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Never a fan of this approach, why not just hire one replacement artist.

 

Eh...depends on the story. If it's just a straightforward issue which happens to be illustrated by a number of different artists with no rhyme or reason it doesn't usually work, but I can think of plenty of examples of excellent comics which actively rely on the stylistic variation provided by several different artists for their effectiveness. Hellblazer #200 would be just one recent (and relevant to this place) example, and the first Legends Of The Dark Knight annual is another.

 

If Brubaker had already written the script when he found out that Marvel wanted loads of different artists, it'll probably be crap. But if he knew in advance that he'd be having a number of different artists for the issue, and was able to tailor the script accordingly, it could be good. The fact that he doesn't apparently know which artists will be illustrating the book is somewhat discouraging, but everything else he says suggests that it was a deliberate creative choice, in which case I'm looking forward to seeing what he does with the issue.

A chicken and the egg scenario really.

The multi artist spiel was initially simply to meet deadlines.

Ofcourse since then there have been successful writing contrivances to incorporate these changes in style and pace before (ala the ones I've mentioned on the very same title).

But mostly, even to this day it still seems like a contrivance (No matter how well) to incorporate this.

It's editorially avoidable, but seems to be deliberately done.

Perhaps it is a marketing tactic by Marvel.

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A chicken and the egg scenario really.

The multi artist spiel was initially simply to meet deadlines.

Ofcourse since then there have been successful writing contrivances to incorporate these changes in style and pace before (ala the ones I've mentioned on the very same title).

But mostly, even to this day it still seems like a contrivance (No matter how well) to incorporate this.

It's editorially avoidable, but seems to be deliberately done.

Perhaps it is a marketing tactic by Marvel.

 

 

I disagree completely, I'm afraid - I don't see your reasoning here at all, in fact. The fact that, in the past (including the very recent past - just look at Infinite Crisis, or even the final issue of 52), editors have sometimes had to get multiple artists to work on a script just to get the issue out in a timely manner, has nothing to do with the fact that sometimes a writer chooses to tell a story which requires a number of different artists, with contrasting styles, to work, and that the modern comics industry allows such a thing to be done when, in decades past, it wouldn't have happened. You're two conflating incomparable situations into a single, inaccurate generalization.

 

There's no way that the creative reasoning behind, for example, Hellblazer #200's multi-artist approach had anything at all to do with the sort of deadline pressure which resulted in the mess of Infinite Crisis #7 - and the idea that Carey's decision to write a story designed for multiple artists was "editorially avoidable", or (more importantly) that such an avoidance would actually be something to wish for, doesn't wash with me at all.

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A chicken and the egg scenario really.

The multi artist spiel was initially simply to meet deadlines.

Ofcourse since then there have been successful writing contrivances to incorporate these changes in style and pace before (ala the ones I've mentioned on the very same title).

But mostly, even to this day it still seems like a contrivance (No matter how well) to incorporate this.

It's editorially avoidable, but seems to be deliberately done.

Perhaps it is a marketing tactic by Marvel.

I disagree completely, I'm afraid - I don't see your reasoning here at all, in fact. The fact that, in the past (including the very recent past - just look at Infinite Crisis, or even the final issue of 52), editors have sometimes had to get multiple artists to work on a script just to get the issue out in a timely manner, has nothing to do with the fact that sometimes a writer chooses to tell a story which requires a number of different artists, with contrasting styles, to work, and that the modern comics industry allows such a thing to be done when, in decades past, it wouldn't have happened. You're two conflating incomparable situations into a single, inaccurate generalization.

 

There's no way that the creative reasoning behind, for example, Hellblazer #200's multi-artist approach had anything at all to do with the sort of deadline pressure which resulted in the mess of Infinite Crisis #7 - and the idea that Carey's decision to write a story designed for multiple artists was "editorially avoidable", or (more importantly) that such an avoidance would actually be something to wish for, doesn't wash with me at all.

The multi artist approach on anniversary comic issues is an all too regular occurence.

We all predicted that D.D #100 would to the very thing and it did.

It's seems to be a Marvel policy.

What started out way back, as a way to meet deadlines has become an editorially requested norm.

 

Yes it worked well on H.B #200, and the approach was most probably suggested by Carey, I don't specifically know this, perhaps you do.

I'm not arguing against "Multi-artist-approaches-from-inception", they often work well (ie The Filth).

 

However, this specifically was sparked by Brubaker not knowing who his other artists were, and that this marvelous-multi-artist-anniversary-issue-approach was probably something that he was put up too/saddled with.

So no matter how well done, it was most probably a contrivance.

 

Ofcourse I would rather have an approach that utilises or attempts to utilise this sometimes quite jarring mish mash of styles anyday over one -As you said the awful Infinte Crisis #7- that simply does not.

 

I just personally wish Marvel wouldn't use this approach, which D.D #100 may not be but which statistically most probably is.

Having a team of artists, doesn't make the issue special.

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The multi artist approach on anniversary comic issues is an all too regular occurence.

We all predicted that D.D #100 would to the very thing and it did.

It's seems to be a Marvel policy.

 

That's a totally different argument, though - "It shouldn't be done because it's a bad idea" (which is more-or-less what you said in your previous post, and is, obviously, a sentiment I disagree with) is a world away from "it shouldn't be done because it's a tired concept which has lost it's impact through over-use" (which I still don't entirely agree with, but can at least understand).

 

 

Yes it worked well on H.B #200, and the approach was most probably suggested by Carey, I don't specifically know this, perhaps you do.

 

I don't know for certain, but it's definitely the impression I got from comments made by the various people involved back when the issue came out. If I'm misremembering/misinterpreting, I apologise - but it doesn't change my underlying point.

 

I'm not arguing against "Multi-artist-approaches-from-inception", they often work well (ie The Filth).

 

Ah - see, I got the impression that you were, or at least that you weren't properly acknowledging the validity of such an approach (although I don't know what you mean about The Filth - am I entirely forgetting something, or wasn't that entirely illustrated by Chris Weston?). Sorry.

 

This specifically was however sparked by Brubaker not knowing who his other artists were, and that this marvelous-multi-artist-anniversary-issue-approach was probably something that he was put up too/saddled with.

So no matter how well done, it was most probably a contrivance.

 

Dunno if that's true or not - I don't think we've got enough information to make that call one way or the other yet. We'll just have to wait and see (although, based on our responses to Brubaker's run to date, I'd suspect that I'm likely to enjoy the issue, and you're likely to find it disappointing, for reasons which have very little, if anything, to do with how many artists illustrated it).

 

Having a team of artists, doesn't make the issue special.

 

True, but it doesn't make it bad, either.

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I'm not arguing against "Multi-artist-approaches-from-inception", they often work well (ie The Filth).

Ah - see, I got the impression that you were, or at least that you weren't properly acknowledging the validity of such an approach (although I don't know what you mean about The Filth - am I entirely forgetting something, or wasn't that entirely illustrated by Chris Weston?). Sorry.

As I've said often in film comments that I believe that any stylistic approach is valid, as long as it suits/expresses the film's subject/content adequately and appropiately.

Marvel however appear to traditionally utilise the style, whereas it seems that the writer must wrap the tale/content around this.

 

I believe that The Filth had both Gary Erskine and Chris Weston working together, one handling the "real life" and the other the not so.

Their styles are very similar or atleast both aimed for a common ground.

In terms of the art I thought that this was quite successful.

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Based on our responses to Brubaker's run to date, I'd suspect that I'm likely to enjoy the issue, and you're likely to find it disappointing, for reasons which have very little, if anything, to do with how many artists illustrated it).

Having a team of artists, doesn't make the issue special.

True, but it doesn't make it bad, either.

True and True.

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More about the villian behind the suicidal robbers and what's happening to the Gladiator.

(Unless the connection is a red herring that is) and future villians.

 

"It's a familiar villain," Brubaker said.

"I have to credit Ralph Macchio for pointing out this old Daredevil villain.

I had read just about every issue of 'Daredevil' at this point, so I knew this villain, but I actually hadn't considered much of them.

I was talking to Ralph about 'Daredevil' one day and he just sort of offhandedly suggested this character as someone who could have been a major Daredevil villain and he pointed out that up until Frank Miller, nobody really considered Bullseye to be Daredevil's arch nemesis.

So I thought, huh – taking an old Daredevil villain that has never been really seen as an arch nemesis and trying to make them a really cool and messed up villain might be fun."

 

We're also probably going to see a mixture of new and old Daredevil villains.

Right now I'm leaning towards using Ox just because I always thought Ox was such a cool looking character and I like the way Michael Lark draws big hulk like characters."

Place your bets?

Is Purple Man is too obvious?

 

Mad Cap!

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I believe thatThe Filth had both Gary Erskine and Chris Weston working together, one handling the "real life" and the other the not so.

Their styles are very similar or atleast both aimed for a common ground.

 

Looking around the 'net, I can't find anything which confirms that - most reviews/listings credit Erskine as the inker over Weston's pencils - but it's entirely possible they're just getting it wrong (I've seen plenty of references to Gerhard being Dave Sim's inker on Cerebus, for example). I'm not at home right now, so I can't check the book for myself - I'll look at it tomorrow, though.

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I believe thatThe Filth had both Gary Erskine and Chris Weston working together, one handling the "real life" and the other the not so.

Their styles are very similar or atleast both aimed for a common ground.

 

Looking around the 'net, I can't find anything which confirms that - most reviews/listings credit Erskine as the inker over Weston's pencils - but it's entirely possible they're just getting it wrong (I've seen plenty of references to Gerhard being Dave Sim's inker on Cerebus, for example). I'm not at home right now, so I can't check the book for myself - I'll look at it tomorrow, though.

Oh dear I hope I'm not talking out of my arse here :unsure: .

My comics are all boxed away.

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Oh dear I hope I'm not talking out of my arse here :unsure: .

 

 

Sorry, but according to this page on one of Morrison's official sites, you are.

 

I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells like...;)

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[i love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells like...;)

 

Oh dear, when did it become a competition?

Anyway my apologies, though the lawyer in me did say "I believe..." and our points still stand although one of my examples doesn't.

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No apologies necessary - I was only kiddin' wit'cha. :)

 

Until I found that page, I was mildly worried that it was actually me talking out of my arse, anyway.

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Bendis is Back Baby!

Bendis, David Mack, Bill Sienkowicz and Klaus Janson all on Daredevil:The End(Of Days)

 

daredevil_theend_part01.jpg

 

Matt Murdock gets the ending he deserves when "Daredevil: End of Days," a mini-series by writers Brian Michael Bendis and David Mack and featuring an all-star team of "Daredevil" artists hits stores.

"This is very exciting," Bendis told CBR News. "It actually came about because Klaus Janson and I had talked on and off for years about doing something. He was very supportive very early on of my and Alex's run on 'Daredevil.' It was a very emotional thing for us to get that kind of approval.

 

 

"So, Klaus and I were always talking about doing something and it never seemed to click," Bendis continued. "Then Warren Simons said, 'How about you guys do the last Daredevil story?' I forget how long I had been off Daredevil at that point, but I was like, 'I can't believe I'm going back to Daredevil.' Then me and David Mack were talking about him returning to mainstream comics, or I was yelling at him about returning to mainstream comics and this seemed like the perfect thing for him to do since David is also a well renowned Daredevil writer as well. Then someone said, 'How about this? You and David write it. Klaus Janson pencils it. Bill Sienkowicz inks it and Alex Maleev on covers."

With an all star team of creators assembled, all that was left was for Bendis and his collaborators to pitch their story of the Man Without Fear's final adventure.

 

 

"It goes a little further than most of 'The End' stories. And we make it cannon," Bendis explained. "This is in continuity; not too dissimilar to how 'Dark Knight Returns' became continuity through sheer force of will.

So we put it out there and everybody jumped."

 

 

Past "The End" style stories have been dystopian science fiction tales and "Daredevil: End of Days" will also contain some elements of that genre. "In our story, the natural progression of the future is a violent and dark underworld that has affected the character on a profound level," Bendis stated. "There's only two ways out of that world. You leave or you let it take you over. That's what this story is about.

Bendis compared the feeling evoked in "Daredevil: End of Days" to the critically acclaimed film "Children of Men" by writer/director Alfonso Cuarón. "That film had this look to the future that was fascinating without being too sci-fi-ish. We had written two issues before I had seen that film and when I saw it I was like, 'Wow, this is like what we're doing.'"

 

 

Bendis and his collaborators are still crafting "End of Days" and are unsure of exactly how many issues the mini-series will run, but know it's going to be at least six, with the first two issues being double sized.

In those issues, readers will become reacquainted with literally all the characters playing a role in Matt Murdock's life. "Almost all of Daredevil's rogue's gallery will be in the story," Bendis stated. "The second issue deals with all the surviving women in Daredevil's life. You'll see other Marvel Heroes; ones that often work with Daredevil or perhaps even ones that will be close to him in the future that you're not even aware of."

 

 

"Daredevil: End of Days" will feature a variety of characters, but not all of them are going to survive. "What happens in the first issue will shock you," Bendis said. "I was shocked we got away with it. Somebody dies. Somebody big dies brutally. There are many deaths in the first issue and Ed Brubaker, is being kept in the loop on everything.

"If you get suckered back into a book that you were already on, which is sometimes a disaster, this is the best way to do it, because now you get to tell the most insane story you could tell -- you're ending the book."

 

 

Bendis is overjoyed at the work the "Daredevil: End of Days" team is doing. Every creator involved on the project is giving it their all because they want the project to be something special.

"We want to have segments where each artist can express themselves on top of being part of the machine."

"It's not only the last Daredevil story, it's a valentine to all that Daredevil represents in the Marvel Universe," Bendis explained.

 

 

"I always considered 'Daredevil' to be the book that fans expect the most from creatively. I definitely felt that when I first got the book. You can't fuck up 'Daredevil.' If you fuck it up, it will be glaring. Other characters have good runs but the long list of outstanding runs on 'Daredevil' was so big that it was like, 'Boy if you fuck this up, you suck.' So on top of all this other stuff it's about what this book has represented to Marvel since Wally Wood and Jack Kirby."

Overjoyed!!!

I love me some Bendis, even if he's writing too many titles a month.

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Marvel have decided to make anniversary issues into artist jams. Apparently, they do feel it increases sales.

I think it's a pretty stupid decision to make your anniversary issues special by having lots of artists on the book. How is that an anniversary? Especially seeing as most of the artists picked never even worked on that title. I could see it being special if they brought back lots of past artists on a title for an anniversary issue.

Nothing against the format itself, just Marvel's policy to use it as a half-assed way to attempt to make an anniversary "special".

 

Oh, let's see....who's a good, older D.D. villain to place money on as the mystery villain.....

Frog Man?

I mean, D.D. has such a rich and interesting cast of villains, after all! I'm sure everyone is clamoring for the return of the Masked Marauder!

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Oh, let's see....who's a good, older D.D. villain to place money on as the mystery villain.....

Frog Man?

Like it's ever really stopped anyone before...but isn't he dead?(Bendis' first story with Mack).

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Frogman could just be replaced by somebody else in the costume.

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Yeah. That's my favourite Bendis story actually.

I thought Stilt Man was dead also though.

Yes sir, offed by the Maxless Punisher for crimes against gravity or something.

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I don't want to give too much away, but part of what I enjoyed in those issues is the portrayal of Bullseye's psychosis. He begins to believe that he is Daredevil because he wears the costume and acts like him, so in his own twisted sense of justice (although perhaps it's a more realistic sense of justice than the real Daredevil, there's that sense of moral ambiguity), Bullseye begins to rob from the rich and give to the poor. The purpose of Bullseye taking Daredevil's identity originally was to discredit him, but Bullseye's convoluted actions lead the people of Hell's Kitchen to love D.D. even more.

That sounds great.

I'm more interested in Matt becoming his Father though.

By becoming both a lawyer and Daredevil (Using the moniker and/or the boxing costume), it seems Matt's entire purpose in life has been to redeem his father.

 

Other people dressing as Daredevil has become a quite the Daredevil theme.

Black Panther, Spiderman, Iron Fist, Born Again's nutter, Bullseye and even Foggy have all dressed up as Horn Head.

Like some form of shadow boxing.

 

The site mentions that J.M.Dematteis wrote a few issues.

Read any?

 

And quite randomly did you perhaps read the single issue where D.D alone defeats the Absorbing Man?

Issue 300 and something.

My curiosity here was if they addressed and explored the fact that Cutter Creel (Pre his gaining of Superpowers) was the last opponent Jack Murdock fought against.

Or was that only retconned by Daredevil:Yellow?

Again more father issues.

 

Test-Did you know about this? I was reading the Marvel previews for June online and saw this. Sounds like what you're looking for.

 

DAREDEVIL: BATTLIN' JACK MURDOCK #1 (of 4)

Written by ZEB WELLS

Story by CARMINE DI GIANDOMENICO & ZEB WELLS

Pencils and Cover by CARMINE DI GIANDOMENICO

The fire that burns in the chest of Matt Murdock finds its origin in this 4-issue limited series by fan-favorite writer Zeb Wells and international superstar Carmine Di Giandomenico. Learn the story of Daredevil's father -- the comic-book icon Battlin' Jack Murdock -- as he boxes four rounds in what is destined to be the last fight of his life. See what leads the man who raised Daredevil to betray his gangland bosses and fight with integrity…even if it means his own death!

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Wasn't that already told in DD: Yellow and some of Frank Millers run?

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Probably. Except this time written by an author known for comedy, so it's probably read very awkwardly....plus, instead of told in one issue, it'll be stretched into 4, so we'll find out all sorts of new facts, like what brand of cereal Jack Murdoch liked to eat.

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Probably. Except this time written by an author known for comedy, so it's probably read very awkwardly....plus, instead of told in one issue, it'll be stretched into 4, so we'll find out all sorts of new facts, like what brand of cereal Jack Murdoch liked to eat.

Yeah I had but cheers.

 

I saw some art bits and pieces and wasn't that impressed.

 

I'm a tad concerned really, I think that they're going to do some serious remodelling and retconning on this one.

It's four issues long so it's going to have to have some plot justifications for Marvel?

Nevertheless I hope that Cutter Creel remains Jack's last opponent.

 

There may be some life in the pitch and it sounds like a good one shot.

I just don't particulary want to see some rehashs or things like Jack and Sister Maggie/gloria or whatever fall out.

It seems a bit redundant.

I'm more interested in Jack's time as an mob enforcer (Which Daredevil:Father expanded upon nicely).

Obviously I'm idly speculating.

 

Who knows perhaps it's a fabiously decompressed but superbly detailed Boxing match told over four issues (Four rounds probably).

Anyway I've been recently bitten by the Daredevil bug and am ploughing through my back issues.

I hope this turns out great.

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