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JohnMcMahon

Fuckbiscuitshitangels (Warren Ellis)

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24 issues! thats good news, but this is going to be in "Warren Ellis time". :glare:

Perhaps that's why I felt underwhelmed by #6, as i believed that it was the finale.

Issue 24 should be out around the time you retire. :biggrin:

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Hopefully the ending to Planetary (after the global flood of 2009) wont be anything like Desolation Jones' imputant stab.

Imputant = ?

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Guest spiderlegs

Yeah, Mr. Jones pretty much cemented himself as a hardcore motherfucker with #6. I mean, god DAYUMN!

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Hopefully the ending to Planetary (after the global flood of 2009) wont be anything like Desolation Jones' imputant stab.

Imputant = ?

I assumed that that issue wrapped up the whole mini series.

As such, I beleieved it to be a another poor Warren Ellis finishing.

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Yeah, but either way, "imputant" isn't actually a word, and I (along, I'd assume, with Josh) have no idea which real word you were aiming for. I'd hazard a guess at either "impotent" or "impudent", neither of which makes perfect sense in the context of your post, but both of which are better than the other alternatives I can think of.

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Okay. I've known this was coming for a few weeks, and Scott Dunbier and I have been trying to get everything in a row before saying anything. Mr Williams was apparently under no such constraint.

 

Really can't say anything right now. We're working on it.

 

Fuck. Batman.

 

:angry:

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Yeah, but either way, "imputant" isn't actually a word, and I (along, I'd assume, with Josh) have no idea which real word you were aiming for. I'd hazard a guess at either "impotent" or "impudent", neither of which makes perfect sense in the context of your post, but both of which are better than the other alternatives I can think of.

Whoops sorry there

I did indeed mean Impudent.

 

As a....I dont know a sarky or flippant answer to something. But done with boldness or extra chutzpah.

Which i believed #6 was.

A hasty and rushed ending for the six issue series.

Which is now the ongoing that isn't.

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Okay. I've known this was coming for a few weeks, and Scott Dunbier and I have been trying to get everything in a row before saying anything. Mr Williams was apparently under no such constraint.

 

Really can't say anything right now. We're working on it.

Well at the least I hope that they Volume One it, and get back to it, rather than swap artists.

 

I will really bite off my own nose to spite my face, when it comes to having the same artist on a run.

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Warren Ellis on Williams doing I will really bite off my own nose to spite my face, when it comes to having the same artist on a run.

You value Preacher over Sandman, then?

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Warren Ellis on Williams doing I will really bite off my own nose to spite my face, when it comes to having the same artist on a run.

You value Preacher over Sandman, then?

Come on!, that example was extreme, unfair and simply for the sake of it.

 

Gaiman vs Ennis isn't quite an even bout, and I'm no die hard Gaiman fan either.

Plus Sandman suited multiple artists as a lot of Sandman itself dealt with the many perceptions of the Dream King and his world.

That was Style suiting subject.

 

What I value about Preacher (and possibly the only thing), is the completist feel of it.

Having the same team all the way through, as a unified voice really does appeal to me.

 

I wouldn't want another artist on The Ultimates, Ex Machina or Planetary for example.

 

Ofcourse differant artists can offer differant things.

And i'm not going to throw my toys out of the cot because they change the artist.

 

What the artist does to the perception of the writing is unquantifiable.

I believe that that consistancy flavours the writing itself too.

 

Furthermore, a replacement artist is usually only there to allow the current artist to catch up.

Personally I would rather wait a month or two for that to happen.

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There's no denying that Sandman suffers from decidedly ropey art that does have a negative impact on the storytelling.

Yeah.

 

It's sort of sad because in comics you really can't really isolate the writer's work.

 

Would I have enjoyed some of the mid Carey Hellblazer issues more if Sean Phillips, Manco or JH Williams were drawing them instead of the tired Frusin?

 

Well...yes.

Inspite of the writing.

 

A better question would be would have been Sandman vs Sandman (but drawn exclusively by Jill Thompson of Micheal Zulu(Zulli?) or whoever).

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There's no denying that Sandman suffers from decidedly ropey art that does have a negative impact on the storytelling.

Yeah.

 

It's sort of sad because in comics you really can't really isolate the writer's work.

 

Would I have enjoyed some of the mid Carey Hellblazer issues more if Sean Phillips, Manco or JH Williams were drawing them instead of the tired Frusin?

 

Well...yes.

Inspite of the writing.

 

A better question would be would have been Sandman vs Sandman (but drawn exclusively by Jill Thompson of Micheal Zulu(Zulli?) or whoever).

No, that would be a far worse question because it would involve the discussion of comics that don't actually exist, and however big a shit I am, I'm better than that.

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No, that would be a far worse question because it would involve the discussion of comics that don't actually exist, and however big a shit I am, I'm better than that.

There's no need for that Dogpoet, I just thought you were playing one hell of a devils advocate, thats all.

Sorry if I implied otherwise.

Hypothetical comics or otherwise, I still think that refines the question some.

Preacher and Sandman are Apples and Oranges.

 

Ofcourse I would love to see an ongoing Desolation Jones (even if he is another of Warren Ellis' John Constantine manifestations).

But a very large part of that titles enjoyment rested in the hands of JH Williams.

I could wait for a slightly delayed series (which Shock Bloody Horror it was already) rather than a monthly Desolation Jones (A monthly Warren Ellis is an oxymoron yeah?) without Willaims.

 

I'm not saying if Willaims isn't going to draw it, dont do it at all.

No that's extreme.

Preferentially, I like the purity of that partnership.

 

It's irrelavant how big of a shit you are, I would just appreciate some feed back on my and The Boss' posts. :blush:

 

Now I'm off to Sainsburys! :unsure:

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It's very easy to seperate writing from art in a comic book.

The two compliment each other, not control each other.

 

I think that "Sandman" is a book that lends itself to using different artists for different story-arcs. The problem was that 7 times out of 10, "Sandman" picked the wrong artists.

 

I agree that it's nearly impossible to compare "Sandman" to "Preacher". You can say one is certainly better written than the other, but it's like saying, "Compare and contrast On the Waterfront with Star Wars". Both are them are incredibly popular movies and classics, but it's impossible to compare the two movies, other than to say, "Well, On the Waterfront is a better written story....".

It doesn't detract from the power of "Star Wars". It's just not comparing two movies in the same league.

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The latest issue of Fell was great. The character of Richard Fell is great, and Ben Templesmith's atmospheric art really helps with the dingy sense of the comic.

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On a first reading I really liked it too, and will probably like it even better on successive readings.

 

 

I talked to my comic store owner about people waiting for books when they become late (since he and I were talking about Ellis), and in his experience "people will wait" for a good book that doesn't come out when it's expected to. That surprised me based on the complaints I'd seen here about Iron Man, and said so. He said that not many people who patronized his store were on comic forums. Further, he believes that people who are on comic forums really aren't buying and reading comics, for all of their commentary about them, though I told him I didn't think that was the case here.

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HA! What are we doing with our comics?!

 

The problem with something like "Iron Man" is two-fold, when it comes to this Forum:

 

A.)It's a Marvel superhero book, which means that a percentage of our members are not going to read I.M. no matter who they stuck on the book. It's just not in the demographic of people who come to a Vertigo web-site, I don't believe.

 

B.)Warren Ellis is such a maddening writer, at times!

I did not think Iron Man was a quality book.

I await "Planetary" every new season. It's one of the best comics being published today and certainly amongst the top 3 comics of the new millenium.

"Iron Man" was tedious and lacklustre.

I would have patiently awaited Ellis' Iron Man, if it had been anywhere near the caliber of Planetary.

Looking at comments from other Forum members who dropped Iron Man long ago, they seemed to have the same feelings about the comic.

 

Even had Iron Man come out on a monthly basis, on time, I could really only see maybe 2 or 3 of the readers on this Forum who gave up on the book not dropping it, irregardless.

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I talked to my comic store owner about people waiting for books when they become late (since he and I were talking about Ellis), and in his experience "people will wait" for a good book that doesn't come out when it's expected to.

 

There's a lot of sales data to back that up, books like The Ultimates (for example) maintain their high orders despite eratic shipping. That's a high visibility comic mind - odds are there'll be a big pile of them sitting on your comic shop's shelves on new comics day when it actually ships. Comics like Fell don't get that much real estate shelf wise - meaning it's a lot easier to miss it when it does come out.

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I talked to my comic store owner about people waiting for books when they become late (since he and I were talking about Ellis), and in his experience "people will wait" for a good book that doesn't come out when it's expected to.

 

There's a lot of sales data to back that up, books like The Ultimates (for example) maintain their high orders despite eratic shipping. That's a high visibility comic mind - odds are there'll be a big pile of them sitting on your comic shop's shelves on new comics day when it actually ships. Comics like Fell don't get that much real estate shelf wise - meaning it's a lot easier to miss it when it does come out.

That makes sense. But Al was willing to bet a lot on Fell, because there were a lot of copies on the shelf when I went in at around 5:30pm yesterday (Wednesday). From what I gathered, he was confident he could sell them.

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I did not think Iron Man was a quality book.

I await "Planetary" every new season. It's one of the best comics being published today and certainly amongst the top 3 comics of the new millenium.

"Iron Man" was tedious and lacklustre.

I would have patiently awaited Ellis' Iron Man, if it had been anywhere near the caliber of Planetary.

Looking at comments from other Forum members who dropped Iron Man long ago, they seemed to have the same feelings about the comic.

 

Even had Iron Man come out on a monthly basis, on time, I could really only see maybe 2 or 3 of the readers on this Forum who gave up on the book not dropping it, irregardless.

I don't remember anyone saying anything like what you are about Ellis's Iron Man. What I remember multiple people saying was that they just didn't have the patience to wait for the monthly books (but that didn't mean they might not buy the trade).

 

I think I bought an issue of Planetary once. Overall it did almost nothing for me, and the attitude of the characters for some reason annoyed me -, maybe they seemed full of themselves (it was long enough ago that I don't really remember), so I didn't pursue it.

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Ellis characters often tend to be full of themselves, tends to be part of their charm - rightfully cock sods who're all too cool for school.

 

Latest issue of Fell we pretty good, there's a cracking little essay about Eisner in the back.

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I did not think Iron Man was a quality book.

I await "Planetary" every new season. It's one of the best comics being published today and certainly amongst the top 3 comics of the new millenium.

"Iron Man" was tedious and lacklustre.

I would have patiently awaited Ellis' Iron Man, if it had been anywhere near the caliber of Planetary.

Looking at comments from other Forum members who dropped Iron Man long ago, they seemed to have the same feelings about the comic.

 

Even had Iron Man come out on a monthly basis, on time, I could really only see maybe 2 or 3 of the readers on this Forum who gave up on the book not dropping it, irregardless.

I don't remember anyone saying anything like what you are about Ellis's Iron Man. What I remember multiple people saying was that they just didn't have the patience to wait for the monthly books (but that didn't mean they might not buy the trade).

 

I think I bought an issue of Planetary once. Overall it did almost nothing for me, and the attitude of the characters for some reason annoyed me -, maybe they seemed full of themselves (it was long enough ago that I don't really remember), so I didn't pursue it.

John's right. You could say the same about Ellis' version of Tony Stark too.

He started out as not the nicest guy in the world, the head of a multi-billion dollar corporation.

Just like that, the characters in Planetary grow on you too.

 

But, Planetary isn't about the characters! It's about the ideas and what the comic represents. The characters are just there as background, like Alan Moore's "Promethea" or Morrison's "Invisibles". The cast of Planetary are superhero archaeologists, exploring the strangeness of the planet. Just like in real life, it's the discoveries the archaelogists make that interest us, not the archaelogists themselves. It just so happens that the archaeologists in "Planetary" are more hands on, trying to protect the secrets of Earth.

 

It's also not a book that does well if you read just one issue. One issue is just a piece. It has a whole story, but all the stories are interlocked, so the amazement grows as you keep reading and the wonder continues to dawn on your conciousness. You need to read the whole series for everything to come to you, putting the puzzle pieces together.

 

Here is the proposal Warren Ellis wrote when he started "Planetary":

 

The Wildstorm Universe is just the obvious shiny surface of an Earth with superheroes. Go a little deeper, and you find strangeness and wonder on a planetary scale. There are people weirder and more marvellous than the WildC.A.T.S. or StormWatch, who simply prefer to operate outside the glare of world publicity. There are mad and beautiful things beneath the skin of the world we know, that you only see when you look at things on a planetary scale...

     ...and I’m not talking about X-Files stuff. Fun as it is, it’s done to death. I’m talking about a world in the superhero genre whose only known heroes, for the most part, are sourced in conspiracy theory and hallucinated alien histories. What if, underneath all that, there was an entire classic old superhero world? What if there were huge Jack Kirby temples underground built by old gods or new, and ghostly cowboys riding the highways of the West for justice, and superspies in natty suits and 360-degree-vision shades fighting cold wars in the dark, and strange laughing killers kept in old Lovecraftian asylums... what if you had a hundred years of superhero history just slowly leaking out into this young and modern superhero world of the Wildstorm Universe?

    What if you could take everything old and make it new again?

 

Planetary are three people who walk the world for strangeness and wonder. Sometimes, ordinary people uncover things that are best left covered. Sometimes, things best left covered emerge into ordinary life and do not have the world’s best interests at heart. These are the times when Planetary arrive, invited or not, and deal with the situation while learning from it, adding to their own knowledge of how this world really works. In every issue, they (and we) learn and see something new, something that evokes that old mythical Sense Of Wonder that so few people do any more...

 

Funded by an unknown figure, the near-mythical Fourth Man of Planetary (about whom conspiracy theories swirl in their hundreds -- he could be anyone from Bill Gates to Hitler), Planetary remain determinedly independent, to the extent where most governments and security agencies don’t even know they exist. They’re explorers, charting the unseen borders of a fantastic world.

 

PLANETARY is intended to be a break from the doom and gloom of STORMWATCH. Though PLANETARY will doubtless have its grim moments, and will certainly often have an atmosphere of mystery, the series will be as close to fun as I can get. It’s about, as Alan Moore put it, "mad and beautiful ideas"; the sense of wonder, the feeling of marvellous secret things just beyond our field of vision, and the revelations and splendours and dangers and bastards tied up in it all...

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I didn't like Planetary when I first read it either. Actually, I think I had to read at least halfway through the second trade before "getting". I love it now.

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