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JohnMcMahon

The Spoiler Filled Infinite Crisis Thread!

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Just reading the Rann-Thanagar War Special, and everything is slotting together in a particularly satisfying fashion. I'm really struggling to think of anything about Infinite Crisis as an event that is at all displeasing to me. Really, it's keeping a daft superhero-fuelled grin firmly plastered on my face every time I read a segment.

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No, we here on this web-site don't have a problem with Judd Winick because of any outside influence. We, at this web-site, judge our opinion of writers on their WRITING alone.

I personally have no idea who Judd Winick is outside of writing comic books, nor do I really care about his life before, outside, or after comic book writing.

He has never impressed me with his writing, and his writing has been getting more shoddy of late.

To each his own. Just throwing it out there as a possabillity. I personally like what he has done and that's saying a lot. I have read at least one Bat title every year since I was ten. Now that doesnt include the period when Azreal was Batman. I haven't read anything yet from Mr. Winnick that hasn't met with my approval yet. Now mind you that is yet. I mean this whole Jason thing could just end up being complete shit.

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While some people out there may be throwing the hate at Winick because of his time on The Real World, I doubt they're more than a tiny minority of his critics. Those of us from Europe aren't even likely to be aware of the show, to be honest (I had to use wikipedia to figure out what you were on about).

 

Me, I'm content to grumble about Winick's work for the rather more pragmatic reason that...well...it's a bit shit. Haven't actually read any of his stuff except for the Batman run, but that really has stunk on toast so far. The utterly pointless "and now the Scarecrow turns into a gigantic slavering monster" arc, the horribly drawn-out Jason Todd plot (it's dominated the book for well over a year now without even a hint of resolution or progression - the basic setup of "Jason Todd's back, and now he's The Punisher - Batman's conflicted about it" was established back when the Red Hood's identity was first revealed, and still hasn't really developed beyond that), the over-reliance on repetitive scenes featuring the tedious, ineffectual Black Mask in place of any of the more interesting Bat-villains, the woeful mischaracterisation of the Joker...it's all just toss. Boring, shallow, badly-paced toss.

 

In my humble opinion, of course.

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Winick's superhero stuff is pretty tedious, but he used to do a series for Oni called The Adventures of Barry Ween, Boy Genius that's one of the funniest comics I've ever read. And Pedro & Me was very well done...he's a genuinely funny writer, he just needs to stay away from the tights crowd.

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While some people out there may be throwing the hate at Winick because of his time on The Real World, I doubt they're more than a tiny minority of his critics. Those of us from Europe aren't even likely to be aware of the show, to be honest (I had to use wikipedia to figure out what you were on about).

 

Me, I'm content to grumble about Winick's work for the rather more pragmatic reason that...well...it's a bit shit. Haven't actually read any of his stuff except for the Batman run, but that really has stunk on toast so far. The utterly pointless "and now the Scarecrow turns into a gigantic slavering monster" arc, the horribly drawn-out Jason Todd plot (it's dominated the book for well over a year now without even a hint of resolution or progression - the basic setup of "Jason Todd's back, and now he's The Punisher - Batman's conflicted about it" was established back when the Red Hood's identity was first revealed, and still hasn't really developed beyond that), the over-reliance on repetitive scenes featuring the tedious, ineffectual Black Mask in place of any of the more interesting Bat-villains, the woeful mischaracterisation of the Joker...it's all just toss. Boring, shallow, badly-paced toss.

 

In my humble opinion, of course.

I should have remembered that everyone outside of the states would probably know fuck all of what I was talking about. I can however see a couple of your points in particular the overreliance on this new version of Black Mask and the miswritten Joker. Still the twists of this story have kept me enthralled enought to keep reading.

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So *that's* how they're "fixing" continuity errors? Superboy punched a hole in reality and it caused all our editorial fuckups? :rolleyes:

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I don't see any problem with it, either. It's a functional enough explanation, and I'd far rather see them get on with telling new stories than faffing around with complicated explanations for "mistakes" in the old ones. As usual, I'd settle for "A Wizard Did It", so anything better than that can only be A-OK by me.

 

More head-punching would be nice, yes.

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Have you seen the Detective Comics OYL preview on Newsarama, Mark ? It read good to me, interested in hearing what a hard-core Batman fan makes of it though. While you're there, check out the 52 preview, which features a funky Gotham/Question page.

 

Anyway, THEY COULDN'T HOLD HIM!

 

Anyone who isn't digging this nonsense shouldn't be reading supehero comics, simple as that.

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I loved Crisis on Infinite Earths, even with all its plotholes and assumptions ("Every time period ever on Earth has merged into one!!").

 

Should I be reading Infinite Crisis? I've thumbed through a few issues and it looked decent enough.

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For the Winick wonderers..... Judd's work on Exiles (Marvel comics) was fantastic. He took a relatively simple (and unoriginal) concept and made it very entertaining. Exiles= Sliders + Quantum Leap.

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Have you seen the Detective Comics OYL preview on Newsarama, Mark ?  It read good to me, interested in hearing what a hard-core Batman fan makes of it though.

 

 

Got the issue this week, as it happens - figured that since I'm going to be reading both the core Bat-books for at least the next year (barring unforeseen crapness from either Dini or Morrison, which I can't really see happening), I may as well jump on at the OYL starting-point, just to get the whole picture. It's a solid comic - not a huge amount happens, but there's a definite sense of occasion. It's got me genuinely curious as to what's been happening over the previous year, and what's going to happen next - so, job well done as an introductory issue, I'd say.

 

As for the changes it heralds for the Bat-universe - well, they're pretty reasonable so far. Batman seems like a bit less of a dick, both Jim Gordon and Harvey Bullock are back (bit of a shame, that last one, just because his down-and-out status in Gotham Central a few years ago was effective - but he was always a good character, so I can't really complain if they've found a decent way to bring him back), and they're finally doing something with Harvey Dent, who got 'fixed' a couple of years ago only to vanish completely from the Bat-books. I'd like to see Two-Face back again, personally, mind - hopefully that's where they're going with this, somehow. Personally, I'd quite like to see Harv realise that he can't fight his true nature, and hideously scar his own face back into the recognizable Two-Face pattern - predictable, perhaps, but a reasonable enough way of restoring a great villain. Anyway, looking forward to finding out where the whole thing's headed.

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I loved the bit with Nightwing waiting for an army that never shows up then calmly taking Superboy to go kick ass all by there selves . Next one should rock .

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Something about that really appealed to me - the next Superman & Batman teaming up together cause, fuckit, this is what they do.

 

Lex getting his boy ready for that big scrap was aces too.

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I hope no one minds if I field that one.

 

Due to the spoiler-tastic details of it, I'll put it in quotes:

 

 

From what I understood of it, Jason was supposed to have lived through the Joker's attack. However, since our world is so damnably evil, he died. So when Superboy Prime started smashing up worlds, he caused some changes to the time stream. Sometimes "setting things right". This caused Jason to be resurrected in his grave.

 

He got out, stumbled away, and was hit by a car, where he was taken to a hospital. They eventually released him when they couldn't find out anything about him. He was left to wander Gotham's slums as a semi-catatonic figure. One night, some thug tried to rough him up for his sleeping space, and he took him down Robin-style. This caused another ex-thug in the alley to realize that this kid and Robin were one in the same.

 

A few discreet phone calls later, and Todd ends up in the hands of Talia, much to the disapproval of Ra's. He remains the same for about a year. Ra's has enough, and demands Talia let him go. As Ra's heads into the Lazarus Pit, Talia shows up and tosses Jason in as well, causing his mind to be jump-started. Talia takes Jason and tells him to return to Gotham.

 

We see that Jason is really torn up about Batman having allowed the Joker to remain living, and, with some e-help from Talia, he gets into contact with Hush.

 

We also see that during the fight between Batman and "Jason" in Hush, it really was Jason at the beginning. He switched spots with Clayface later on.

 

On the whole, it was absolutely stupid.

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I don't care about it being stupid - it's about a dead guy wearing green pixie boots returning from the dead, stupid is part and parcel of the game - but I'd be a bit narked about it being a shit, unnecessary story. If I'd actually paid for it, like.

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This Todd shit for real ? If so why the lame ass Superboy Prime angle ? Why niot just toss old Jason into the pit and be done with it ?

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Your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps they were all high?

 

Until recently, I'd have pointed to Ed Brubaker's current Captain America run as evidence that the "bringing back a dead sidekick as a villain" idea isn't an inherently bad one, but I've soured on that a little after the last few months, so now I'm not sure. Either way, Winnick's story has been utter gash.

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