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Selkie

Recommend a Superman comic

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Yeah! How exactly does Superman feel about the stench of Lois' humanity?

"Lois dear, could you go take another shower. You're really smelling."

"What the fuck, Clark? I just took eight showers today! My skin is starting to crack!"

"Super smelling, dear. Super smelling."

"Well you never fucking bathe!"

"Super hygiene, dear. Super hygiene."

"Clark, I want a divorce!"

"Sorry, Lois. Super morals."

HA! :biggrin: Good one. That made me laugh so hard, that had I been drinking milk I surely would have squirted it out my nose.

 

Couldn't he just use his heat vision to burn the bacteria of Lois to clean her?

But then if Supes is not careful Lois could end with a really dark tan or you know...dead.

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Read Alan Moore's run on Supreme. It's Superman stories without Superman!

Or one could read my earliar post about the two Supreme trades.

The names have been changed, but it's very much Superman, in a good way too.

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Anyone mentioned the 'Doomsday' series? Not the biggest character development ever, but great stuff nonetheless.

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Do you mean the "Death Of Superman" books? Because they were shit.

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I got that from the library, didn't read it, forgot to return it, and had to pay a massive fine. I don't know how shitty it was inside, but I will forever hate it anyway.

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Ha! That's really sad....Forever on your record will be marked, "She refused to return Superman:Doomsday! We can only wonder how many times she reread the book when it was in her collection. Please note, this person loves Superman:Doomsday!"

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You can read the issue of Hitman wherein Superman guest-stars here, it really is quite splendid.

 

Just read it again. It's been a few years since I read it last I reckon and I love it every bit as much now as I did when I originally turned that first page to read it.

Am I the only one who thought that was utter despicable shit? The central premise is that the "problem with america" is that immigrants hang on to their own culture, and that THAT'S WHAT CAUSES THE US TO FIGHT WARS! Whereas Supes, like a good American doesn't. Rubbish. Although the fanboy geekiness of Hitman was entertaining.

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I think that issue was trying to say that groups of people carry their respective culture's animosity toward other cultures with them to America, and that they don't respect the cultures of others while vehemently supporting their own. But I could just be typing out of my ass. I liked it. I like Tommy, I like Garth, I like Superman, I liked that issue.

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You know, America was built on the premise of immigration, as long as the immigrants were white, except for when there were work shortages.

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I think that issue was trying to say that groups of people carry their respective culture's animosity toward other cultures with them to America, and that they don't respect the cultures of others while vehemently supporting their own.

...and this still is a very very poor analysis of "what's wrong with america". Worse, it's got a serious reactionary side, since it's pretty easy in an american setting to use this against new wavesd of immigrants. "Why do you stick to your old culture, why don't you assimilate into our magnificent american melting pot?"

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You can read the issue of Hitman wherein Superman guest-stars here, it really is quite splendid.

Just read it again. It's been a few years since I read it last I reckon and I love it every bit as much now as I did when I originally turned that first page to read it.

Am I the only one who thought that was utter despicable shit? The central premise is that the "problem with america" is that immigrants hang on to their own culture, and that THAT'S WHAT CAUSES THE US TO FIGHT WARS! Whereas Supes, like a good American doesn't. Rubbish. Although the fanboy geekiness of Hitman was entertaining.

It wasn't the central premise at all, but just part of a one-page speech of encouragement. And I thought it was highly authentic, the type of half-baked thing a New York "little guy" might come up with when waxing philosophical about the way things are. And there would be truth to it from Monaghan's perspective, because immigrants to New York often really do act the way he described, forming into tightknit neighborhood communities and maintaining old attitudes, some of them negative ones. Whether you think any immigrant should jump into the melting pot or not, for working class immigrants it hasn't been a matter of choosing or foregoing an erudite, multi-lingual household but of getting up to speed learning English and fitting in, while working hard to get by, versus sticking to one's own kind and language group, thereby severely impacting one's ability to get along in the world.

 

I didn't spot any mention of foreign war-making. I took Monaghan's words to mean continuing the old social wars within the United States.

 

Yes, Tommy's spiel could be seen as anti-immigrant by someone who brings an anti-immigrant animus to his reading of the book, but xenophobia was not the point of what Tommy was saying. Okay, it makes too much of the melting pot, but the point he makes is not a wholly invalid one. You may not be aware of this, but we've had multiple publicized cases of Vietnamese immigrants being murdered by other Vietnamese immigrants for being insufficiently anti-communist. (I'm sure that more of this has happened among Cuban immigrants.) I remember the anti-communist fanaticism of Vietnamese immigrants in the 1970s, and it was very unpretty. I think the growing up of the younger immigrants and children of the immigrants who really don't give a crap about the anti-communism is one of the good things to happen to that community and to the U.S. I'll readily admit to having some sympathy for Tommy Monaghan's viewpoint in that regard.

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OK, I re-read it, and the sentence about fighting wars was as you described it, and my criticism falls flat there. Sorry.

However, I still think that the argument is bullshit and reactionary. Not that there can't be problems with people keeping their cultural heritage, but as a summing up of what, in Hitman's words "the problem with america" is, it's just silly. I can think of a dozen factors of US society and history which is way way more important in understanding what the "problem" is, than what he says.

 

His attitude may well be "believable", but he is very clearly used as a talking head for the writer, in this story, so the content must be judged according to whether it makes sense.

 

In a sense, it reminds me of the JC story "Shoot", where the writer (Ellis, was it not?) uses the comic to expound his poorly-thought-out theory about some problem in society. That's his prerogative, of course, but I don't have to agree, or like it.

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Yes, Tommy's spiel could be seen as anti-immigrant by someone who brings an anti-immigrant animus to his reading of the book, but xenophobia was not the point of what Tommy was saying.

 

Probably worth pointing out that Tommy is himself a first-generation immigrant, as are several of the book's supporting cast, so any anti-immigrant sentiment you may read into the spiel in this issue is probably inadvertent, or not there at all.

 

I agree that, as an analysis of the deep-rooted cultural problems in America, this issue falls flat - therefore, it's probably a good thing that the issue isn't really about that, isn't it? It's about Superman, who is simultaneously the most all-American icon in the DC Universe, and the highest-profile immigrant to the States. So, it's hardly surprising that Ennis/Tommy chooses to focus specifically on that aspect of US culture. It's the aspect which is most directly relevant to the situation/story at hand. Take the issue out of context, and read it as an essay on everything which is wrong with America, and what should be done about it, Red's criticisms aren't invalid, but I'd suggest that by doing that, you miss the point of the issue.

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So do you agree then, that immigrants keeping some of their cultural identity is a Bad Thing? I don't. In fact, I find the idea offensive, in the sense that it belittles the value of the cultural identity people have from decades living in other parts of the world. We have the exact same debate in Norway: Right-wing politicians state that in order to "fit in" in Norway, you have to leave all your original culture behind, especially if you come from somewhere far away. ("non-western")

 

(Anyway, using Superman, of all people, as an example of an "immigrant" is silly beyond words. He has absolutely NOTHING of Krypton's culture, since he arrived here as an infant. He's as much an "immigrant" as Korean adopted kids in Norway are "immigrants". Of COURSE Superman adjusted to mainstream US culture -he's never been exposed to anything else!)

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Do you mean the "Death Of Superman" books? Because they were shit.

 

 

They reinvented the word shit.

 

Probably. But I was seven at the time. I blame my ignorance on my lack of puberty.

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So do you agree then, that immigrants keeping some of their cultural identity is a Bad Thing? I don't.

 

Neither do I - but based on this issue (and the rest of Hitman, which is the context in which this issue needs to be judged) neither does Garth Ennis.

 

We have the exact same debate in Norway: Right-wing politicians state that in order to "fit in" in Norway, you have to leave all your original culture behind, especially if you come from somewhere far away. ("non-western")

 

It's that unwarranted leap from "some" to "all" which is where I think your interpretation of this issue goes somewhat awry, and that's where I disagree with you.

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Dragging this thread back to its original intent, however briefly:

 

I just finished A-SS #s 1 & 2, and you guys were right. They're as well-written as I can imagine a Superman story can be (and while I still think Quitely's art is ugly, it's at least less ugly than it was circa The Authority).

 

The conclusion is also now official: I am not ever going to be a Superman fan. Ever, ever, ever. Give me Azzarello's Lex Luthor any day, but the big blue boy scout himself? Not a chance.

 

Thanks for all the recommendations, folks.

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Superman: Last Son of Earth 1-2 Earth is destroyed and it's last son is saved by entering a worm hole casued by an aftershock the meteorite impact sending it to krypton. I won't spoil it but I'm not a big superman fan it was one of the best comic's i've read this year.

The real superman is another good elseworlds

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Was I the only one that liked Busiek's Superman-Secret Identity?

 

I know that #1 held a lot more promise, than the actual series ultimately delivered, but it was still fucking fantastic.

Kurt really gets under the skin.

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No. I liked Superman:Secret Identity.

I just thought because it wasn't the "real" Superman that it might not count on this subject.

 

Lyra-Was "Superman: Last Son of Earth" written by Steve Gerber?

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I read #1 of Secret Identity. It didn't make me want to read the rest of it, so, I guess I didn't like it.

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Ha! That's really sad....Forever on your record will be marked, "She refused to return Superman:Doomsday! We can only wonder how many times she reread the book when it was in her collection. Please note, this person loves Superman:Doomsday!"

Sorry, just read this and... well, I laughed. (I no longer know what to say. Do I say "LOL"? "BOLSOK"? What if I don't even like to drink coffee, ever?)

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