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lyra

Post a gay or lesbian comic book character

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I found an interview with Frank Miller in which he states the Joker is gay in the Dark knight returns. There is an underlying jealousy with the Joker and Batmans sidekicks according to him.

"In a way, the Joker is a homophobic nightmare," and that he never had sex with one of his female henchmen because "sex is death to him. Put more accurately, death is sex.

 

The Watchmen has the character Silhouette a golden age character forced out of the minuteman superhero team due to lesbianism.

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Wasn't Morrison also trying to play up that angle of the Joker in Arkham Asylum?

He was, Morrison maintains that he was originally dressed in a corset and fishnets rather than the trenhcoat he's sporting in the finished comic.

Whick reminds me: nobody's mentioned Meng yet, have they?

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he's neither gay nor straight, nor anything else.

 

Morrissey used to say that shit, too. Did anyone really buy it?

But Morrissey wasn't a seven-foot nuclear ubermensch :tongue:

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he's neither gay nor straight, nor anything else.

 

Morrissey used to say that shit, too. Did anyone really buy it?

But Morrissey wasn't a seven-foot nuclear ubermensch :tongue:

Can we be sure that he didn't dress up in a daft costume of a night and hit people, though?

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Just as a side thing, I've seen people a number of times say that Ennis has trouble with sexuality and he looks at all of it in a funky way. I think this is flatly untrue: the sexuality in Jesse Custer's relationship with Tulip and JC's relationship with Kit seemed very healthy and normal.

 

So it's just some kinds of sexuality that Ennis treats as freakish, ugly or laughable. And those kinds are either fetishism, sadomasochism, or ... homosexuality. Everyone's done a real good job on Ennis' hangup on male homosexuality, but I don't see him regarding lesbians as human beings either. They appear rarely in his books, unlike homosexual men, but the one time two of them appeared, in the Son of Man arc in HB, the one lesbian (perhaps never shown but just referred to by another character) is living a stereotypical life so wrapped up in the gay community that he had another character describe that life as an "agenda", which is likely a coded contraction of the bigotted phrase "gay agenda". Also, confusing the gay community with the gay movement (which this one woman was clearly involved in) is something that homophobes typically do. Given his negative, stereotypical portrayal of a feminist in one issue of Preacher, I'd guess that part of his animosity toward lesbians is propelled by anti-feminist sentiment.

 

Oh, and the other lesbian can't wait to be away from her girlfriend so she can get screwed by a man. Oh yeah, that's a real positive, realistic portrayal that doesn't pander to anyone's contemptuous sexual fantasies....

 

Don't get me wrong, I think Ennis can write female characters, and often does it well. As long as they're straight....

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But therein lies the conundrum that is Ennis...I firmly believe he IS a, well, mook when it comes to ALL kinds of sexuality, but he's responsible for the most significant, and in my opinion, "real" female relationship with John in the HB universe.

 

Custer and Tulip, on the other hand, seem much more stock and typical for the action genre he was trying to emulate with Preacher. It's mostly lust and adrenaline the entire time, which compliments the series, but reading it all wrap up I don't get the sense of "they'll live happily ever after TOGETHER" that Ennis I think wanted us to feel. Maybe they will, maybe they won't...it's not a sure thing.

 

Ennis HAS written characters who are homosexual where they come across like it just "happens" to be that they're gay, so he doesn't seem hopeless...but I stand by that he's a bit of a "ooooh, icky!" boy when it comes to sex, period. He's presented plenty of straight characters as complete buffoons when it comes to sexuality, often WHILE they're having sex, or trying to.

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He's presented plenty of straight characters as complete buffoons when it comes to sexuality, often WHILE they're having sex, or trying to.

Maybe it's just my present state of addlement, but I'm drawing a complete blank on those instances (I can't remember any).

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Kev leaps to mine, so does (ech!) Goddess. I'm blanking on others at the moment...I just cringe in general when Ennis goes into sex-mode.

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Ennis has occasionally presented the funny side of sex, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do - sex is, after all, frequently very funny (I don't think he's particularly good at it, but that's a different issue). But over the course of his career, he's generally depicted male-female sexuality as normal, healthy, and natural. The same can quite emphatically not be said for his depictions of male-male, or female-female sexuality. Whatever other strengths and weaknesses one cares to identify in Ennis' work (and I can think of plenty of both), this is a serious criticism of him as a writer, and it's probably the one thing which troubles me about his work more than anything else. He's not just bad at portraying homosexuality, nor does he generally brush the subject under the carpet - he actually goes out of his way, time and time again, to present it as deviant, "perverted", and harmful. The fact that he usually does so in a "wink-wink, funny-ha-ha" way doesn't do nearly enough to undermine that fact, to me.

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I'm fairly certain that a lot of this is just childish bullshit rather than an actual, conscious anti-homosexual agenda, though. He's far from being a left-winger in terms of his opinions of sexuality, but the gay jokes seem to be more about him finding the idea of two men having sex funny rather than the kind of malicious hatred you'd get from some people.

 

And the end of More Kev suggests that he's been made aware of this and is willing to turn around, although he might have relapsed since then and I wouldn't know it since I don't think I've read anything of his since More Kev finished.

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Oh, I'd agree that it doesn't seem to be consciously intended in a malicious way. If I thought it was, I'd be a lot more vehement in my criticisms of him as a writer, for sure (I know I've focused on the negative aspects of Ennis' work lately, but I should stress that, at his best, he's a great writer, who's written some of my favourite comics). It's still a significant problem with his work, though, and one which his tendency to awkwardly shoe-horn the issue into so many of his stories makes hard to ignore.

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I remember one instance where Cassidy compares the taste of gravey to semen and he quickly corrects himself "or so I imagine it would taste like." He is very conscious of what Jesse thinks about him.

Later we learn Cassidy had to do a little of the rough trade for his heroin addiction. But Jesse really didn't bring that up when he talked to him again he was far more concerned with how he beat his former girlfriend and left her destitute. If he was overly homo-phobic wouldn't he have used that knowledge to pour salt into Cassidy's wounds so to speak.

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Oh, I'd agree that it doesn't seem to be consciously intended in a malicious way. If I thought it was, I'd be a lot more vehement in my criticisms of him as a writer, for sure (I know I've focused on the negative aspects of Ennis' work lately, but I should stress that, at his best, he's a great writer, who's written some of my favourite comics). It's still a significant problem with his work, though, and one which his tendency to awkwardly shoe-horn the issue into so many of his stories makes hard to ignore.

 

Man, finally, someone is able to say what I can't. Ennis' take seems like a bad joke...for me, the Hawk & Dove by Miller seemed malicious. I'm not even sure why...I was just very taken aback by it.

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MARK:

Ennis has occasionally presented the funny side of sex, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do - sex is, after all, frequently very funny (I don't think he's particularly good at it, but that's a different issue).

 

It's okay, we know what you meant. ;)

 

Yeah, sex is pretty absurd; especially so when it's other people's turnons, but even when it's one's own. Maybe Garth's just guilty of not lampooning his own tastes as often as he lampoons others'.

 

 

(I know I've focused on the negative aspects of Ennis' work lately, but I should stress that, at his best, he's a great writer, who's written some of my favourite comics).

 

Snap.

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Paradise Island is potential hotbed for lesbianism. There were a couple of Perez comics that touched on the issue saying that the Amazonian's found comfort in each other or were celebate. I remember a scene with two naked Amazonians in bed with each other annual one. I seriously doubt Dianna is a lesbian she's into bondage thats for sure but thats about it.

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Paradise Island is potential hotbed for lesbianism. There were a couple of Perez comics that touched on the issue saying that the Amazonian's found comfort in each other or were celebate. I remember a scene with two naked Amazonians in bed with each other annual one. I seriously doubt Dianna is a lesbian she's into bondage thats for sure but thats about it.

Apparently her creator (I forget his name offhand) had a taste for femdom, and had written about the innate superiority of women to men and how society should be run as a matriachy rather than a patriachy, so it isn't just bondage, she's into...

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Flogging the dead horse...

Because i couldn't explain it to a kid

A tip:

"Those two guys are kissing because they love each other. Some men love women, and some love other men."

 

:D

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And the inevitable response...

 

scanners1_001.jpg

 

 

HAHAHA Exactly.

Red!!!! You want me to blow my ficticious childs head off!!! I hope the commies take your socks (this might not make any sense if you haven't read the communist thread)

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Homosexuality isn't going to go away. In fact, GASP, it's actually going to grow more prevalent and accepted.

 

Right now, we see how far our society has come based on sexuality by the fact that we feel it's perfectly acceptable to show a man and a woman kissing, yet it's not acceptable to show a man and a man or woman and a woman kissing.

 

I can see the point that Marvel would not want to have to deal with parents complaining about them showing openly homosexual characters in their books that are read by children.

I don't agree with their policy, but from a business perspective I can understand.

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