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JohnMcMahon

Hellblazer #200

What did you think of Hellblazer #200 ?  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. What did you think of Hellblazer #200 ?

    • 10 (Brill on toast)
      6
    • 9
      7
    • 8
      10
    • 7
      6
    • 6
      1
    • 5 (middle of the synchronicity highway)
      1
    • 4
      0
    • 3
      1
    • 2
      0
    • 1 (ugh!)
      1


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I found Peter Milligan's story-arc to be totally out of place in "Animal Man"! I thought it read like a "Shade" story with Buddy Baker thrown in.

 

And yes, that "Swamp Thing" series sucked before Moore came onboard. I don't even count that as part of the series.

Picky!

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i loved that Milligan arc on Animal Man! it wasa in the vein of Morison's craziness, but totally out there, like a logical next step after such a weird run.

 

 

I loved, and i say LOVED the original Swamp Thing series (a few issues of which are waiting for me at the residence of a Mr. Brown, some day when i manage to finally visit London...), but i have a few issues from before Moores run, and they're plain horible (one of which even has Swampy reverting back to Alec Holland for a breif while...

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I just got the issue this week thanks to Lou.

 

Overall I liked the issue, mainly for the narrative and intelligent choices for the little scenarios in John's three different lives.

 

John/Kit: The artwork was great. Always a good feeling to see one of the most dominant versions of John. Only one problem bugged me with the story and that's Kit's character didn't seem as unique. Chalk that up to going from Ennis to Carey and only using her for a brief portion of the story. Adam's probably my favorite out of the bunch. I hate sinister kids.

 

John/Zed: My favorite life out of the three. I started to tolerate the Frusin art from Stations at the Cross and I think it was illustrated well here. I liked the dark appeal in this most of all. Saul's gardening techniques - having the Swamp Thing sucked dry by magic and Abby's death was a great touch. How appropriate is it that John turns into the Clint Eastwood of magicians! Gemma taking over, and John considered out of his league was a good shoe to fit him in. 10/10 points for scenario deuce.

 

John/Angie: Manco = solid, nuff said. I liked that Carey went as far as to make John balding here (I knew he used a wig in Bad Blood) and I hot Mr. Bradstreet gets a hot blonde model for the covers. Good stuff.

 

One of the better issues out of the Carey run if not a little rushed with the meeting with Rosa. 8 out of 10

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Remember, these were "elseworld" tales!

Actually JW, reading your comments about the issue reminded me of how great some of the things that Carey put into each scenario were! Once again, this was wasted because it was so rushed. I think this would've been an excellent, excellent idea if each life was given two issues. Just like you mentioned about Gemma over-reaching John, that was a great touch! But, I forgot it happened, because it was so rushed. We really never got to see exactly how John would react to the fact that he was retired and out of Gemma's league.

 

Rogan-Len Wein & Bernie Writson's "Swamp Thing" was a great, great series! Very influential on a lot of Alan Moore's run.

But, that series got VERY bad after Wein left, and then they relaunched the series in the 80s, and before Moore took over, it was pretty much a Swamp Thing fights the monster or evil scientist of the month and wins comic. No thought.

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Much as I enjoyed #200, a few weeks' hindsight has convinced me that perhaps an 8/10 was a little generous. I'm equivocating here, but I'd say a 7 would be more like it. It was good...the ideas were excellent, I liked most of the art (even Dillon didn't annoy me too much) and there were some lovely pieces of dialogue and action. But I do feel Christian is right here, and it would have been better served by being told over 2 or more issues. Hmmm....

 

Oh, and I'm glad to hear my instincts re. post-Moore/Veitch Swampy were correct. Looking forward to checking out the Veitch stuff, and nothing after it...

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Just got the issue in the mail, thanks to McJohn...

 

 

(thanks, buddy!)

 

The artwork looks even better when printed. I migh be been tempted to give it a 6 or 7 if i were to vote again now...

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You see why I hardly ever post in this forum, as opposed to Down the Local, because I just now got around to reading 200! And it's October 22 by my watch!

 

Anywho, I dug it, and as usual I think the VFB crew have got it all figured out in re: compressed time and motive for revenge, future attacks on John, etc. I gave the issue overall a 7. Even though I am firmly in the Carey Camp (agree with Atticus, he's my fave HB writer), I felt this was too much story into too small a format and, I hate to say it, I didn't like any of the art except the kick-ass cover with the cigarettes in the birthday cake.

 

Most importantly I feel Carey has set up some sweet story arcs. I wonder if Constantine is going to take on his offspring and their mother one at a time or all together or what.

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As far as I know Rosecarnis is a new character, the daughter of Negral. I don't think she had anything to do with Newcastle, that was all her father's doing. She's one of Mike Carey's creations. I'm still thinking there's going to be a larger connection between Rose, Angie, and the Beast That Was Not Named as well as all that has gone on in Carey's run.

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But I do feel Christian is right here, and it would have been better served by being told over 2 or more issues.

But one issue is better suited toward something that really does take place in one 24 hour day. If it felt rushed, it's because Rosacarnis had very little time to do all she needed to. Constantine didn't really live however many years it took to bear and raise all three children; Rosa pushed him through an illusion, which became increasingly threadbare as he became more aware that the lives he was living weren't real.

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Right. Like when he reached over and yanked open the schoolmaster's desk drawer to find it empty and not stocked with the stapler and papers that were supposed to be in there - Rosacarnis didn't completely "dress the set" as it were.

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Well, that's why there's a difference between fiction and reality!!!

We can get away with stretching out a 24 hour period into months and months of comic books due to the fact that fiction does not work in "real-time".

You're writing for the readers, not for the characters themselves. They are the puppets of the writer. I'm sure everyone on the boards knows this fact! :lol:

 

#200 was like a dream state. How many can actually figure out how long their dreams are lasting? I've had dreams which seem to take up a whole day, but in actuality, I'm sure the dream is somewhere around 3 minutes. The whole "desk" analogy given by Charlie is a good example of a "dream state" scenario.

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What I'm saying is that the rushed pacing for #200 gives the feeling that Rosa was trying to do a lot very quickly. I know that the time it takes to read something, or to serialize it, may not correspond exactly or always closely to the time the action is supposed to take, but it often seems ridiculous to take months in reader time to tell what happens within a fictional day. I understand that mashing the whole experience into one 40 page book didn't work for some of us, but I'm happier with it than if it had taken a quarter of a year as some have suggested it should.

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Yeah, it took me an extra month to get my hands on HB 200.

 

Loved it. Mike did a very good job of imitating both Delano and Ennis's writing styles, with the various girlfriends. Nice alternate views of John, and an excellent setup. And the philosophy is good. John has kicked the best of Hell around, the best thing to get him will be... him. Mike is doing some very excellent stuff to a character that has been around the block two hundred times. John still isn't boring.

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I think we need to Timmy Bauer here to clarify this theological question.  Is it due to the lack of soul that they fail to grasp the nuances and complexities of humanity? Or is perhaps due to arrogance? Equipped with the superior powers of supernaturality do they underestimate humans who generally lack them?

Actually, I'd say it's their immortality. The cause is difficult to pin down, but since demons have been cataloged, at least by Christians, they have always had their own demesnes. Both angels and demons watch over certain aspects of the world, and tyey never change that. Mammon is always and shall always be all about Greed.

 

Being eternal, they don't grow, and they don't learn. Otherwise, humans would never have a chance against them. Spent 2,000 years (let alone eternity) honing your musical skills just to have some nose-pickin' hick in Georgia whup your ass playing the violin? Whether that's tied to a soul or not, I'm in no position to argue.

 

In Garth's writing, neither side understood humanity, because the Bible is not psychologically sound. The Big Punishments of the Old Testament wouldn't and don't motivate people, so Garth concludes that God doesn't understand what he has created. And the Upside can't, the Downside certainly can't.

 

That's my take, at least.

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Guest spiderlegs

So, are we to expect John's "kids" as recurring characters in the future fucking about all over the place?

 

I enjoyed the story. It was weird to see Dillon's art NOT describing an Ennis story (I realize it's happened before, but still...)

 

I think Manco's art will fit HELLBLAZER very well. It's dark, earthy. I think his run will be good.

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