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Lost_Johnny

War Lord

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FINALLY!

After bugging Stan Lee for 35 years (plus years of litigation in court over his claims that I am harassing him) over the fact the Hulk was coloured blue in one panel of Hulk #156, and never receiving one reply, Adrian Brown has given me a coveted No-Prize!

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I just picked up the first book and I can't wait to start reading it.

 

 

How many books has the publisher ordered so far? Is it just the two and are you the only author that will be writing in the series?

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Someone asked about the first of the fallen and Lucifer--sometimes it has seemed to me that this meant Lucifer, other times I wasn't sure. If it's not Lucifer who is it?

 

Basically the First was cast down into hell long before Lucifer (classic flavour Satan) suffered the same fate.

 

Little more detail here.

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He did...but it's all up the the writer to interpt it as he does. So part of John could still love Kit..or love the memories. And Mr. Shirley as you said they're Immortals and always around in some form or another. So heck...Demon JC could pop in. Ya never know.

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Someone asked about the first of the fallen and Lucifer--sometimes it has seemed to me that this meant Lucifer, other times I wasn't sure. If it's not Lucifer who is it?

 

Basically the First was cast down into hell long before Lucifer (classic flavour Satan) suffered the same fate.

 

Little more detail here.

 

But you're probably better off ignoring it, because it was a shite execution of an even worse idea which should never have happened in the first place. Fucking continuity whores.

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Guest Guest

in answer to various questions and comments...

 

Only two books are currently scheduled, War Lord and Subterranean. They're going to see how they sell (I do suppose) and if they sell well they'll commission more.

 

This business of the first of the fallen-- is it something made up by the writer or is it based on some existing mythology from Judeo Christian tradition? As far as I remember, Lucifer was the first to fall and he brought his homies with him. But I could be wrong.

 

Carthaga does not exist! It's a convention (as for just one example in "The Dogs of War") to make up a small nation to set stories in, if you need them. It's named after Carthage... I don't think I have anything inaccurate about Iraq or nothing significant...

 

I think I'm going to add a prologue to Subterranean explaining what's up with Kit and John lately and how that, in my mind, came about...

 

www.johnshirley.net

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It was totally made up by Garth Ennis, because after he'd already planned to use the Devil as an antagonist (he initially appeared in Dangerous Habits, in which it's just implied that he's the Devil - neither Lucifer nor The First are mentioned) Neil Gaiman wrote a Sandman story in which Lucifer abandoned Hell. Rather than ignoring this and just writing his own story, Ennis (presumably in response to editorial pressure) came up with the laughably shit First Of The Fallen cop-out, as explained in the link JMac posted above.

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Then again, I am very glad that it's a different devil than that one in Lucifer, and you know that as much as we're all happy to avoid continuity with other DC books there are enough vocal folks (oops, nearly wrote "fools" !) who want all their comics weaved into one self-integrated story.

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True, but you'd think those people would be too busy complaining that Constantine's no longer hanging around with Batman and Superman on the moon (although he did have a card-carrying member of the Justice League Of America attend his 40th birthday party, which only leads to further questions) to notice a bit of deliberate vagueness about Matters Theological.

 

I'd have been perfectly happy if they'd stuck with the original explanation given in the letters page when someone asked a question about this after Dangerous Habits part 2 came out - In light of the recent events in SANDMAN, we've chosen to leave the exact identity of the "Devil" who's been plaguing Constantine somewhat vague. He's certainly more of a devil in the classic mode than SANDMAN's Lucifer; perhaps he's Lucifer in another guise, or perhaps he's a lowly demon pretending to a higher status - the denizens of Hell aren't known for their truthfulness. None of the subsequent stories featuring the character would have been seriously damaged by sticking to that kind of deliberate ambiguity, and several would have been significantly improved.

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This is cracking me up. I would imagine that there will be those who will read WARLORD who've never read the comic or seen the movie. Having to explain every single character and how they tie into the continuity of 200+ issue of a comic would be a needless waste of space. Seriously try to read the book as its own animal. Your past knowlege of Constantine should just make it a richer experience.

 

BTW I would hope that nobody who reads the book will think that Carthaga is a real place.

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Personally, I shrug because it's a minor annoyance but it doesn't break the story, so I don't really mind here. Although, regarding the Kit thing, a bit along the lines of "Oh no, I think love her all over again!" would be amusing and enough. I like the lingering memories and that. Looks like you can't kill a deep thing that easily. :D

 

I picked up the book today. Liking what I've read so far. I don't regret skipping out on my after-classes nap.

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"I would hope that nobody who reads the book will think that Carthaga is a real place."

 

Sadly, George W. Bush read the book today and has just set aside $2 billion in defense money in order to "liberate" the people of Catharga....

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Thank you John for the posted segments

 

I'm sorry but i dont feel that Kit should be brought back at all.

It only weakens prexisting stories(IMHO).

Likewise, Ritchie choosing to stay away from John, was one of the biggest decisions of his life. Bringing him back would undermine this.

 

Unfortunately, John's devil has been set in stone (another Gath Ennis fault), and that is the FOTF.

Changing that now however, would only serve to do the above.

 

Mark has mentioned the multiple returns of certain characters, and the only way to break this and to preserve them as long time characters, is to mantain those absences.

The best thing you could do for Chas now, is not to feature him at all.

 

These may all be niggly continuity points (like the Demon bloods return, Straffe's Mom's double death), but amassed they destroy the sanctity of Johns continuity.

 

One which is short enough and long enough to mantain with...i dont know...a bit of effort.

This should be part of the Editor's role.

 

Outside of Hellblazer universe, is another topic and another thread, but surely within John's own universe is undebateble.

 

I suprised that you weren't given details of the tail end of Carey's run and the beginning of Mina's for that matter.

again, this should fall down to the Editor.

Perhaps an X-summit for Hellblazer.

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Mark has mentioned the multiple returns of certain characters, and the only way to break this and to preserve them as long time characters, is to mantain those absences.

The best thing you could do for Chas now, is not to feature him at all.

 

I'm absolutely certain that Mike wrote that falling-out between John and Chas in the full and certain knowledge that it would be 'fixed' within a matter of months (even if Mina doesn't use Chas in her run, I'd be confident that the writer after her will), and I see no reason why John Shirley shouldn't use him in a novel which is, presumably, only part of Hellblazer continuity in the loosest possible sense anyway. Ditto any other characters, actually - and while I personally don't see a return appearance by Kit as a particularly great idea, it'll do absolutely nothing to weaken pre-existing stories. They're right there, on your shelf, totally unchanged. At worst, if it turns out to be a bad idea, it'll undermine Shirley's own story, but that's his choice and he's perfectly capable of deciding whether or not to do it himself. That's my two penn'orth, anyway. Feel free to disagree.

 

Andy - aye, I agree that in-depth 'continuity' shouldn't be a major priority for the novels (although if they avoid outright contradictions of major events in the character's past, that'd be good). Can't speak for anyone else, but none of my comments earlier in this thread were intended to suggest otherwise - I was just answering a question, and offering a bit of commentary on top of that. Because I'm an opinionated little so-and-so. :)

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Mark Speaks The Truth again. The books might not jibe perfectly with the current continuity - I haven't recieved my copy yet, so it's hard to go into detail - but there's nothing to stop you from just pretending that it's an elseworlds or something.

 

If these things were happening in the comics without adequate explanation then I'd be with you in the ranting. As it is, I'm sure I will enjoy these novels as spin-off fodder and not worry too much about them contradicting issue whatever.

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Guest Dr Bruce Banner

Mr dear Testosterowan......

 

I must by oath and decree agree with your theory of protecting the sanctitiy of Helblazer continuity...

 

If however, this is discarded i cant wait for he first installment of the Amazing Constantine...much like the Incredible(or spectacular?) Spidey praying for a crisis to rear its predictable head.

 

...altho John being bitten by a radioactive cigarette could prove to be a neverending arc of thrils and spills.

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there's nothing to stop you from just pretending that it's an elseworlds or something.

 

 

Sure, okay but wait till there is a large canon of of Non-Continuity work.

Shirleys shown an amazing ability to produce work.

And AHE OGN was great, but it wouldn't have taken much to slip that in somewhere.

 

If there was a major problem, that existing continuity was somehow hindering a good story then fine. Go ahead and change it (ie still dont know what the story behind the demon blood really was).

 

But so far all i'm seeing is well negligence on the editorial part.

Nothing that couldn't be resolved again with effort.

 

And i (my tuppence worth) belive that preexisting stories do change bu what comes after them.

Like a paradigm shift, this is a long running series afterall.

 

Take the Dirty Harry franchise.

The purity of Dirty Harry(as insular as one film can be) is ruined by the sequels.

Im thinking long term here.

 

Look simply, with a little attention all of this could be continuity.

All of the work could compliment each other. Build upon each other.

Remember, Constantine is a great fictional, but organic character.

Not just another comic book character-look at the Parker mess.

There was a point to aging him every year.

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Mr dear Testosterowan......

 

I must by oath and decree agree with your theory of protecting the sanctitiy of Helblazer continuity...

 

If however, this is discarded i cant wait for he first installment of the Amazing Constantine...much like the Incredible(or spectacular?) Spidey praying for a crisis to rear its predictable head.

 

...altho John being bitten by a radioactive cigarette could prove to be a neverending arc of thrils and spills.

 

Da Fug?

 

Theres a point there though.

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I usually don't get too uptight about continuity--I'm fine with ignoring it just as long it's not totally contradicted. In the book there's a pretty big plot point that could be construed as violating past continuity or it could be looked on as adding new history to the character, depending on your attitude to such things.

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Rohne, I don't agree with you about certain story elements being set in stone, and I don't think there's anything inherently wrong in bringing back of characters. As for those changes affecting the stories that have gone before,

 

And i (my tuppence worth) belive that preexisting stories do change bu what comes after them.

Like a paradigm shift, this is a long running series afterall.

 

I tend to agree, but

that's more a case of the Whole Big Story being changed.

I'd also prefer for Kit not to return, but she could cross John's path again (just like sometimes happens in real life) with integrity.

And you can still enjoy what has gone before, as Mark says.

 

I am not sure I want the books (or the film for that matter) tied to the continuity, merely to the spirit and the character of the comic series.

 

The Lucifer thing is surely not a problem.

Mark's right that the original DC explanation is the one that makes more sense and the latter only comes from [over-used word]inuity freaks.

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Guest John Shirley

Kit doesn't return in the novel to the extent she's back with John--it's just an encounter that sort of sets up his emotional state.

 

Chas is in Subterranean but he's quite angry with John and they're barely talking though they're entangled...He tells John off again but bails him out of jail...but magic is involved in this, not John's magic...

 

Rich--yeah, he didn't want to see John but you know I've had a number of friends whom I've sworn off or who swore me off--I'm an ex punk singer and recovering addict and have had a tumultuous life, am on my fifth marriage, so it has been quite rocky for my friends till about 1995--and yet we all (most of us) eventually get back together...anyway Rich just has a drink with John at the end of War Lord. I just liked the character. He's like some of my old friends.

 

www.johnshirley.net

 

and by the way if anyone cares here's a press release

 

JOHN SHIRLEY NEWS

 

The Weinstein Company, the new outfit built around the original producers of The Lord of the Rings, has optioned John Shirley's Del Rey books novel DEMONS for a “decent five figure sum". Jim Sonzero has committed to direct. Shirley's novel IN DARKNESS WAITING is in development at Gold Circle productions ("My Big Fat Greek Wedding" and "White Noise"), and the script by Matt Venne ("White Noise 2") is expected to be turned in to Gold Circle next week.

 

A third production company, part of a major studio, has inquired about the rights for Shirley's novel CRAWLERS but details are under wraps as of now.

 

On the low-budget front, Jeff Most, producer of THE CROW (John Shirley co-wrote the script of THE CROW), has optioned two John Shirley original scripts to be made in Russia. The screenplays are “Edgar Allan Poe's LIGEIA“ (set in our own time), and “HER HUNGER“ based on Shirley's novella. Most is in the process of optioning Shirley's script Shadow Kids for a more ambitious budget...

 

John Shirley's new “alternative apocalypse“ novel THE OTHER END is complete and will be out in its first edition from Cemetary Dance in 2006. His novel John Constantine, Hellblazer: War Lord will be out from Pocket Books in February 2006

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Guest John Shirley (forgot to say)

Just a moment going off topic - if there are any Batman fans here, I also wrote a Batman novel, Batman: Dead White due out from Pocketbooks...I dunno when...I'm waiting for the page proofs now...Batman gets laid in it, has a somewhat supernatural experience (or sort of Jungian), fights white supremacists, kicks a lot of ass, flies the batplane as a prototype--the story is set a year and a half into Batman's becoming Batman in the Batman Begins universe...

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I have to ask if the Bat-plane you use is similar to the "Bat-shield" looking thing that Burton used in the first movie, or if it's something a little more realistic....

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