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Christian

The Eternal Thread

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That's a bit harsh - the original Eternals series is a long way from Kirby at his finest, but even second-rate Kirby is a sight better than most writers/artists' best work.

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I'd say the biggest reason Kirby's Eternals didn't work was that he was forced to try and shoehorn the title into the Marvel Universe. It didn't fit in the Marvel U and didn't want to be there, but to get it published at Marvel, Kirby had to try and make it fit there.

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I'd say the biggest reason Kirby's Eternals didn't work was that he was forced to try and shoehorn the title into the Marvel Universe. It didn't fit in the Marvel U and didn't want to be there, but to get it published at Marvel, Kirby had to try and make it fit there.

It worked well within a Marvel context in the Earth X Trilogy :happy:

Oh come on Christian you love it.

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That's definitely part of the problem, aye -there's an inconsistency of tone over the whole series, and I suspect that's one of the things which caused it.

 

It's a flawed work, for sure, but nothing is ever going to get me to totally dislike any comic with that glorious '70s-era Kirby art.

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Well art's one thing.

Kirby was one of the greatest artists ever in the business and one of the best Idea men, but his writing usually left something to be desired.

 

I read those Jack Kirby "Machine Man" issues in awe. They're just the most bizarre things ever written. There's something that makes me keep coming back and reading them even though I know in my head the writing is, by literary standards, awful.

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Why hold to "literary standards" something which was written to be nothing of the sort? Books like The Eternals, New Gods and Kamandi, The Last Boy On Earth weren't intended to be literary masterpieces, they were intended to be wild, free-flowing pop comics (the type of thing Grant Morrison has always wanted to be able to write, but generally has problems creating, due to a tendency to over-complicate things). As such, they're written perfectly well.

 

I like Kirby's writing a lot, myself. His dialogue is unnatural and stylised, and his characters tend to be fairly simply-drawn, but the stories are so imaginative, brilliantly-paced and satisfying that I don't really mind.

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Have you read his Machine Man or Devil Dinosaur though?

 

They're quite a few levels removed from New Gods or Kamandi.

They read like a person on an acid trip trying to stay grounded. It's just so hard to describe, except to say that unless you're reading them in the 1970s, they're just plain bizarre!

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Ah, sorry - I misread your post, and thought you were talking about Kirby's writing in general. Haven't actually tried his Machine Man, so I can't say if I agree with your take or not - it sounds plausible enough, though.

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Guest spiderlegs

Just picked up #1. I will read it and report back, as I have not read this thread but plan to upon completion of said #1. word.

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This is really unimpressive, so far. I'm sorry they didn't give Morrison these toys to play with.

 

Oh, and people, get your eyesight checked, J.R. JR is, was, and will be a mediocre-to-horrible artist.

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You are quite astonishingly wrong. Again.

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Ah, yes, who else is on my artist black list, that you're fond of...?

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All but a relatively small handful of the artists who worked on Sandman, as I recall.

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Ah. Snejbjerg, Jones, Jill Thompson... god, why DON'T they let someone else redraw it...?

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I'm not particularly fond of Thompson's art, and Snejberg is someone I can take or leave, but are you seriously complaining about Kelley Jones? Those are among the best-illustrated issues in the series.

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Wait. I get him mixed up with the other chap. Dringenberg? Who else did the first trade? It was all hit 'n' miss.

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Wait, Kelley Jones did Calliope, right? And bits of Season of Mists? I love his artwork.

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Ah - the first trade is far and away the weakest, art-wise, and Kelley Jones had nowt to do with it. That was Sam Kieth and Mike Dringenberg, with Malcolm Jones III inks (which is probably why you're getting confused). Kelley Jones did Season Of Mists, among others.

 

Mind you, I don't think that Kieth or Dringenberg are bad artists, by any means - they just had the misfortune to be responsible for the very early issues, before the identity of the series had really settled down.

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I don't think I've seen much of his work, outside of Sandman - what else has he done?

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Which issues did Dringenberg do? His name rings a positive bell in my head.

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Which issues did Dringenberg do? His name rings a positive bell in my head.

Most of it between Sound and Fury and the prologue to Season of Mists: it was just the occasional issue here and there (a Doll's House story and most of Dream Country, iirc) that he didn't do.

I'd have said the problem with Sam keith was probably unsympathetic inking and colouring more than anything else, given that his work on the Sandman is the only art of his I've seen that I've really disliked and he tends to ink his own stuff elsewhere. His style possibly isn't very appropiate for the rather dour tone of the early issues, either, but that wouldn't lead to him churning out crap artwork.

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Ah, yes, Keith has some very good solo output, artistically, and it's interestingly written, though not always great.

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Ah, yes, Keith has some very good solo output, artistically, and it's interestingly written, though not always great.

His art on the Maxx was absolutely beautiful: some of the best comics art I've ever seen anywhere, to be honest. I'm really pleased DC are collecting that stuff now that they've acquired his services. It's what descriptions of Mike Ploog's stuff always leave you hoping he draws like.

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Guest spiderlegs

Meanwhile, back to the Eternals:

 

what issue are they up to now? I've only read the first one.

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