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JohnMcMahon

Lack of content on the Constantine site

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Batman Begins site already has some pics and bits... not much, but it's beter than nothing.

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Well, I guess they don't want to earn money then...

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I was looking at the Elektra Site there (with my pants on, I should add!) and I note that while the movie doesn't open till the middle of January, they've populated the site with video clips, wallpaper, an e-mail list and a synopsis of the flick.

 

All very basic stuff that wouldn't have taken more than an hour or two to throw together. Least they could do is slip Tim Seelig a fiver and get him to do some wallpaper up for im.

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Elektra...yummy! This might actually be a cool flick!

ANd yes, this kind of site would have taken some web-savvy guy a day or two to patch together. They should make the effort, if they want people to actually see the movie.

 

One thing I've noticed, which is probably pure coincidence is that the "logo" of the movie, the green "C", also looks a lot like the Islamic green half-moon! :D

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Dear Warners,

 

How about putting 10 minutes work into the official Constantine site ?

I assume you're familair with the phrase "throwing good money after bad"?

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So you're saying Warner's has already written off the film? Is this a taste of thing to come...the movie gets moved to the doldrums of February and then there will be the minimal of advertising dollars focusing on the opening weekend and then the film is shutted off to home video market and obsucrity, only to be a footnote in Keanu Reeve's career.

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Guest spiderlegs

I'm predicting that were it not for Canoe, it would have been straight to DVD. It's the best thing for it, really. That means in another decade or so, someone else could come along and make it the way it was meant to be made, with a proper director, proper writer, proper casting agent, and proper John fucking Constantine and a proper Chas!

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I'm predicting that were it not for Canoe, it would have been straight to DVD. It's the best thing for it, really. That means in another decade or so, someone else could come along and make it the way it was meant to be made, with a proper director, proper writer, proper casting agent, and proper John fucking Constantine and a proper Chas!

 

Why, do you mean that it won't be possible to do a 'proper adaptation' because the film rights are owned by the producers and they are free of keeping it indefinitely? :mad:

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I'm predicting that were it not for Canoe, it would have been straight to DVD. It's the best thing for it, really. That means in another decade or so, someone else could come along and make it the way it was meant to be made, with a proper director, proper writer, proper casting agent, and proper John fucking Constantine and a proper Chas!

 

How about a "proper" fan, one that is not so blindly possessive that his opinions are based on something other than wishful pessimistic thinking. Or maybe you could stop crying and get off your duff and create your own graphic novel and struggle passionately for years to get a fan base large enough to support your cable bill, then say bye to your girl when she refuses to live with yer mom, then turn down the elusive lucrative WB offer and brag to all your pub buddies how you refused to "sell out" while asking them to pick up your bar tab and maybe give you ride home to your cardboard box under the overpass.

 

I am testy today....

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Is a proper fan in your world someone who swears blind allegiance to everything to do with the thing they are a fan of ?

 

Ooh, a t-shirt !

Ooh, a low quality trade paperback !

Ooh, a toy !

Oooh, a film !

Ooooh, a film that disregards much of what I like about the character !

 

"Fanatic" maybe.

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Guest spiderlegs

Yeah, see, the film won't dictate whether or not I like the comic. The comic WILL dictate whether or not I like the film. The comic came first and has consistently been very entertaining with the characters the way they are. The film came second and changed up the characters, the setting, the background and who knows how much more? Why even call it the same name? Oh, wait, they didn't. They changed HELLBLAZER to CONSTANTINE, but they really should have changed ALL the characters' names since they, themselves, have been so drastically altered.

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Is a proper fan in your world someone who swears blind allegiance to everything to do with the thing they are a fan of ?

 

Ooh, a t-shirt !

Ooh, a low quality trade paperback !

Ooh, a toy !

Oooh, a film !

Ooooh, a film that disregards much of what I like about the character !

 

"Fanatic" maybe.

 

Is a proper writer or director one who swears blind allegiance to everything to do with the thing they are adapting?

 

Didn't die hard Toiken fans cringe at the enormous liberties taken by Jackson and his troops who are now reverred as genius Gods? Wasn't the last Harry Potter considered the best specifically because the writer and director didn;t follow the book religiously but tried to find better ways to evoke the true dark spirit of the book? Wasn't Michael Keaton the best Batman? Wasn't it Neil Gamen himself who threw out the entire past HISTORY of the Swamp Thing to create an entirely new take on the material which enhanced the overall mythology? Was he worried about the countless die hard fans and their allegiance to Alex's desire to regain his humanity? No - he broke rank and helped EVOLVE the series. Wasn't it the very same Constantine producer - Lauren Donner - who tossed the beloved spandex and many other fan favs to create much more believable and relatable characters in Xmen? Wasn't is Sam fucking God Rami who turned the spider into a gentic lab mutation and gave Spidey real fucking web shooters instead of the Rube Goldberg contraptions in all previous incarnations of the famed superhero?

 

Is it my understanding that no comic writer has ever changed a charcter to explore their own feelings on the material? Right. The real question should be have any NOT changed the world they jump into.

 

And isn't that what good writers do - expand on the original ideas within the limitations of the media while exploring some of their own wishes, fears and beliefs Isn;t the definition of a HACK one who follows the orders of his peers to the T, never having the balls to give them something new - something unique - something surprising even to them? Isn;t that when the best work is done?

 

I guess my definition of a proper fan is one who understands the nature of creativity and how it is forced to change from one media to another. They are intelligent enough to know that all public creative works are locked in a business world and when something even remotely unique manages to crawl to the surface, they are smart enough to embrace the effort.

 

To wish for the passionate efforts of any human to crash and burn is counterproductive to the entire creative world. If you're ever lucky to make your living in that world, you'll understand or as Spacey so elequently said at the end of American Beauty - "I realize none of you have any idea what I'm talking about, but don't worry, you will."

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"Guest", you do realise that Hellblazer is a corporate owned property and not something that was built from the ground up by some chap in his garage, right ?

 

Oh and Spiderlegs, I disagree with your straight-to-video comment, even without Keanu I reckon Constantine would make a fair ol wodge of cash.

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Wasn't it Neil Gamen himself who threw out the entire past HISTORY of the Swamp Thing to create an entirely new take on the material which enhanced the overall mythology?

 

Nope. It was Alan Moore.

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Is a proper writer or director one who swears blind allegiance to everything to do with the thing they are adapting? 

Didn't die hard Toiken fans cringe at the enormous liberties taken by Jackson and his troops who are now reverred as genius Gods?  Wasn't the last Harry Potter considered the best specifically because the writer and director didn;t follow the book religiously but tried to find better ways to evoke the true dark spirit of the book?

 

i dont think i'd like Hellblazer to be stuffed in the same category with LOTR and Harry Bleedin' Potter (and the third movie sucked, basically)

 

Wasn't Michael Keaton the best Batman?

 

he is the lesser of all other evils. in the land of the blind, etc.

 

Wasn't it Neil Gamen himself who threw out the entire past HISTORY of the Swamp Thing to create an entirely new take on the material which enhanced the overall mythology?

 

nope, as already adressed, it weas neither Neil Gamen, nor Neil Gaiman, but Alan Moore

 

Was he worried about the countless die hard fans and their allegiance to Alex's desire to regain his humanity?

 

countless diehard fans? i think he was brought to the title because it was selling fuck-all, and they wanted to give it one last shot, before cancelling it. and by then, pretty much noone cared for Swamp Thing, which is something that can't be said about John Constantine.

 

No - he broke rank and helped EVOLVE the series.  Wasn't it the very same Constantine producer - Lauren Donner - who tossed the beloved spandex and many other fan favs to create much more believable and relatable characters in Xmen?  Wasn't is Sam fucking God Rami who turned the spider into a gentic lab mutation and gave Spidey real fucking web shooters instead of the Rube Goldberg contraptions in all previous incarnations of the famed superhero?

 

you're using Superhero adaprtations (who apparently HAVE to change things like organic webshooters/no spandex to make things more feasable/believable for the viewers) as an argument for adaptation of Hellblazer, which DOESN'T need all the changes, and especially not the changes that will ignore the core traits of the character (which happened neither in Spiderman or X-men). The p[roducers and directors are trying to make John into a superhero-like, action star wannabe with a teen sidekick.

 

Is it my understanding that no comic writer has ever changed a charcter to explore their own feelings on the material?  Right.  The real question should be have any NOT changed the world they jump into.

 

oh, sorry, i thought we were talking about producers changing the character of J.C. because they wanted to attract teen demographics and Buffy fans, not about the "artistic integrity and merits" of the screenwriters that gave them the right to take liberties to explore their own thoughts on humanity or some other bollocks. I guess putting a holy sahotgun in a movie is one way of "changing a character to explore your own thoughts on the material".

 

And isn't that what good writers do - expand on the original ideas within the limitations of the media while exploring some of their own wishes, fears and beliefs  Isn;t the definition of a HACK one who follows the orders of his peers to the T, never  having the balls to give them something new - something unique - something surprising even to them?  Isn;t that when the best work is done?

 

you're assuming that Constantine will be something new/unique.

 

I guess my definition of a  proper fan is one who understands the nature of creativity and how it is forced to change from one media to another.

 

there's change, and there's bastardization.

 

They are intelligent enough to know that all public creative works are locked in a business world and when something even remotely unique manages to crawl to the surface, they are smart enough to embrace the effort.

 

ah, the old "i thought you werte more intelligent than this" argument...

 

To wish for the passionate efforts of any human to crash and burn is counterproductive to the entire creative world.

 

oh, shit! now our internet bashings have brought the entire World in jeopardy! Oh, nooooo! We were such poor deluded fools, forgive us, Father, we didn't know what we were doing... also - i sincerely doubt there have been many passionate efforts in the prouction of Constantine, which itself manages to ignore passionate efforts of many creators who worked on the title, and their readers.

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I don't believe Warners has given up on "Constantine"! I think they see it as a success with a very profitable name (Keanu), and they're pretty much right on that as far as money, it'll do fine.

 

As for Mr. I Worked My Ass Off Because I Thought This Was Fun, But Fun Doesn't Pay The Bills:

Alan Moore doesn't own "Swamp Thing", DC does. Same people who own "Hellblazer", same people who own Neil Gaiman (oh wait, he's a real person, isn't he? Or, is he?! :lol: ). Editors want to revamp a dying title and give the right amount of money to the right talented people, and voila, magic!

And, with the history of "Swamp Thing", the character was created by Len Wein. Alan Moore's take on the character was doing HOMAGE to Len Wein's vision, not totally overhauling it and removing everything that Wein put into his creation. It was hack writers after Len Wein who had destroyed "Swamp Thing" to the point that he was a joke.

 

"To wish for the passionate efforts of any human to crash and burn is counterproductive to the entire creative world."

Karl Marx and the producer of "Constantine". Two people with a dream who wanted to change the world for the better! :lol:

 

Oh, and by the way, I work as a struggling short fiction writer.

A good number of my friends are poets, who work other jobs because poetry doesn't pay the bills.

Yes, noble and godlike.....the world of the writer. :lol:

 

Guest-Do you even have a point?! It seems that you're rambling with rhetoric.

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Is a proper writer or director one who swears blind allegiance to everything to do with the thing they are adapting?

 

No, but a proper adapter should at least get the protagonist right, or what's the point?

 

Didn't die hard Toiken fans cringe at the enormous liberties taken by Jackson and his troops who are now reverred as genius Gods?

 

Yes, but Jackson still got most of the characters, most of the story, all of the "threat of industry" subtext and all of the relevant mythology correct. Hellblazer manages none of these. It probably helps that Jackson is an enormous Tolkein fan (in every sense of the word) whilst nobody involved with Constantine appears to give a shit about the source material.

 

Wasn't the last Harry Potter considered the best specifically because the writer and director didn;t follow the book religiously but tried to find better ways to evoke the true dark spirit of the book?

 

Haven't we already pointed out that Constantine has failed to "evoke the true dark spirit" of Hellblazer, no matter what the director says?

 

Wasn't Michael Keaton the best Batman?

 

Yes. And?

 

Wasn't it Neil Gamen himself who threw out the entire past HISTORY of the Swamp Thing to create an entirely new take on the material which enhanced the overall mythology?  Was he worried about the countless die hard fans and their allegiance to Alex's desire to regain his humanity?  No - he broke rank and helped EVOLVE the series.

 

(pretending we're talking about Alan Moore and not "Neil Gamen") Alan also maintained strong links to continuity with Arcane's return, revisiting the drowned vampire city etc. The Constantine film does not "evolve the series," it steals away the characters' names and one or two scenes from the comic and throws out the rest in favour of a new, far less interesting world.

 

And it certainly doesn't "enhance the overall mythology" of the comic - it completely discards it in favour of some shit about half-breed demons on Earth and true demons trapped in Hell which makes no logical sense whatsoever.

 

Wasn't it the very same Constantine producer - Lauren Donner - who tossed the beloved spandex and many other fan favs to create much more believable and relatable characters in Xmen?

 

I dunno, I thought it was the costume designer. And it was hardcore X-Men fans Bryan Singer and David Hayter who did the hard work of choosing the characters etc. Shame the people behind this production aren't fans of the comic. Still, eh?

 

Wasn't is Sam fucking God Rami who turned the spider into a gentic lab mutation and gave Spidey real fucking web shooters instead of the Rube Goldberg contraptions in all previous incarnations of the famed superhero?

 

Yes, but he kept the themes of the Spider-man comic and used characters that could be recognised as being the same ones from the comic. Because, once more, he was a fan of the original comic. Christ, you just keep shooting yourself in the foot, don't you?

 

Is it my understanding that no comic writer has ever changed a charcter to explore their own feelings on the material?  Right.  The real question should be have any NOT changed the world they jump into.

 

Oh, absolutely. The mopey, depressed Constantine of Delano's run is not the same as the angry, venomous bastard of Ennis' storyline. But they always kept the character's basic humanity and hatred of authority the same, and didn't have him praying to God.

 

And isn't that what good writers do - expand on the original ideas within the limitations of the media while exploring some of their own wishes, fears and beliefs  Isn;t the definition of a HACK one who follows the orders of his peers to the T, never  having the balls to give them something new - something unique - something surprising even to them?  Isn;t that when the best work is done?

 

Yeah, so what went wrong here?

 

Oh, that's right - the hacks who wrote and re-wrote the script didn't expand on the original ideas and followed the wishes of the producers by setting it in America, adding Holy Shotguns etc. etc.

 

I guess my definition of a proper fan is one who understands the nature of creativity and how it is forced to change from one media to another. They are intelligent enough to know that all public creative works are locked in a business world and when something even remotely unique manages to crawl to the surface, they are smart enough to embrace the effort.

 

To wish for the passionate efforts of any human to crash and burn is counterproductive to the entire creative world.  If you're ever lucky to make your living in that world, you'll understand or as Spacey so elequently said at the end of American Beauty -  "I realize none of you have any idea what I'm talking about, but don't worry, you will."

 

Mmm, I love how you talk about unique visions and creativity then just rip a line off someone else's script.

 

Who says the Americans don't understand irony?

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I don't know James, (quote:) "Because, once more, he was a fan of the original comic. Christ, you just keep shooting yourself in the foot, don't you?"; I think the fact that he continually refers to people in Hollywood as "gods" might have something to do with it all.....

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Is a proper writer or director one who swears blind allegiance to everything to do with the thing they are adapting? 

Well, let me repeat here that there are plenty of occasions here on this forum and its predecessor where one or other of us has commented favourably about aspects of this adaptation, and yet you "guests" only focus on the negative.

Reacting just as defensively as you accuse us of being.

 

Didn't die hard Toiken fans cringe at the enormous liberties taken by Jackson and his troops who are now reverred as genius Gods?  Wasn't the last Harry Potter considered the best specifically because the writer and director didn;t follow the book religiously but tried to find better ways to evoke the true dark spirit of the book?  Wasn't Michael Keaton the best Batman?

No. He was in the best Batman film, but the best Batman remains the one in many of the comics. He was also not the best Hollywood Bruce Wayne in my opinion.

 

Which has interesting parallels with my views on Constanteen.

(You'll forgive me if I ask you to read the forum rather than me repeating them every time - in summary: adding humour to Batman's character was a lesser version of giving Constantine a Christian motivation.)

 

Wasn't it Neil Gamen himself who threw out the entire past HISTORY of the Swamp Thing to create an entirely new take on the material which enhanced the overall mythology?  Was he worried about the countless die hard fans and their allegiance to Alex's desire to regain his humanity?  No - he broke rank and helped EVOLVE the series.

Most people have corrected you on the writer, but the rest of what you say hear is also questionable. Not surprising since you don't profess to be interested in the comics. Basically, Moore embraced most of the history of Swamp Thing, evolved it into his stories in a sensible fashion and the only major change he made was explaining away the *physical* link between Alex and Swamp Thing.

Oh and the reason he was allowed to do so was that there were *not* "countless die hard fans".

 

  Wasn't it the very same Constantine producer - Lauren Donner - who tossed the beloved spandex and many other fan favs to create much more believable and relatable characters in Xmen?  Wasn't is Sam fucking God Rami who turned the spider into a gentic lab mutation and gave Spidey real fucking web shooters instead of the Rube Goldberg contraptions in all previous incarnations of the famed superhero? 

You have me at a disadvantage here, I don't really follow those two comics, but the core of those titles AND their films seems intact here. I'd compare the changes you cite to Constanteen being american and The Holy Shotgun. The former of which does not bother me (nor most of the people here), the latter of which is just too funny not to take the piss out of.

 

Is it my understanding that no comic writer has ever changed a charcter to explore their own feelings on the material?  Right.  The real question should be have any NOT changed the world they jump into.

 

And isn't that what good writers do - expand on the original ideas within the limitations of the media while exploring some of their own wishes, fears and beliefs  Isn;t the definition of a HACK one who follows the orders of his peers to the T, never  having the balls to give them something new - something unique - something surprising even to them?  Isn;t that when the best work is done?

 

I guess my definition of a  proper fan is one who understands the nature of creativity and how it is forced to change from one media to another.    They are intelligent enough to know that all public creative works are locked in a business world and when something even remotely unique manages to crawl to the surface, they are smart enough to embrace the effort.

That all seems quite reasonable.

 

To wish for the passionate efforts of any human to crash and burn is counterproductive to the entire creative world.

You missed the word "commercial" out of there somewhere, but I think it explains your defensiveness (which is after all the flipside of the negativity you see on this forum). As you are reputedly involved in the film, all unfavourable criticism is magnified. Meaning that you see "us" as some conglomerate of single-minded hatred for the film rather than the range of opinions. Clearly we are at the extreme end of Hellblazer readership, since we meet up via the internet daily to chat about the comic and the film among other more general things.

Yet instead of embracing the positivity we have for the character, this forum has been regularly visited by insiders of the movie who have shown no sign of accepting the criticisms. Of course, we are not the intended audience, the general public who have no idea that Keanu's new film is based on a comic. If the film stands on its own merits then it will be easy to dismiss a few "blind" critics.

 

  If you're ever lucky to make your living in that world, you'll understand or as Spacey so elequently said at the end of American Beauty -  "I realize none of you have any idea what I'm talking about, but don't worry, you will."

That sums up nicely how you've made this an argument of black and white absolutes (we all hate the film, but you know better than us) so let me paraphrase another quote back at you.

 

You recognise the mote of criticism in your critics' eye, but you do not see the beam of bias in your own.

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It's going to be so much fun watching this site get overrun by new fans turned on by this character once the film comes out. So many sleepless nights by those here trying to convince the newbies how stupid they all are for loving this terribly inacurate movie. I can guarentee you it will happen.

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