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JohnMcMahon

Fuckbiscuitshitangels (Warren Ellis)

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Eh, I didn't like to for the same reasons as you Mark, and I've read nearly all of Iron Man's other stories.

Maybe I was approaching it expecting what you were expecting though, instead of what Josh expected.

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Except Tony actually, you know, runs a corporation, unlike Bruce Wayne....

I've been a big fan of Tony Stark over the years, although a lot of time his characterization does come to "I'm a multi-billionaire head of a multi-national corporation with a heart of gold!".

He was originally created as a pro-Capitalism propaganda character in the Cold War.

Are there any Marvel characters of his vintage who weren't besides the occasional evil commie villian?

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Are there any Marvel characters of his vintage who weren't

 

Most of the Sixties Marvel characters were used in that role every now and again, but it'd be a heck of a stretch to say that they were created as such.

 

Iron Man, though, seems to have that aspect as a significant part of his origin story, so I can definitely see what Christian's getting at.

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Okay, not all of them were, but I get the same sort of sentiment from the early Hulk and Fantastic Four stories, and they both have a commie smashing element to their origin stories as well.

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Given his previous comments about the super-hero genre it is in some ways surprising that Warren Ellis has chosen to pick up an ongoing comic book in the main Marvel universe.

 

 

Heh. Surprising to anyone who's paid absolutely no attention whatsoever to Ellis' career over the last 5 years or more, perhaps.

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I remember that feeling from reading the first issue of Alan Moore’s Swamp Thing

 

Oh right. man with 8 year US comic history who has done loads of similar stuff

versus

First US publication of someone (who later became known for this sort of thing)

 

Me smell hyperbowl !

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You could make a case for Hulk, Dog Poet. I wouldn't say that about F.F. although they did fight evil Commies every so often.

 

Getting back to Ellis:

Ellis has honed his craft since working on Thor? I thought Ellis just stopped caring 75% of the time after he worked on Thor.

That is all so laughable, but I'm interested in his take on Thunderbolts. I'm going to be buying his first issue and I'm hoping it'll be good.

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Even given his total climb down on superheroes over the last few years, it's still hard to believe that Warren Ellis will be writing the new, improved self-harm version of Speedball.

 

I used to really enjoy Ellis' use of language in his vitriolic rants against the US comic industry - he'd have gotten a funny angry paragraph or two about stuff like the above but now.....

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You could make a case for Hulk, Dog Poet. I wouldn't say that about F.F. although they did fight evil Commies every so often.

I was more thinking about why they took a rocket with no shielding into orbit in the first place, to be honest. Something to do with beating the reds into space, was it not?

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Ellis wrote Thor? Was it any good?

 

Not really, no.

 

It's enjoyable in the sense that it's almost a template for future Ellis works, featuring as it does a smoking, boozing Brit who wanders around snarling and grumping at the fact he's in a US superhero comic. Thor shags...um...the Enchantress (?) in it.

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Except for the ridiculous publishing schedule, I remember being very jazzed about each issue of that Ellis' Iron Man run. Maybe I was not as familiar with Ellis, but to see an old favorite done by a writer I liked was great. The chat with the old hippy, the Mike Moore style interview was interesting, and the tech talk was right up my alley.

 

I haven't read Iron Man since the eighties when Bob Layton was doing the art chores. That alcohol issue used to be a hot item back in the day. I missed the whole armor wars storyline because I wasn't buying comics in that period.

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Shit, John! I just found out about Penance from the X-Axis. I thought it was that old villain from Generation X (also called Penance).

 

Dog, yeah, the origin of the FF was pure Cold War. It was a book of its time though.

 

Lou, I really enjoyed the Thor story-arc by Ellis. It was only 4-issues. It was called "The World Engine".

Actually, I was wrong when I spoke about it before. It turns out it was Traded. I just checked. It's Traded as "Thor Visionaries:Mike Deodato".

Yeah, it was the Enchantress that Thor shagged.

I think you'd really like it Lou.

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Thunderbolts #110-Overall, I enjoyed it. It's a good read, but nothing wholly original or groundbreaking. No action, but it's the first part of a new direction for the book. Some good character scenes with Bullseye and Moonstone. We really only got introduced to those two characters and the director of the Thunderbolts. Some heavy handed Civil War tie-ins, but with Ellis dealing with Marvel Civil War, how could you expect anything else?

The one stand-out scene is a commercial for Thunderbolts action figures.

Although, Jack Flag's wife got really damn annoying after awhile. Does she do anything except cry and worry?

 

NextWave #10-Wow! That was the best comic I've read by Warren Ellis since about issue #20 of Planetary. The scenes in "Forbush vision" were amazing. I just absolutely adore that comic. Good stuff! Too bad the rest of NextWave wasn't that visionary.

I wanted to pick up #11 also, but guess what? You know how it has the Civil War cover, only saying "Not a CIVIL WAR tie-in"? Well, apparently, everyone took it that NextWave #11 WAS a Civil War cross-over story and its sold out everywhere! HA! I need #9 now too, as the story continued from there, as I have no idea what was going on at the beginning or end of the issue.

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:ohmy:

Maybe if Ellis had thought to do that cover three or four months earlier they wouldn't be cancelling the comic...

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I still have a couple of outstanding

commissions to fulfil, and I'm now

convinced that one of them is

going to be about an English bloke

who smokes cigarettes, drinks and

brown-trousers the naughty.

Because it's been a while since I did

one of them, and it's in my blood

and in the grand tradition of British

genre fiction.

 

 

From a Bad Signal e-mail, earlier today.

 

"It's been a while since I did one of them". Seriously, he says that.

 

 

He's got to be taking the piss, right?

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OK! Yeah! I did notice that when I was reading Thunderbolts. That made me laugh out loud. Besides that annyoing tic, Thunderbolts was one of those rare latter-day Ellis comic that didn't make me shake my head at the blatant Ellisisms.

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I still have a couple of outstanding

commissions to fulfil, and I'm now

convinced that one of them is

going to be about an English bloke

who smokes cigarettes, drinks and

brown-trousers the naughty.

Because it's been a while since I did

one of them, and it's in my blood

and in the grand tradition of British

genre fiction.

 

DesolationJonesCv1.jpg

 

"Hi, my name's Desolation Jones, you may remember me from such comics as Desolation Jones"

 

 

I HAVE UR SPIKY EMO SUPERD00D RITE HERE

 

Or something.

No. That's it exactly. You have the 'spiky emo superdood' and that's what you do for a living now.

 

So, um, Whazza back on the oul' HB? I could dig fields of that!

I'd rather have Mark Waid.

 

Thunderbolts was one of those rare latter-day Ellis comic that didn't make me shake my head at the blatant Ellisisms.

 

Interesting way of putting it that, read some negative posts on it elsewhere saying that it came off as a pretty generic superhero comic as you couldn't even spot Ellis' voice in it.

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The funniest bit about the Englishman remarks - and the bit that Mark cut off the bottom - is the bit where Ellis says "I haven't done one of those since Hellblazer".

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I was going to mention Strange Killings, but then I remembered that he doesn't actually write them - he just lets Avatar publish them with his name listed as writer.

 

I've got a whole jilted-lover-stalker-thing going on with Ellis.

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Interesting way of putting it that, read some negative posts on it elsewhere saying that it came off as a pretty generic superhero comic as you couldn't even spot Ellis' voice in it.

 

I downloaded it out of morbid curiosity, and really didn't think it was very good. There were moments where Ellis' voice seemed to be trying to break out from under the smothering weight of editorial mandate, but not in a particularly interesting way (all superheroes are shit, apparently). The way the whole Thunderbolts concept was played as a parody of Thunderbirds was mildly amusing, but my overall impression was coloured by Ellis' clear contempt for the material he's working with. Admittedly, it's a contempt I share (I haven't read anything Civil War-related which has impressed me at all), but I'm not the one who's being paid to write about it. If he can't at least pretend convincingly that he's taking this shit seriously (or, as in the case of Nextwave, make his amusement/lack of seriousness into a selling-point), I don't think it's too unreasonable to suggest that he shouldn't have taken on the damn assignment in the first place. As it stands, the book felt too dumb to be taken seriously, but not dumb or entertaining enough to be particularly amusing. Perhaps it'll get better, but I have my doubts - it's far from the worst I've seen of Ellis' "half-decade of whoredom, and counting" period, but that's hardly a glowing recommendation.

 

Judging by the tone of his Bad Signal e-mails of late, and some of the assignments he's been taking on, I still reckon Ellis is spiralling towards John Byrne levels of bitter-creator-who-really-hates-most-of-his-fanbase-ness. He's not reached anything like that extreme yet, but all it'll take is a few of his pet projects getting cancelled, or not selling, and he'll get there. Mark my words.

 

Still, Desolation Jones was OK, for a book about a smoking, drinking, sweary bastard of an Englishman. I wouldn't particularly want him back on Hellblazer, though, even if it could be guaranteed that we'd be getting Good Warren - but then, I wouldn't want to see any previous creators, good or bad, return to the title for more than a one- or two-issue guest spot. They all had their time in the sun, and I'd rather see the book moving forwards, not backwards.

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