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The tube?

 

Gail's known for her sense of humour so I wouldn't take the Business Thing too seriously, her second issue of Gen 13 there last week was disturbingly unsettling.

 

Wasn't the original Gen13 a light-hearted comedy?

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More a sort of light-hearted bit of slightly sleazy T&A exploitation (implausibly-stacked teens in skimpy costumes having exciting adventures). The new version has taken some of those tropes and used them to create something rather different, and a lot darker. I don't know if I like it yet, but it's certainly...different.

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Sorry it's been a while. Catching up...

 

Andy, which 5 famous people, dead or alive do you think your vision of Constantine would invite to dinner (or a pint down the local)?

Alan Moore, Bill Hicks, Rasputin, Doctor John Dee... and David Blaine, but only so they could all piss in his beer.

 

Andy, have you seen Constantine (the flick) ?

‘Fraid so. I’d agree with the general consensus that the director did the best he could with a lacklustre script and some wooden casting.

 

I’m not going to whine about it not being the same as comic because it wasn’t supposed to be the same as the comic. It was supposed to be a film, y’know? The question is, does it stand up on its own merits? And the answer is, sadly, not really.

 

Controversially, I don’t have a huge problem with the principle of making JC an American. A character is a character. What difference does it make where, to paraphrase Bill Hicks, his parents fucked?

 

But as with so many Hollywood movies of recent years, the plot just didn’t seem to make much sense. Why the hell didn’t Gabriel just kill JC? She kills plenty of other people - why not him?

 

Obviously, JC wading in with a dragonfire shotgun was just a tragic fucking embarrassment. Whoever insisted on putting that in the movie should have been stripped naked and thrown down a canvas tube lined with fish-hooks.

 

On the other hand, I loved some of the odd little details - like entering Hell by sitting with your feet in water while you stare into a cat’s eye. That’s a lot more original than the usual hackneyed pentagram-and-candles bullshit.

 

And I think they deserve credit for making JC such an unlikeable, cynical bastard. That's a brave choice for a big-budget Hollywood star vehicle.

 

So yeah, it could have been a great little movie, but it ended up being... not.

 

Overall, I don’t HATE it. I just don’t like it much.

 

If someone gave John a psychic enema, what would be the first thing that came out?

Psychic sweetcorn.

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I’m not going to whine about it not being the same as comic because it wasn’t supposed to be the same as the comic. It was supposed to be a film, y’know? The question is, does it stand up on its own merits? And the answer is, sadly, not really.

 

...

 

Overall, I don’t HATE it. I just don’t like it much.

 

You tell 'em Mr. Diggle!!

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On the other hand, despite agreeing with most of what Andy says, I have reserved a cupful of hatred for the absence of what it could have been and the arrogance of the "Hellblazer Nerds Hate Us Because He's Keanu" comments.

 

Overall, I don’t like it. I just don’t HATE it much.

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Obviously, JC wading in with a dragonfire shotgun was just a tragic fucking embarrassment. Whoever insisted on putting that in the movie should have been stripped naked and thrown down a canvas tube lined with fish-hooks.

On the other hand, I loved some of the odd little details - like entering Hell by sitting with your feet in water while you stare into a cat’s eye. That’s a lot more original than the usual hackneyed pentagram-and-candles bullshit.

And I think they deserve credit for making JC such an unlikeable, cynical bastard. That's a brave choice for a big-budget Hollywood star vehicle.

So yeah, it could have been a great little movie, but it ended up being... not.

Overall, I don’t HATE it. I just don’t like it much.

 

 

Basically, you just nailed my opinion of the film. There were so many things they COULD have gotten wrong, that I'm amazed they got some right -- like, as you say, the water-and-cat gag, which brought a grin to my face. I also liked that he was an unlikeable bastard -- I thought sure they would make him nicer. Still, I'm just amazed they got so much wrong when there were so many things they could have gotten right. The film, for me, was a misshapen ball of confusion that couldn't decide if it was based on the comic or not. And the end result was a sloppy mess that had some nice moments but was, otherwise, a big let-down.

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I liked the film on its own merit (Especially the look and feel, the unique ideas, characters, such things) but i agree that the script was mediocre at best. Sad.

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I just saw it for the first time a few hours ago. It wasn't very good.

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I just saw it for the first time a few hours ago. It wasn't very good.

Really? You just saw it? :blink:

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just on the subject of the movie I know alot of people didnt like it but I thought it wasnt to bad, I say that as a movie not in any relation to the comics, dont get me started on there "vison" of constantine.

 

I have an argument with a guy at work almost everyday, about comic movies i.e he hates the fact that spider-man doesnt have web shooters and the fact that prof x died and magneto lost his powers in x-men 3, all i keep shouting back it its not Earth 616 (if you dont know earth 616 is the main marvel earth and various spin offs happen on differnt earths not to disrupt the time line) so I see the movie as a what if.. version (I can see that being turned into "What if hellblazer was shit) of the vertigo universe.

 

the movie had some nice points like his tattoos, the idea was right but were used differntly as his arm ones are the mark of the red king that is used by alcamists and is linked to sulpher, as in the film the coming of deamons is marked by the smell of sulpher and his pack tattoo is all about the zodiac and the universe. I did alot of research in to that and I know some people in glastonbury through my brother that know alot about it as I've had the same design altered for me and tattooed on my back (there is a pic of it floating around the forum). The whole mammon thing is mentioned in the bible and hells bible and describe pritty much as they used it in the film.

 

Uniteresting film fact, the spear of destiny is the same one that is in the hellboy film and can be seen whem myers first enters the B.P.R.D

 

As I said nice points in the film just badly writen and directed

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I think the difference is that Spider-Man and the X-Men movies are still fun in their own right, whereas Constantine was a bit tits. And organic webshooters isn't really an important change to the character, unlike the Constanteen movie where they changed pretty much everything about him and the universe he lives in.

 

The other thing that bugs me is that Spider-Man, and to a lesser extent The X-Men, are both big-name comics with existing media adaptations (the really good X-Men cartoons, the old Spider-Man 'toons and TV series) so had Raimi and Singer fucked things up, chances are there would have been a reboot of the movie franchise five or ten years down the line anyway. Hellblazer, meanwhile, is such an obscure comic that it was a miracle it was ever optioned at all, much less pushed all the way through the production process. So this is as close as we'll ever get to seeing John Constantine on the big screen. And I think that's a massive shame.

 

 

*Unlike Andy, I'm not impressed with how unpleasant they made him - Constantine's never been wholly nasty. It's just Hollywood picking the single most obvious character trait and running with it.

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Vertigo On the Ledge: with Andy Diggle

February 7, 2007

 

"I'm a nasty piece of work," he once said. "Ask anybody."

 

And over the years, John Constantine has proven as good as his word. But as with so much else when it comes to everyone's favorite chain-smoking street magus, there's more to it than that. A lot more.

 

The heart of HELLBLAZER has always been supernatural horror with a social conscience — and that's what Leo Manco and myself will be serving up, starting next month.

 

What's that, you say? Conscience? You thought Constantine was just an amoral bastard? All right, fair enough, so maybe he's left a trail of dead friends in his wake that would put the Borgias to shame. But it was always for the greater good, wasn't it? Underneath the callous exterior, the calculated irony and the f**k-you attitude, doesn't Constantine just want to make the world a better place?

 

Because, let's face it, it's pretty much f**ked the way it is.

 

They say that inside every cynic is a disappointed idealist. Constantine doesn't believe in self-appointed higher authorities; he believes in people.

 

Small, weak, flawed, struggling people.

 

But the problem with being a humanist is… well, humans. We keep letting the side down, don't we? Which probably goes some way toward explaining why the world is in the state it's in. And that, ultimately, is what drives him.

 

He's a fixer.

 

Maybe it was sex and drugs and rock 'n' roll that first brought Constantine to magic, but that wasn't what kept him there. He isn't addicted to magic, exactly he's addicted to the rush. He's an adrenaline junkie, incapable of leaving any stone unturned without flipping it over to see what crawls out from underneath. An inveterate meddler with an overwhelming compulsion to try to fix whatever nasty sh*t he uncovers as he noses around in the supernatural undertow of modern Britain…

 

...and magic just happens to be the quickest and easiest fix.

 

Of course, it's also the most dangerous. But when it all goes pear-shaped and his carefully laid plans come back to bite him on the arse, well, that's a rush too, ennit?

 

And like I said, it's all for the greater good.

 

At least, that's what he keeps telling himself.

 

Andy Diggle

 

HELLBLAZER #230 is in stores on March 21.

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Weird seeing the bad language asterixed out given that the 'On The Ledge' stuff only appears in Vertigo comics.

 

As for the content, whilst I can't argue with it, it does come off as a bit by-the-numbers.

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Well, it is an On the Ledge column. Most creators don't put their best work out there for those little essays.

 

This part peaked my interest, "supernatural horror with a social conscience". If this is what Diggle brings to Hellblazer, I can't see his run letting most of us down, as this is what drew most of us to Hellblazer in the first place, and something that's been (for the most part) lacking from the book for years now.

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Hi Andy

 

I propose that somewhere in your run, you make a panel or reference to all the STH posters that say nice things about you in our monthly Hellblazer reviews. I missed out on Tim's gorgeous graffiti-wall cover and this would make my tiny existence worth living.

 

I'll make a sigil and masturbate until you do so.

 

 

Now that my Mob-centric desires are out there, on to John. My favorite Constantine moments, or any comic for that matter, occur when a writer nails a not-so-obvious yet undeniably accurate human trait. I was buying Hellblazer from #1 through Ennis run, then quit comics for years. Before getting the comic monkey off my back, I remember reading and then re-reading Ennis brithday party issue. Peeing on the Phantom Stranger's shoes is great, and I didn't smoke pot back then yet still loved the Swamp Thing contribution, but seeing John face his age in a one shot yarn that rang so true, it really stuck with me for a long time. A similair Ennis work would be the freindship of Cassiday and Jesse in Preacher. When they were in New Orleans I began to pay as much attention to their dynamic as I did to the plot. I didn't understand why at the time, but the relationship I was in and the friends I had at the time seemed very familair as I read and with hindsight, I can now see why. That's all you need to know, if this is making any sense at all.

 

In short, I hope you can give me one of those moments of actuality. I'm pushing 40 now and unless you are older than you sound, you probably won't be hitting any truths about aging properly. I'm talking the not-so-obvious truths here, remember. I'd like to see one axiom put well onto the page and it would put the action/adventure haters in their place.

 

I liked your Losers book, you never got my cash but a friend bought the series in the bargain bin and I found the loaners to be tons of fun.

 

Your wikipedia entry needs editing. Shitty grammar, repetitive sentences, and no meat. Want to write something and we can get it in there for you? Anyone here an editor that can help a brother out? Also, it says on there you are working with Guy Ritchie. Have you met Madonna yet? I bet you'll get some decent industry contacts for scriptwriting out of that deal, eh? Best of luck, and don't fuck up Hellblazer.

 

PS Post your address and we can send you some decent comic books. Free stuff is free stuff, right? Fuck off, STHers, it'll be a PO Box. Diggle's no fool!

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I'll make a sigil and masturbate until you do so.

Uh... let me see if I understand this... if Andy gets your name into a panel of the upcoming Hellblazer, you will stop masturbating? For how long?

 

And what if Leo Manco just does a muddy photocopy of part of the cover of #114, and pastes that into the panel — will that count?

 

I can edit a Wikipedia page; but then, so can anyone.

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I dont have any questions I just want you to know I'm going to my comic shop this weekend and getting HB back on the list. My sabbatical has ended. I will give you your day in court Mr. Diggle. :smile:

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As for the content, whilst I can't argue with it, it does come off as a bit by-the-numbers.

 

I like the implication - assuming that it's not just me reading too much into it - that Constantine's going to be stepping up and trying to do something about British society. "Fixing" what the great unwashed have broken. If Diggle takes this route, it'll be something we haven't really seen in Hellblazer before.

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I'll make a sigil and masturbate until you do so.

Uh... let me see if I understand this... if Andy gets your name into a panel of the upcoming Hellblazer, you will stop masturbating? For how long?

 

And what if Leo Manco just does a muddy photocopy of part of the cover of #114, and pastes that into the panel — will that count?

 

I can edit a Wikipedia page; but then, so can anyone.

 

If leo manco does anything for me, I'd be pretty flattered.

 

I doubt I could stop with the wanking anyway, but you need some method to get that sigil into the ether, so it was more of a 'I will masturbate more than usual with my sigil and then go back to regular frequency, sans sigil, after I'm immortalized'.

 

Although now that you mention it, if Andy pulled through with a reference, it'd be worth a serious long-term go at abstinence from the sisters. I'd definitely give it some consideration.

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Why not send him or Manco a picture of yourself and see if you can get a cameo in an issue? Creators do that all the time for their fans.

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Guest spiderlegs
I thought the direction was shit. :)

 

Hear motherfucking hear! I thought it was like watching a turd dry.

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Although now that you mention it, if Andy pulled through with a reference, it'd be worth a serious long-term go at abstinence from the sisters.

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