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Batman Reloaded

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Heh, this is funny because it's the exact opposite for me. I didn't like the first issue and didn't see why everyone was raving, but the issues afterwards won me over and I liked the story in all.

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Dini's Detective#828 is another solid Batman issue that restores my faith in single enclosed issues.

It always good to see the Zorro/Batman connection and it appears that Detective Riddler is Dini's overiding plot.

I still think it could do with better artwork, but still good stuff and a great cover too.

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(SPOILERS: Detective Comics 828)

 

Are you a Scooby-Doo fan, 'Rohne? I'm not, so I want my money back. :tongue:

 

Even though this is a high profile DC title, the penciller they've hired is still inept at drawing the human face; his facial expressions are goofy, which distracts from the rest of the otherwise competent work. (The worst instance, I think, is page 9 panel 6 — is that woman lobotomised?) The inker isn't helping any more than he has to.

 

The story's risible. On page 4 we have Bruce Wayne driving off sharks by kicking and punching them. Underwater. I haven't read the script, so maybe the shark-beating crap was down to the penciller; but I prefer to blame the writer, given the shite nature of the plot. Riddler wanted to investigate Kiribati war artefacts, so he slipped into the museum in the middle of the night? The killer was expecting that, and waited for him in the museum? In Kiribati costume? Fuck off, Mr Dini. The killer attacks Batman using a Kiribati martial art, so Batman responds using the same martial art even though "it's not my fighting style of choice"? Fuck clean off. In any case, it's obvious who the baddie is from the heavyhanded dialogue of page 8, panel 2, so there's no need to read the whole thing.

 

Top it off with the lump of crude exposition and the pat ending, and you have a forgettable comic that Dini apparently phoned in.

 

Detective_828_21.jpg

 

No offence, 'Rohne: I still love ya.

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On page 4 we have Bruce Wayne driving off sharks by kicking and punching them. Underwater. I haven't read the script, so maybe the shark-beating crap was down to the penciller; but I prefer to blame the writer, given the shite nature of the plot.

Maybe it was an homage to this classic moment from the 60s tv show?

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The story's risible. On page 4 we have Bruce Wayne driving off sharks by kicking and punching them. Underwater. I haven't read the script, so maybe the shark-beating crap was down to the penciller; but I prefer to blame the writer, given the shite nature of the plot.

 

I honestly have no idea what more you could possibly want from a Batman comic. Is there no joy in your soul? That was awesome.

 

As to this lot:

 

Riddler wanted to investigate Kiribati war artefacts, so he slipped into the museum in the middle of the night? The killer was expecting that, and waited for him in the museum? In Kiribati costume? Fuck off, Mr Dini. The killer attacks Batman using a Kiribati martial art, so Batman responds using the same martial art even though "it's not my fighting style of choice"? Fuck clean off.

 

I can only assume that you've never actually read a Batman comic before, since that's exactly the sort of thing which the character has always been about (apart from a brief, aberrant period over the past 5-10 years during which he's been more about sitting in darkened rooms crying about the drab, joyless misery his life has become - a period which I, for one, am glad is over).

 

Seriously, you didn't like the fact that the story opens with Batman kicking a shark in the face? 'Cos I'm pretty certain that sort of thing is exactly what superhero comics are for.

 

 

I loved this issue. A joyous throwback to the very best aspects of the character's past, while still adding something new. Yeah, I wish the artist had a slightly prettier style, but at least his storytelling is clear and effective - I'll take that over flashy but vacuous splash-pages any day.

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It's a comic, it's not supposed to be real or taken too seriously. The kicking the shark in the face thing is actually a real way you can escape from being attacked. Sense their noses are their weak spots not to mention that part being a throw back to the anti-shark spray.

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I think he's pointing out the difficulty of kicking or punching underwater, since the friction caused by moving through the water slows your hands and feet down and makes it hard to inflict damage.

 

Mind you...

 

The killer attacks Batman using a Kiribati martial art, so Batman responds using the same martial art even though "it's not my fighting style of choice"? Fuck clean off.

 

Why? It's a big thing about Batman's character that he knows every fighting style ever. And maybe Kiribati was the best thing to ward off that type of attack?

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Firstly, I just noticed that I actually typed "Is there no joy in your soul?" last night. I can only blame lack of sleep, because that's exactly the sort of glib arseholishness which I hate. Sorry.

 

That said, I still think that Batman kicking a shark in the face is absolutely the sort of thing we should see more often. I don't think it had anything to do with the '60s TV show, either - if it's an homage to anything, it was to the legendary '70s Denny O'Neill/Neal Adams story The Joker's Five-Way Revenge (widely-acclaimed by all sorts of people, including me, as one of the best Batman stories ever) in which Batman fights a shark in a not-dissimilar manner to this. A variation on the scene in question was also used in the superlative B:TAS episode The Laughing Fish.

 

As to whether or not it's plausible - well, it's certainly not unduly implausible, in the context of a superhero comic. The main obstacle presented to an underwater kick is the lack of speed - with a bit of skill, you could still get enough force behind a single well-aimed kick to have more than enough impact on the sensitive electro-sensory receptors in a shark's nose to dissuade all but the most determined of attacks. Of course the way it was done here was a little over-the-top, but it's a superhero comic. That's the way they roll.

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As to whether or not it's plausible - well, it's certainly not unduly implausible, in the context of a superhero comic. The main obstacle presented to an underwater kick is the lack of speed - with a bit of skill, you could still get enough force behind a single well-aimed kick to have more than enough impact on the sensitive electro-sensory receptors in a shark's nose to dissuade all but the most determined of attacks.

 

You say, with your in-depth knowledge of sharks and underwater fighting. :)

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I used to surf it's true...apparently.

I was always told quite unconvincingly to use the tip of my board.

 

Anyway back to the Australian. :happy:

I've had problems with Kramer's art before and have expressed as much thoughout this thread too.

 

The Riddler (Who is still a supervillian in terms of psyche and ego) goes investigating and wondering around a museum at night, which is exactly the sort of thing I would expect him to do.

The killer may not have been waiting for The Riddler specifically, he may have been doing his usual afterhours shenanigans and become aware of the Riddler's presence.

Thus armouring up (And a disguise of sorts) would make sense.

 

The ego in Batman would have him fight the killer in the same martial arts style.

Dini does show this to be a mistake on Batman's part.

 

It was by no means a masterpiece Jason and I do desire more from the title, but this was still solid Batman.

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You say, with your in-depth knowledge of sharks and underwater fighting. :)

 

You have no idea. Seriously, you know how movie-kids are with dinosaurs? Think the younger kid in Jurassic Park.

 

That was me, with sharks. I've got at least a dozen text/reference books on the subject lying around my bookshelves at home (when I reached 13, my parents let me get the big hardback one which I'd been eyeing up for ages - the one with full-colour photographs of shark attack victims in the glossy mid-section. It was AWESOME). I've forgotten most of it, but I could still give you chapter and verse on exactly why hitting a shark in the nose is so effective, and why it doesn't actually have to be an especially hard impact to work.

 

I won't, though, 'cos that'd be a bit excessive for a discussion about a 3-page scene in a Batman comic. :)

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I can only assume that you've never actually read a Batman comic before, since that's exactly the sort of thing which the character has always been about ...

Exactly. It's 2007 and I thought we might have moved forwards by now, but nope, they're still selling us the stuff that made "comic book writing" synonymous with "bad". Like I said, Tec 828 reads like a Scooby-Doo cartoon.

 

Seriously, you didn't like the fact that the story opens with Batman kicking a shark in the face? 'Cos I'm pretty certain that sort of thing is exactly what superhero comics are for.

Batman and most of his villains require suspension of disbelief, but I believe that suspension of disbelief shouldn't have to extend to plots, physics, or the way people behave.

 

That was me, with sharks. I've got at least a dozen text/reference books on the subject lying around my bookshelves at home (when I reached 13, my parents let me get the big hardback one which I'd been eyeing up for ages - the one with full-colour photographs of shark attack victims in the glossy mid-section. It was AWESOME). I've forgotten most of it, but I could still give you chapter and verse on exactly why hitting a shark in the nose is so effective, and why it doesn't actually have to be an especially hard impact to work.

What a shame none of your books covered shark anatomy. Batman punches one shark on the gill cover, and kicks the other between the dorsal fin and the base of the skull. :tongue:

 

What happens when you kick out underwater? In the southern hemisphere we call that "swimming", a martial art technique that causes you to move away from the target. Hmm... perhaps it works differently in the northern hemisphere. :biggrin:

 

 

The killer may not have been waiting for The Riddler specifically, he may have been doing his usual afterhours shenanigans and become aware of the Riddler's presence.

Thus armouring up (And a disguise of sorts) would make sense.

 

The ego in Batman would have him fight the killer in the same martial arts style.

Dini does show this to be a mistake on Batman's part.

Well said — I'll buy all of that.

 

 

It's a comic, it's not supposed to be real or taken too seriously.

I see what you mean; but taking that to its extreme, we shouldn't criticise any aspect of comics, because that would be taking them too seriously.

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No James. The Riddler is perfectly fine. He helped Batman solve the case.

 

Batman #663-Morrison's return. The Joker issue.

Wow! That is not what I expected!

Ignoring the art....which at times I actually like....although overall, it's not good, but there's not much of it in the first place, so that's good....This was just so unexpected, I'm not sure what to write. What a nice surprise.

It's a prose short story.

Morrison's prose style has evolved leaps and bounds from the prose stories he was writing that were collected in that Lovely Biscuits (although I haven't read all the stories from that collection, either).

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Heh, its been three days and I still havent finished reading the new Morrison issue. I just cant seem to ever finish it full on due to time and today my friends were all being distracting playing their video games. So Day 4 in reading this one issue.

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That's VALUE for your money.

 

In some sense, I was a bit saddened that Morrison didn't use this opportunity to place in more stream-of-consciousness and mysticism, as prose stories like that are a good place to throw those types of references. I realize that wasn't the sort of story Morrison was telling here and that he did do this very thing to a brief extent....overall, it's a small complaint, as Morrison did something different with the book, which is what we all expected and wanted from Morrison on Batman in the first place.

Hopefully, Morrison will continue to experiment with Batman from now on and see how far he can take his stories to the limits. It's be a nice counter-point to the straight, classic approach that Dini is bringing to Detective.

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I dont know Christian I found it too flowery and quite frankly an arse to read.

There are many great lines, but mostly the writing needed to be soft peddled.

This would have made a great delano style comic.

 

For my tastes Morrison's Joker was just plain nasty rather than inspired.

Dini's latest Joker did the job far better.

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I find Dini's Joker story to be a stronger Joker story also. This story was just more experimental.

 

And yes, a valid complaint is that Morrison's prose is far too purple and flowery....but you know how much I love Delano!

And, it is a huge advance for Morrison in the prose department. He used to be just plain awful writing prose. The ideas were there, but the technique to deliver the idea was completely missing.

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I'm not sure it was much of an experiment - there've been plenty of prose stories with (largely) non-sequential illustration before now, even in the context of the comics industry, and the content of this one wasn't especially revolutionary. It was an unusual book, sure, but not especially innovative.

 

The basic story wasn't bad, though. I think I'd have liked it a lot more if it had actually been a comic.

 

And, of course, if the art hadn't resembled screen-caps from an ugly computer game quite so closely. That would have helped.

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I'm not sure it was much of an experiment - there've been plenty of prose stories with (largely) non-sequential illustration before now, even in the context of the comics industry, and the content of this one wasn't especially revolutionary. It was an unusual book, sure, but not especially innovative.

 

The basic story wasn't bad, though. I think I'd have liked it a lot more if it had actually been a comic.

 

And, of course, if the art hadn't resembled screen-caps from an ugly computer game quite so closely. That would have helped.

Agreed.

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You know what it's like when someone's doing something inadvertently (or possibly deliberately, but in an odd, off-hand way) hilarious - say, an impression, or a weird little dance, or just telling a story in a particularly ridiculous way? And then they notice that people are laughing, and start playing up to the crowd, and the routine suddenly just stops being funny?

 

Well, if you don't, just read All-Star Batman & Robin #5 and you'll understand exactly what I mean.

 

I'll reserve judgement on Morrison's Batman #665 for a day or two, since I read it immediately after All-Star Parody Of A Self-Parody, and am therefore unable to think of it as anything but a masterpiece, which I'm pretty sure it wasn't. The last two issues do seem to be pulling the various threads from Morrison's thus-far disappointing run into something resembling an entertaining and mildly interesting comic series, though, which is at least vaguely promising.

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You know what it's like when someone's doing something inadvertently (or possibly deliberately, but in an odd, off-hand way) hilarious - say, an impression, or a weird little dance, or just telling a story in a particularly ridiculous way? And then they notice that people are laughing, and start playing up to the crowd, and the routine suddenly just stops being funny?

 

Well, if you don't, just read All-Star Batman & Robin #5 and you'll understand exactly what I mean.

Absolutley.

Just when I thought that perhaps Bats over agression would be later tempered by Robin (Presumably the runs stylistic point-I hope) we get the equally piss poor and exaggerated takes on Wonder "Sperm Bank" Woman, Rape Victims ala Miller and finally The Dark Butler Returns :ohmy: .

 

Delivering Miller's poetry to friends in the student Shakespeare mould, made this issue a real joy!

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