And I still reckon the mermaid one is a perfectly acceptable six page future shocks story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hmm...."Fight Club" meets "Greenpeace" (I assume Greenpeace is referring the environmental protection agency here?!)...wouldn't that be Ennis' "Goddess" mini?!

 

Vertigo does seem to have some really nice work coming up in January....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where at the Con was this pitching session? Sounds as if it was total car-wreck entertainment, and I'm very displeased at missing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was pretty much when you showed up on Saturday and is the reason that we didn't meet.

 

DAMN, THOSE HILARIOUSLY SELF-OBSESSED TWATS AND THIER CRINGE-MAKINGLY AMUSING ATTEPTS AT WRITING FUNNY BOOKS! I WANTED TO MEET HUGH!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye, but where was it? I wandered round round downstairs, and had a wee look upstairs where Ian Gibson was being interviewed and some folk were looking at portfolios (incidentally - I saw some young lad, no more than 16, with a portfolio of absolutely gorgeous pencilled proper comic pages. It's just not fucking fair).

 

But I can't shake the feeling I missed a big room where everybody was having fun and getting free beer served by gorgeous women, who all said "shhh! he'll find us" every time I walked passed.

 

Or maybe I'm just paranoid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As you walked into the main room there was a double-doors to your left with some posters and shit on. That was where the pitching sessions and seminar shit was held.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But I can't shake the feeling I missed a big room where everybody was having fun and getting free beer served by gorgeous women, who all said "shhh! he'll find us" every time I walked passed.

 

The women weren't that gorgeous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...