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JohnMcMahon

The Spoiler Filled Infinite Crisis Thread!

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Did anyone else think that what the Earth-2 Superman wants to do (Bring back his earth as the correct one) is a bit, well... Malevolent?

 

(I don't think that malevolent is the right word, I just can't think of another to describe it.)

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I can see what you mean.

 

"Well, your Earth isn't my Earth, so my Earth is more important!" Not caring about the lives that would be lost to accomplish it.

 

But, at the same time, the writer is trying to get across, "Look what the DCU has become since Crisis! The good, happiness is all being corrupted, destroyed. This Earth is dark and foreboding. Everything's gone wrong. Don't you yearn for the happier, more carefree days of superhero comics?" (embodied in the story by Earth-2)

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But, at the same time, the writer is trying to get across, "Look what the DCU has become since Crisis! The good, happiness is all being corrupted, destroyed. This Earth is dark and foreboding. Everything's gone wrong. Don't you yearn for the happier, more carefree days of superhero comics?" (embodied in the story by Earth-2)

 

I think that's true to a certain extent, and I actually think it's quite a good point, on the whole. But since, as I said, I have no doubt at all that Olde Superman's plan isn't going to entirely succeed, I don't think we're necessarily meant to be entirely on his side either. After Crisis, there's probably going to be a bit less of the dark, grim'n'gritty stuff going on in the DCU, but I don't think they're going to take everything back to the Golden Age, either. This issue, we got to see E-2 Superman's point of view (a point of view which is, I suspect, partly a result of being manipulated by Alexander Luthor) - there's probably going to be a point later in the story where 'our' Superman gets to defend his Universe, too.

 

It's also worth noticing that the majority of events which were shown as evidence of how fucked-up the Universe has become date from within the past 2 years' worth of comics - i.e., within the time during which Infinite Crisis was being planned. They've been creating a deliberately untra-dark Universe, presumably to set up as a contrast to this idealised version of the Golden Age, and to whatever is going to come after the Crisis (which will, presumably, turn out to be something a little different than the Golden Age purists are calling for, but not as dark as what we've got at the moment, either).

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Whats wrong with a dark DCU ? I for one was glad to see Wonder Woman kill Max . I hope to see more of that . I hope things get Darker after Crisis not lighter . I hope they don't kill the flash....

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Whats wrong with a dark DCU ?

 

For me, it's simply that it's been done to death, and doesn't really suit most of the characters. I wouldn't want a post-crisis DCU to be all sweetness and light, but a bit less of the mindless, lazy grim-n-gritty-by-numbers crap which has been coming out lately would be nice.

 

I'm thinking particularly of Batman, if only because he's the DC character with whom I'm most familiar - sure, he should be dark and brooding, but that doesn't mean every story should revolve around him acting like a paranoid dick, and nor does it mean that even his supporting characters should be treated as cyphers of misery.

 

I didn't have a problem with Wonder Woman killing Max, incidentally - that actually made sense for her character in context, and it's only by writing Superman and Batman as total fuckwits that they've been able to create the subsequent conflict between the three of them. Which is bad writing, but not because it's too dark - just because it's stupid.

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There'll definately be a Superman vs. Superman in there somewhere.

Here's hoping. If they can do that and get anywhere close to Moore's Miracleman/Kid Miracleman battle in London, I for one will be a very happy camper.

 

Further thoughts on IC #2, while I'm here:

- Animal Man is DOOMED.

- Is Luthor going to be using Black Adam as a stand-in for a member of the Marvel family, for whatever super-zappy mind-ray device he's planning? Or is Black Adam part of a plan to acquire one?

- Love the idea of the dead Freedom Fighters just being found strung up somewhere. Though I'm a little unclear as to exactly what remains of Human Bomb after the pasting he took from Bizarro.

- Confused by Pre-Crisis Lois and her astonishing inexplicable death-illness. Is she catching up on the aging she should have done, or what?

- Animal Man is SO FUCKING DOOMED.

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Animal Man is SO FUCKING DOOMED.

 

I will be Very Very Upset if/when this turns out to be true. But let's face facts...it doesn't look good, does it? His cute kid gave him a packed lunch. That's almost as bad as talking about what you've got planned for after your long-awaited retirement next week.

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Isn't Morrison somehow overseeing this? Or the post-nu-Crisis DC Universe? I know not as a writer, but I swear I remember seeing he'd be an "uber-editor/story guy" of sorts.

 

I ask because of the Animal Man thing. Buddy, nooooooooo!!!

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I'm not sure if he'll actually write anything in "52" or not. There's talk that he's taking over "Detective Comics" after the I.C.

 

Grant Morrison takes over creative directions for the DCU (along with Geoff Johns) after the Infinite Crisis is ended.

 

Maybe Morrison will be happy to see Buddy Baker put out of his misery. After his daughter turning into a clone, his wife becoming a lesbian, and him turning into a giant vulture who fucks any woman that moves.....yeah, Buddy deserves to be allowed to rest now.

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Morrison took some kind of undefined editorial role at DC a few months back now, I haven't seen anything to suggest that he's involved with the direction of Infinite Crisis though.

 

What genuinely fascinates me about IC#2 is that the protagonists/antagonists vary depending on the reader - as I'm a dour bugger, I'm all for the grim'n'gritty so Old Supes would stand as the baddy for me, others of course would like the DCU to lighten up a little and no doubt have Old Supes' back.

 

Dourness aside, there are three ace moments which have to happen and hopefully the execution of same will lead to the required amount of aceness -

 

1) Superman rallying the DCU around him with an act of incredible heroism. This should include him saving Wonder Woman land from ten gazillion OMACs.

 

2) Batman's extended family coming together and for the old man to see sense and appreciate their presence. Lots of rumours flying around about Bruce's future post IC, it wouldn't surprise me if he stepped down and handed the mantle onto Nightwing or Robin. Maybe taking on a role similar to Wayne in the Batman Beyond series.

 

3) Superboy getting his ass off the farm and stomping one of the Luthors, prefably while saving his Teen Titan buddies. He should not take a suit similar to Superman, stick with the black T matey.

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Morrison took some kind of undefined editorial role at DC a few months back now, I haven't seen anything to suggest that he's involved with the direction of Infinite Crisis though.

Hm, I'd rather picked up the impression that he was. Couldn't tell you from where, mind, so I could well have completely imagined it. I understood it that he was acting as a kind of lord-high-overseer of the general direction of the DCU. If so, it's a good thing, if not, then schmeh.

 

What genuinely fascinates me about IC#2 is that the protagonists/antagonists vary depending on the reader - as I'm a dour bugger, I'm all for the grim'n'gritty so Old Supes would stand as the baddy for me, others of course would like the DCU to lighten up a little and no doubt have Old Supes' back.

Interesting - I'd not really looked at it that way. Having done so now, you're so right. I must admit, I very much fall into the Ye Olde Superman as enemy camp. He almost seems a caricatured fascist tyrant kind of figure - perhaps it's going to boil down to a liberal/conservative new-school/old-school kind of battle?

At this juncture, might I also add that I love Old Supes' knitted-effect cuffs on his suit. Makes him look very much the chunky-jumpered elder statesman. He'd look good smoking a pipe.

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I understood it that he was acting as a kind of lord-high-overseer of the general direction of the DCU. If so, it's a good thing, if not, then schmeh.

 

No, you've got the wrong end of the stick. Morrison has indeed taken on an editorial position co-overseeing the rough shape of the post-Infinite Crisis DCU (with Geoff Johns, I believe, which should be an interesting combination), and he is definitely one of the 4 writers who'll be working on 52*, but he's got nothing at all to do with Crisis itself. His 'responsibilities' begin after the Crisis is over.

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No, you've got the wrong end of the stick. Morrison has indeed taken on an editorial position co-overseeing the rough shape of the post-Infinite Crisis DCU (with Geoff Johns, I believe, which should be an interesting combination), and he is definitely one of the 4 writers who'll be working on 52*, but he's got nothing at all to do with Crisis itself. His 'responsibilities' begin after the Crisis is over.

Ah, right enough. Still, I'd be vaguely surprised if he didn't have some form of input/influence over what's going on at the moment. Time will tell.

 

Edit: not least given the amount of pre-Crisis lead-in stuff that he's had a hand in, of course.

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Edit: not least given the amount of pre-Crisis lead-in stuff that he's had a hand in, of course.

 

You mean "none"? Seven Soldiers and the related JLA: Classified arc aside (which Dan DiDio of DC has sworn point-blank isn't going to play into Infinite Crisis in any significant way, although we'll apparently see some of the Soldiers in there at some point), it's been years since Morrison's written anything set in the DCU.

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Edit: not least given the amount of pre-Crisis lead-in stuff that he's had a hand in, of course.

 

You mean "none"? Seven Soldiers and the related JLA: Classified arc aside (which Dan DiDio of DC has sworn point-blank isn't going to play into Infinite Crisis in any significant way, although we'll apparently see some of the Soldiers in there at some point), it's been years since Morrison's written anything set in the DCU.

:huh:

Hm, the JLA:C one was what sprang to mind. On closer inspection, I thought he'd written some of the recent JLA stuff too.

But really now, stop talking as if my memory is a thing to be trusted :p

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Geoff Johns, Greg Rucka, Dave Gibbons, and Bill Willingham seem to be handling most of the plotting for the "Infinite Crisis" stuff.

I'm sure there's a few other writers with them, but Morrison is not one of them.

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So is Buddy going to pull a Barry?

If there's any justice at all, he'll get un-drawn as he's written out of continuity and packed off to Limbo on-page. However, there isn't, so I'm sure he'll just die in some pointless manner, and get dredged back up in ten years' time with a slicker costume and a new origin.

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I'm slowly catching up, as the Brother I trade just came out, and I ended up enjoying it far more than I thought it would. Actually, it worked MUCH better when Rucka was allowed to focus on Checkmate and all the pseudo-"government intrigue"/secret agent shenanigans than when OMAC finally wnet bonkers and started a big ol' war with everyone in a pair of tights. And Blue Beetle's death was handled much better than I had pictured it...though if Booster Gold isn't the NEW Blue Beetle, powered by the mystical scarab when this is all said and done. I'll eat YOUR hat.

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The Earth-2 folks are quite endearing, because in comparison to The DCU, they come off as twee Comic book characters (Not that the DCU is a pillar of realism or anything).

 

Invoved or not, it feels very Morrison.

 

I'ts going to be sad to see them fail in one fashion or another-with their unsustainable idealisms.

 

Are we all convinced that bad will out in young Lex?

 

Crap I'm starting to feel here, must be Chris' Supermen pic.

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