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Frankie1981

John is Screwed

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Well, all I can say is that all the historical evidence so far in places where it actually has been implemented (Norway among them) is 100% positive. It works:

- More people quit smoking

- There are health benefits for the workers

- The pubgoers don't complain much at all

 

I'm willing to bet cash that the exact same thing will happen in the UK.

So, anyone willing to take my bet then? 8-)

No takers? Come on you combative smoker fanatics! I dare ya! :lol:

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Well, all I can say is that all the historical evidence so far in places where it actually has been implemented (Norway among them) is 100% positive. It works:

- More people quit smoking

- There are health benefits for the workers

- The pubgoers don't complain much at all

 

I'm willing to bet cash that the exact same thing will happen in the UK.

So, anyone willing to take my bet then? 8-)

No takers? Come on you combative smoker fanatics! I dare ya! :lol:

 

No takers coz they've no money left to bet with due to the extortionate cost of fags... :wacko:

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Or we're not actually fanatics.

 

Again, what's wrong with a smoking section? In a tiny corner? Or allowing private businesses decide whether or not they want smoking on the property?

 

I toss it out again, "healthy people"...why aren't you so determined to ban drinking, since that'll "secondhandedly" kill far more people than cigarette smoke? Or since smoking should be banned since it's bad for people, where's the clamor to shut down the fast food restaurants? My issue here is with governments taking the authority, yet again, to tell us which "bad things" we can have and which we can't. Where's the logic? Or the consistency?

 

I'm honestly stunned at the people in this thread essentially clamoring for more governmental control over their personal lives.

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I think why they want smoking banned, but not drinking alc or eating junkfood is, that if someone smokes, hes not the only one who soaks the smoke in. Others do too, and maybe they dont want to and cant change that. But still, they breath in all the dust even unfiltered. Thats unhealthy and unwilled.

But i dont think that if someone buys a Big Mac or a Bottle of Whiskey he/she spits bits of food or drops of drink in your mouth while youre there :) And i also dont recall molecules of fluids or crumbs flying in the air to be freely inhalable by non-bigmacers or non-whiskyers.

Its not so easy to force someone to eat of your unhealthy food or drink, but inhaling smoke is fastly there. If they want to eat Junk or drink Alc, they do, if not, not, thers almost no chance to be a passive-alcer or passive-macer.

If they want to smoke they smoke, but if not, there is a big chance to be a passive-smoker.

So thats the problem i think.

But im still also for smoking and non-smoking areas everywhere.

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But the junk food industry uses acres of land to feed their cattle, which can displace people and wreck natural environments.

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Well, if we're talking about one's pleasures being damaging to others, then I beg to differ.

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Well, all I can say is that all the historical evidence so far in places where it actually has been implemented (Norway among them) is 100% positive. It works:

- More people quit smoking

- There are health benefits for the workers

- The pubgoers don't complain much at all

 

I'm willing to bet cash that the exact same thing will happen in the UK.

So, anyone willing to take my bet then? 8-)

No takers? Come on you combative smoker fanatics! I dare ya! :lol:

 

People aren't betting on the first point because you haven't set a timeframe on it. What if lots of people quit through this horrendously cold winter and then start up again in spring/summer?

 

People aren't betting on the second point because it's a fact.

 

People aren't betting on the third point because there's absolutely no way to measure that kind of information except anecdotally.

 

There, you don't have to keep quoting it now.

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Look I don't want to cause anyone else any pain or agony because I want my drug fix, but I'll cut a motherfucker for my nic man. No I'm kidding it's just that we gave you fuckers the airplanes, office buildings, airports, resteraunts, and every public or government building. So why do we have to give up the bars? I mean can't we have at least one fucking place where we can smoke without having to deal with the elements.

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I agree with some pubs allowing smokers.

 

Think of it as a working hypothesis, Red.

IF lots of people go to smoking pubs (you know what i mean),

then more and more pubs will allow smoking.

IF less people go, then more pubs wont have smoking.

 

hey - do you think this will make smoking, say -

the "drug" of choice. What with the luxury tax on it, and

having nowhere but home (or selected places if the smokers

have their way), making it an elite kind of thing.

Appeals to the secret geek in all of us.... (just kidding).

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Id rather not stink, be unhealthy, choke and just plain be uncomfortable just because you got yourself an addiction i dont like it any more than i would someone doing heroin in the same room as me... or the same bloody planet for that matter ,not the smoking but the heroin, you can still kill yourselves in the comfort of your own home if thats what you enjoy. I cant force people to stop and cant realy tell them to if its their decision to but if want to DONT RUIN MY LIFE TOO!

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People aren't betting on the first point because you haven't set a timeframe on it. What if lots of people quit through this horrendously cold winter and then start up again in spring/summer?

 

People aren't betting on the second point because it's a fact.

 

People aren't betting on the third point because there's absolutely no way to measure that kind of information except anecdotally.

 

There, you don't have to keep quoting it now.

:biggrin: I'm just needling, James. Puerile, perhaps, but I still contend my points are true.

 

Anyway, Mojo, the fact that smoking harms other people besides the smoker is important. In the "smoking lounges" you argue for, the pub workers woudl still have to go, defeating (some of) the benefits a ban will have for workers in the business. Btw I do not share your fear of "government stepping in", at least in this case. In many areas, a LOT more government action would be beneficial (or rather, DIFFERENT action in many cases) Pooka's example of the agricultural industry is very valid. I would want very strict political control of farming, to ensure environmental and animal interests, and wouldn't consider this any sort of attack on individual liberty.

Noone is stopping you from smoking (although if tobacco was to be INTRODUCED as a product today, it MOST CERTAINLY wouldn't have been allowed), we're asking for legal protection from smoke harming us non-smokers. Of course, being asthmatic makes me feel this issue a bit stronger too...

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Noone is stopping you from smoking (although if tobacco was to be INTRODUCED as a product today, it MOST CERTAINLY wouldn't have been allowed), we're asking for legal protection from smoke harming us non-smokers. Of course, being asthmatic makes me feel this issue a bit stronger too...

 

What's wrong with having some smoking establishments or smoking areas in certain licenced premises?

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Noone is stopping you from smoking (although if tobacco was to be INTRODUCED as a product today, it MOST CERTAINLY wouldn't have been allowed), we're asking for legal protection from smoke harming us non-smokers. Of course, being asthmatic makes me feel this issue a bit stronger too...

 

What's wrong with having some smoking establishments or smoking areas in certain licenced premises?

 

Exactly. Leave it up to the decision of private businesses! They can post big signs on the front saying "SMOKING INSIDE! BEWARE!" and then people who don't like smoking can CHOOSE to not work there or use the establishment as a customer. If allowing smoking hurts the business, you know it'll be banned in no time flat. If the business succeeds WITH smoking, well, why can't it?

 

And I'm going to keep pounding the alcohol comparison into the ground. More people are and will be conclusively killed or injured by OTHER people drinking than cigarettes. That's essentially a form of "secondhand" harm caused by someone drinking to people around him or her. Why not the clamor to stop up the flow of alcohol? The answer, quite simply, is almost everyone likes alcohol in some form, and don't want to see it go. Not everyone likes smoking, so they have no problem seeing governments trample all over the individual rights of its citizens.

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In Spain we have the same from 1 January.

Restaurants-banned

Bars of >100 m² - Non smoke zone must exist

Bars of <100 m² - Can be smoke OR non smoke

Public closed buildings etc - banned

 

Hey John breaks rules. Another one to break, right?

 

And my personal opinion about the stuff is, I like to burn papers and matches everywere and the smell of Napalm in the morning, but society does not respect my habits, also. Poor smokers, I understand them. The right of having and spreading cancer should be sacred!

 

Anyway, there should be places where you can have your dose and don't annoy the rest. For tobacco also.

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If you're a big multi-national corporation it's fine to give people cancer, but not if you're a (probably) working class pleb in a pub, right? :biggrin:

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