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X-Men Reloaded

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Mike Carey's X-Men part 2-I'm not sure what's going on. Bachalo's art was better, for the most part in this issue. It didn't make your brain bleed. These new villains need to be fleshed out. Right now, they're periously close to Chris Claremont "I introduced a new villain. Isn't he cool?! He hates the X-Men, because, umm....Because he's a villain! Isn't he cool?!" territory. Faceless ciphers doing EVIL.

It's still the best X-Men book at the moment, but hopefully the plot will come together soon.

Agreed, but it's early days yet.

I prefer this to Brubaker's.

I do like how it appears that the two core X-Titles are working around each other.

Hopefully there will be more of this, without it ever being painful exposistion.

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This Brubaker ish was just simply shit.

Nuff said.


Brubaker's Marvel work is quickly becoming quite underwhelming.


I hope Criminal is the equivalent of Sleeper.

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I thought it was an improvement over the first two issues by Brubaker.

Some nice exposition for the plot.

It's X-Men by the numbers. If you're a big X-fan who wishes the book would go back to being more like it was in the early-80s, you'll probably enjoy it. Although, your mileage on space opera plots may vary.

Very underwhelming for Ed Brubaker, but I'm not sure what I was ever expecting him to do with the X-Men.

I'm unsure of this "each individual of a 12-part plot will detail a complete event in the overall plot" method.

It's a way to do a 12-part story, all leading to a big war, without the complaints of decompression, but I'm not exactly sure how successful an idea it actually is.

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I would like to reiterate that this issue was shit.

Shit fill in artist.

Shit cover artist (too much for Billy Tan to have atleast drawn the cover?).


Shit exposistion for a series that was a direct spin off of Deadly Genesis.

Shit and unimaginative exposistion of the events of Deadly Genesis.

Shit justifications and character writing for Vulcan's continued revenge.

Shit concept (third Summers brother).

Shit X-Men name.

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You just know how to write a logical review, dont 'cha? :rolleyes:

I've written many.

Although that above rant is not entirely illogical, it did serve to accurately show just how upset I was with not only that specific issue (and in comparison to the two preceeding issues and the poor Deadly Genesis) but Ed Brubaker's Marvel writing so far.



-John Watson's cover was poor.

It was unimaginative in composition and it's faded soft tone "arty" painted feel served no higher metaphoric point or purpose.


In the work of Alex Ross, this look is usually relevant, ie depicting classic and Golden Age superheros, or say the 50's feel of Astro City.


Stylistically, Watkin's cover was at odds with the tone already set by both of Billy Tan's preceeding covers and Marc Silvestry's Deadly Genesis covers.


This is an angered Omega powered mutant flying through space to tear the Shiar a new one.

This needed a high octane Jim Lee cover or something.


Changing the cover artist and the tone, breaks the artistic feel of an inclosed run.

Twelve issues is really not that enormous or unwieldly, even if Tan could not pencil this issues interiors, atleast he could have done the cover for this issue?


Ofcourse the changing of the interior artist is more understandable, but it's not like guest artist Clayton did the cover either.




-Clayton Henry's interiors were quite poor in both the storytelling and suggested motion departments (very important if most of your issue is a highspeed space battle).

His layouts were very basic too.


His flavourless Terry Dodgson impersonation was a major artistic step down from Billy Tan's relatively decent work.


If Marvel's going to do a filler issue (which this very much was), couldn't they atleast hire someone special?


Clayton's art is not the sole problem here, not at all, but fused with Brubakers personally lazy and lacklustre storytelling here, it only highlights the issues general lack of quality.


Ofcourse I do understand the need to have a guest artist (a term that has surely been spun), but already?

Two issues in? :ohmy:




-The Third Summers Brother reveal in Deadly Genesis (which this run is a direct sequel of) was uninspiring enough, but it atleast had the benefit of been wrapped within the revealing process.


Broken down into a quick and unimaginative plot recap, this now naked bit of plot looks even more ridiculous and hollow.



-We already know that Vulcan has destroyed the stargates, it was the cliffhanger of the previous issue (a whole two weeks ago :ohmy: ).

All this issue really did was show that Vulcan was going to take on the Emperial Guard.


Hell everyone and their mother has to take on the Shiar Royal Guard if they just drift anywhere near Shiar Space er... space.

If you as the reader were not expecting them (Spoilt by the cover of the first issue ofcourse), then the reveal of the Guards themselves, as a tired cliffhanger, would mean very little to you too.

The battle between Vulcan and the Shair Guard could have taken place in this issue itself.


Brubaker's depiction of the Shiar and their customs did not really push or progress past depictions of them.

Thus devoting much of this issue to it was rather pointless.

From the previous two issues (and Deadly Genesis) new readers would have already gained enough of a sense of the Shiar Empire.

Long term X readers would have nothing new to chew on here either.


Brubaker failed to show any pathos or irony in this Shiar crew, forced by a loophole of sorts in their own sense of warrior honour, turning on their own, not just country, but Homeworld.



-The rational of Vulcan was very rushed and assumed. Despite incredible revelations, Vulcan continues unconvincingly in his revenge.

I don't necessaily mind the mental outcome, but I do mind the path taken to reach it.

Or is just being insane, writing contrivance enough?



-Much of the issue could have been summated in a few lines and/or covered by the previous issue, or incapsulated on one page of the next issue.

It also could have been revealed in some of the pages of Carey's X-Men, as admirably both titles appear to be attempting some sort of symbioses.




Ultimately, this issue was your classic and cynical Marvel stalling/fill in issue, caused specifically by Marvels's double issue X-Men gimmick (to coincide and compete with DC's signifigant Batman relaunch).

This from the company that released Identity Disc to rival DC's Identity Crisis for godsake.


This was also Marvels way to make extra money of off it's readers by having it buy two issues of it's flagship title in one month.


I would rather have waited a month for each issue if i knew that this drop in quality would occur.

I expect this of Marvel, and am now coming to expect this from Brubaker at marvel too.


Make Mine DC.


I do however find the love of all things Gavin Rossdale to be highly illogical :rolleyes: .

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So, yeah, I picked up and read Carey's latest issue yesterday and I have to say I absolutely loved it. I suppose now we have our established team with a nice splash page showing them all 8-)


The art was great. My eyes are really getting used to Bachalo's style, and I absolutely hated it before until I was exposed to that art from last issue from that fill-in!! :o


But yes, this story is starting to pick up and a lot of nice character moments. I nearly cussed seeing what happened to Iceman. Carey does a great job so far in this title and there's no way in hell all this is going to be resolved in the next issue. Knowing Carey's style, he makes a huge epic story and this'll be a story branching onto multiple great stuff for the next year or so. I'm sure he'll impress! :)

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Bachalo's art was better this issue.

Did you notice he had like six inkers working this issue?

Me thinks they really worked hard to help Bachalo's artwork look sensible to the eyes.


I like Mike Carey's X-team, but this story-arc does nothing for me. The villains are just personalityless. They finally got around to introducing one of the characters and a few of their powers these last two issues, but really, I have no idea who these characters are or what they hope to accomplish!

The origin tale last issue I thought was going to pave the way for us finally figuring out the purpose of these villains...but no....this issue they go right back to being generic X-villains.

They wanted to kill Sabretooth for discovering that they exist, then they had to kill the X-Men because Sabretooth took his story to them....and now they're in a giant floating ship about to crush the X-mansion. Is that really the best way to keep the world from finding out about your existence?

And, no one's ever going to find out about your existence, because you're all ciphers!

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Haha, yeah, but after they rid themselves of the X-Mansion, don't they hope to basically kill everyone else? I wonder if we'll discover someone that programmed them, because I have a feeling theres WAAAY more to this story. But yeah, I was reading the past X-Men issues and I've been noticing so much sympathey that Sarafina has since Carey's very first issue. I'm sure she'll play a huge bit in the next issue, possible help the X-Men escape, etc.


And yeah, I was also looking at the inker credits and all, but not I'm really starting to like Chris Bachalo. I seriously hated the fill in in the last issue, he was so bland and boring and I honestly don't want to see Bachalo leave this run before Carey finishes. This coming from a person who HATED Bachalo's art when it was announced that he was drawing and the first few issues of this arc. But oh, boy, his Ultimate X-Men run was... TERRIBLE!

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. . .


Oh, wow, I'm surprised that never came to mind... I'd love to see that! Hey Carey, if you're reading this, change whatever you have planned to include Sinister as the creator of the Children. 8-)

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I'm pretty sure I remembered Carey mentioning that he did plan to use Mr. Sinister, and as soon as I saw the first issue of Carey's run, I was thinking this is one of Sinister's genetic experiments.

So, hopefully I'm right.....

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Read the Messiah CompleX stuff that's been released to-date and....it's alright, though the art and colouring throughout tends to verge on the bloody appalling - especially in terms of actual sequential storytelling.


Story's pretty straight forward, there's a new mutant born and everyone wants to get their hands on it - cue all the various surivivng mutant groups kicking off and beating the shit out of each other.

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Digging out this old, dated thread to put this in, since I couldn't figure where it should go, and didn't want to start a brand new thread.

I'm currently in between novels at the moment, and decided to take a page from JasonT's playbook, and re-read my favourite childhoold comic series...The Uncanny X-Men (originally known simply as X-Men).

Unlike JasonT, I can say that I have not been traumatized by realizing that all my childhood memories are lies and that this character I read about all these years actually sucks.

Having a limited amount of Silver Age material, and years and years of Chris Claremont on X-Men can do that, as opposed to Amazing Spider Man, I suppose.

I'm only reading up until #280, when Claremont leaves the title, as I have zero interest in any X-Men comics after Claremont's oriignal run (although the Morrison run on New X-Men bears re-reading at some time).


I'm currently towards the end of the Claremont/Byrne days, so lots of classic stories still to go.

One thing that stood out to me is that the Lee/Kirby run doesn't get enough credit. It was far from their best work, but it had things in its favour too. The whole concept, while ultimately underdeveloped, is actually quite interesting from the beginning. Regardless of why Lee wanted to use a team of mutant superheroes, there's a nice charm to those Lee/Kirby issues. The introduction of the Sentinles and Master Mold is a high point during those early days, for mine.

There's a reason why a lot of the most remembered villains from X-Men history come from the Lee/Kirby period too....Magneto, Sentinels, Juggernaut, Blob.

The Savage Land might belong more to a comic like Fantastic Four, but it's still a great Kirby-concept in the X-Men comic.


It was after Kirby left, and then later, when Lee left, that the book gets to be a chore to read. There's still a good issues here and there amongst the Silver Age goofiness. I like the Juggernaut, the end of the Mutant Master, and Grotesk stories, for example. One problem is that the X-Men lost its uniqueness after, as the X-Men were fighting generic Marvel super-villain threats.


Eventually, we come to the Thomas/Neal Adams issues. These gets more praise than other early X-Men stories, usually, but I still don't fully get it. These were the issues that made Claremont want to write X-Men comics. The art was magnificent, no doubt. I have a soft spot for Sauron, mostly as a character design. The Sentinels story-arc wasn't bad. It's not that I dislike this era, it's just that I don't find it to be that great.

Then, reprints.


Now, we enter the Claremont run, starting with Classic X-Men #1...a reprint of Giant-Size X-Men #1 with much more Chris Claremont, and onward to #94.

A lot of people say this is the height of the X-Men's history...the original Cockrum and Byrne period. I disagree strongly. I found them to be good stories, and still enjoy them, but I feel Claremont gets much better.

My heart belongs to the Australian outback period as my favourite. We'll see if that still remains the case when I finish. I do feel that Claremont's writing continues to grow stronger and stronger during this epic run, until after Inferno. It's true that based on all evidence (and we'll see when I get there) that Claremont's writing does eventually burn out towards the end.


So, yeah, classic stories like the Dark Phoenix Saga, eh? Lots of space opera stuff. Very little done with the concept of mutants as a persecuted minority yet. That'll become a big aspect of Claremont's run, finally figuring out the purpose of X-Men, as an unique concept, rather than another superhero title.

And, Jean is dead and Scott leaves the team. That's where I leave off.

I haven't gotten to Days of Future Past yet. I greatly look forward to reading that story again. That is a true classic. The effects of that story will play a very important role during the period when I feel X-Men started to hit its peak, after Claremont gets rid of Professor X.

What I did change my opinion of was that I enjoyed the Hellfire Club as villains a great deal on my re-reading, as opposed to when I first read these issues as a child. I thought the Hellfire Club was boring back then. Now, I see that they work great as antagonists to the X-Men.

That will become ever more apparent, as Claremont begins to deconstruct the concept of the X-Men and mutants based on the Stan Lee premise.


So, yeah, I've mostly been enjoying what I've been reading, unlike JasonT.

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I've gotten through the John Romita Jr. era now.

There are some vast improvements. The book often gets darker, and gets a real 1980s feel that I would place alongside the feel of the more down "mature readers" books that DC was publishing around the same time.

We start to see the anti-mutant themes that made Claremont's run stand out come to the fore in the latter 100s (roughly around 190-200, I suppose).

At the same time, there's a lot of time wasting. Many issues seem to add nothing to the wider on-going story-arcs that Claremont had been creating in X-Men.

I wonder if some of the contention from fans that Claremont needs a good artist to work with is true? That the artist helped feed Claremont ideas? Here, I think we see authentic plots from Claremont, but maybe his losing direction and not knowing where to go exactly all the time was due to John Romita Jr. still being very new to comic books, so he wasn't able to help feed Claremont ideas as much as a Byrne or a Cockrum.

The great parts of this era were the way that Claremont turned the old X-Men stories on their heads. The X-Men were no longer around simply to fight "evil mutants". In this era, the real villains were mutants who had "sold out" to the system. The Hellfire Club were wealthy and insulated, willing to build mutant-killing robots for the government, if it meant more profits. The Brotherhood morphed in to Freedom Force, who were willing to work for the government.

By the end of this period though, there was a problem, as the Hellfire Club were written out of the story, and even with Freedom Force, it was hinted that Mystique was really a double-agent. Plus, characters like Juggernaut became simply a thug, as Juggernaut was never characterized as a mutant-hating bigot, so Claremont wasn't interested in that sort of villain. The X-Men hardly any true enemies they could fight like typical superheroes left by the time Romita was gone. Claremont needed to restock the X-Men supervillain roster.

Overall, I'd say the changes during this period were for the better.

So, we're entering my favourite period of X-Men history now. Magneto replaces Professor X. The outback era is soon to come.

At his best, Claremont was crafting a book that could have been the equal of Dark Knight Returns or Watchmen, a dismal portrait of a society in decline. At his worst, Claremont was writing a typical superhero book. Unfortunately, Claremont was never able to overcome these conflicting visions.

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Regardless of why Lee wanted to use a team of mutant superheroes...

Wasn't it mostly because he couldn't be bothered thinking up a different origin story for each character and the main villain of issue#1?

(Whatever can be said against the Lee/Kirby X-Men, Magneto is one of the very best Marvel bad guys.)

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Yeah, that was Lee's rationale for making them mutants. I think it worked well within the first story anyway.


I rank Magneto as Marvel's greatest villain, but that's mainly from Claremont. Magneto was pretty much just a raving loony until in to the Claremont run. Claremont decided to make Magneto a Holocaust survivor. Well, then, Claremont didn't really see Magneto as a villain anymore as his run went on, as Magneto replaced Professor X. Magneto has rarely been used very well after Claremont either though, as most writers just went with the crazy supervillain mutant supremacist, but now he felt justified because of his background. Claremont added a nobility to Magneto even while still a villain, so he had more nuance.

Probably the greatest shame in X-Men history was Claremont's final original story, in X-Men #1-3, where editorial wanted Claremont to place Magneto back as the main villain before he left the title. Claremont intended for Magneto to be an anti-hero had he not left X-Men. You could tell it made Claremont sad to wipe away all his work and write a story where Magneto returns to being a villain. The next time we see Magneto after Claremont is when he's a raving loony ripping the adamantium from Wolverine and threatening to destroy the Earth...


The current Magneto on-going series by Cullen Bunn is pretty damn good though. It's almost over now. It cast Magento pretty much as the Punisher, but concerned with minority rights.

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You know the original mr sinister as a changeling plotline he was going to do? that would have been crazy. there was an issue of classic x men w cyclops and him at some orphanage that was creepy as hell.

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well he appears as an orphan but I think he was going to be some weird changeling creature that was really like 70 years old in the body of a kid


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Sinister really was the boy in the orphanage, according to Claremont's original plots, sort of an "eternal child". Sinister was a form he took, as was Gambit, which is why both characters were so cheesy and kewl when they were introduced. They were projections from a disturbed child's mind.

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