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sethos

Frank Miller's 300 - The Movie

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Hey man, for you it's stupid, for them it's History. Several voices from the Jewish community rose against a Gibson's The Passion for the same reason.

It's not like I share their kind of feelings (feeling hurt or proud for anything that belongs to centuries ago), but I understand why those things exist.

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There are so many things they have the only control of themselves, that they should be angry about first. The way their judicial system treats women, gays, christians for one.

 

After they have their own shit together, let them then concern themsleves with how Xerxes' historical enemies are allowed to represent him.

 

 

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There are so many things they have the only control of themselves, that they should be angry about first. The way their judicial system treats women, gays, christians for one.

 

After they have their own shit together, let them then concern themsleves with how Xerxes' historical enemies are allowed to represent him.

Frank Miller is Xerxes' historical enemy?

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Aha, I see what you did there.

 

 

If you asked any Iranian, "Who was the historical enemy of Leoniades" your answer without hesitation would be "Us". Even though you could show them that their culture is only linked with Xerxes, a little bit more strongly than ours is linked with Greece of the time.

 

 

 

So, not Frank Miller, but The West through the Greeks, cause Miller don't share a history with Xerxes, except in so far as The West does.

 

And Miller/The West ought to be an enemy philosophic of that past Greece and Sparta as well, of course, they were horrible, but Red, we ought not hold our breath till humanity starts doing "what they should", blue is not the colour to be seen in this year.

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I tend to cast my lot with the Iranians here. "300" is, if viewed either historically or politically, a vile piece of steaming shit. It manages to take one of the most jingoistic of Greek myths and make it even more jingoistic. Impressive. (I can fully understand those who still enjoy it as entertainment, though)

 

I'd also be slightly miffed if someone treated Norwegian history as awfully.

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I think because neither the Persian / Iranian history nor the Greek / Spartan history is specifically my history, I find it very easy to view the film (and the book) from a totally fictional perspective rather than historical or political. As such, I enjoy 300 immensely.

 

Although if you get me started on U-571 it'd be a different story entirely.

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Although if you get me started on U-571 it'd be a different story entirely.

Exactly! I was SO ANNOYED when that film came.

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The movie was of course a dramatic retelling, but it seemed to me to cleave substantially to historical events in the main.

 

Anyway, how is it a jingoistic myth?. Xerxes was trying to piecemeal crush the Greeks, he did kill kings and princes he had taken captive, and send their heads to people, he did assemble an army and the Spartan king did go and die to try to delay him.

 

It isn't myth, but in fact pretty well-established historical fact.

 

Were the Spartans nice guys?. Nope. Does that colour every thing they ever did?.

 

It isn't their fault that subsequently "The West" chooses to view their story as a kind of baseline for its own existance, The West being a byword for "Always in the Wrong" can hardly be hung at Spartas door.

 

Would it be better if Xerxes had of won?. Everything ponies and flowers and brotherhood of man?.

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I don't know too much about the recorded historical events, or the complaints about the movie.

But I'm guessing the criticism stems from the Spartans being portrayed as the ideal of white manhood, perfect physical specimens, while the Persians are depicted as monstrous and in many cases barely human. Which I'm pretty sure wasn't the case.

 

That said, I still stand by my earlier comment.

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Oh. OK, well I suppose that is a valid complaint actually. If I remember my Herodotus* correctly, Persians at the time were more admired for their manly attributes than otherwise.

 

 

*For all that he was called "The Father of Lies" he was a pretty accurate source of information about opinions that his generation had about the world.

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I don't know too much about the recorded historical events, or the complaints about the movie.

But I'm guessing the criticism stems from the Spartans being portrayed as the ideal of white manhood, perfect physical specimens, while the Persians are depicted as monstrous and in many cases barely human. Which I'm pretty sure wasn't the case.

This.

 

In addition: Of course the basic story isn't a lie. The Persian empire did want to invade and subjugate the greek city states. Naturally, had they won, everything wouldn't have been "ponies and flowers and brotherhood of man". But also it wouldn't have been a horrible dystopia.

Herodotus isn't specifically, horribly bad, but he did do the typical jingoist thing that most myth-writers do, he exaggarated his own side's virtues, and denigrated the opposition. For instance, the relative sizes of the armeis have been exaggarated both ways. But Miller took Herodotus, added 2000 years of orientalist bullshit and then turned the dial up to 11 (as is his wont). The result is a mockery which makes Herodotus' story read like fair and balanced reporting.

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I think because neither the Persian / Iranian history nor the Greek / Spartan history is specifically my history, I find it very easy to view the film (and the book) from a totally fictional perspective rather than historical or political. As such, I enjoy 300 immensely.

 

 

Very much this.

 

I don't tend to view any film for historical or political accuracy. There's books for that. Films always will take a certain amount of liberties.

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One of the ideals I give credit where credit is absolutely due. USA, freedom of expression taken as far as stretchy interpretation of clauses can possibly be stretched. It makes for a noisy, offensive world, but I wouldn't want the alternative.

 

And if you guys had never have existed, "The Kings Office of Censorship" would have only been ultimately overthrown in word, not fact. There would now be a different sort of blanket ban, and it would be things that offended the cause de jour, the private hates of certain groups not too far from the exits of Universities, that would be banned for society.

 

And as we have seen, that would lead to rank injustice, where the elites try to tell us plebs "Back to your workbench, it is pedophilia when you do it, art when we do it".

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Umm, while freedom of speech in the US is good and all, I don't think they have a monopoly or anything on the concept. I also don't really see the link to the discussion about "300"?

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Be careful, the American Empire will conquer the world before it crumbles into dust. You'll all be Americans right before we destroy the world. Happy 4th of July!

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