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JohnMcMahon

Captain America Is A Fucking Pussy

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And why is Marvel acting like this is an event with cosmic repercussions, like DC's Crisis? With DC, it makes sense that the entire universe changes because of the mega-event. Marvel's Civil War is not a cosmic event. It just boggles the mind.

I've scoffed at Marvel's pronouncements about Civil War from the beginning, as their ideas about the concept never held up to reality.

I've been a big fan of Marvel. I've stayed a supporter of them. I will continue to buy their books that are good. But, I'm pissed off with the company now. Their actions in the past year just screams egotistical and money-grubbing. They seem to have no considerations for quality any more (publishing two of the worst written comics I've seen in a while in one week a few weeks back), but yet in their interviews, they act like these stupid-cross-overs are going to be judged on a level near to Nabokov in a few years. Marvel needs a real make-over and soon. Get rid of Joe Quesada.

At least DC isn't being utterly pretentious and realizes exactly what their mega cross-overs are about.

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I am however looking forward to World War Hulk.

 

From what I've read is that because of his return, they have to evacuate Manhattan. Completely.

 

The Hulk returning with the entire armada of Sakaar at his beckon. People are expecting HIM to be pissed and return. But I bet they didn't expect him to return with the army of a fucking planet.

 

The Hulk returning and kicking the X-men's, F4's. Avengers, SHIELDS, and just about anybody elses ass he feels like kicking. World War Hulk will have more of an impact then Civil War. None of this "OH GOD WHAT HAVE WE DONE!!!" Hulk's pissed and the entire planet earth is pretty much going to be used like a pinata for the Hulk.

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Despite Cap letting people die over something he was willing to give in about in the end, I liked it tons more than the Infinity Crapfest over at DC last year.

You got the title wrong that was something that Marvel did back in the nineties. I present people's exhibit A.

Infinity_Gauntlet-01.jpg

and B.

infinitywar_marvel_1_s.JPG

and C.

promo%20inf%20crusade.jpg

and D., E., and F.;

Wikipidia Entry for Infinity Gauntlet

Wikipidia Entry for Infinity War

Wikipidia Entry for Infinity Crusade

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Actually that brings up a good point.

 

During the Infinity Gauntlet. Cap walked up to a fully powered Thanos and told him to fuck off. Yes he died, but the point being is that Captain America is supposed to be a guy who has bigger grapes than anybody on the planet.

 

He walked right up to Thanos, fully powered with the Infinity Gauntlet and when Thanos was like "Stand Down or I will kill you!" Captain America walked up to him, face to face and back handed him. Yeah he died, from being pulled into the earth and having Thanos snap his neck. But he went down like a man. None of this crying bullshit.

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Actually that brings up a good point.

 

During the Infinity Gauntlet. Cap walked up to a fully powered Thanos and told him to fuck off. Yes he died, but the point being is that Captain America is supposed to be a guy who has bigger grapes than anybody on the planet.

 

He walked right up to Thanos, fully powered with the Infinity Gauntlet and when Thanos was like "Stand Down or I will kill you!" Captain America walked up to him, face to face and back handed him. Yeah he died, from being pulled into the earth and having Thanos snap his neck. But he went down like a man. None of this crying bullshit.

:icon_cry: Amen Brother *sniffle* Amen!

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Well, he did kick Iron Man's ass before deciding to give up.....

 

One good thing about the Infinity Crapfest from Marvel was that Adam Warlock actually had a part to play in a Marvel title again.

The plot about the Goddess was sort of interesting, but it needed to be really streamlined and cut out the 100+ cross-overs involved.

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I dunno, the Infinity Gauntlet had its own retarded ending when Thanos's daughter/niece/whatever (who was zombified at the time) walked up and took the glove off of Thanos, the most powerful being in existence at the time.

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Christian you couldn't be more right. That's another thing that I have really enjoyed about DC's latest titles and direction is that they have taken characters that we never really saw a lot of in the last ten years or so and made them viable and interesting. Marvel doesn't give a rat's ass about it's secondary characters and doesn't have the balls to use them in ways that are more character driven. Nor do they do that for their primary characters either for that matter. I have said it before and I will say it again until Marvel gets the balls to let their writing and ideas, thus living up to their self given title The House of Ideas, guide their editorial decisions and not their over the top marketing ideas and style over substance mentallity, than FUCK MARVEL!!! Exept for the Dark Tower series and Ennis' work with them, which of the first I expect them to screw up some how, and of the latter it has surprised me what they have allowed him to do.

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I've really enjoyed your all's commentary on CW and wish Wolvy was writing books and being senior editor for Marvel. 8-)

 

 

I liked the start of Civil War, but thought that making the concept work was maybe too ambitious an undertaking for Marvel. Into the second half of the story I got bored and stopped buying any more of the books. I'm not sorry I bought books earlier in the series, though.

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I've really enjoyed your all's commentary on CW and wish Wolvy was writing books and being senior editor for Marvel. 8-)

 

 

I liked the start of Civil War, but thought that making the concept work was maybe too ambitious an undertaking for Marvel. Into the second half of the story I got bored and stopped buying any more of the books. I'm not sorry I bought books earlier in the series, though.

 

I too wish I was writing and being Senior Editor for Marvel. A man can dream can't he.

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You've got my vote as long as you hook a brother up and sling a writing job my way.

You can write the new ongoing Ronin & Super Skrull book that came directly after Annihilation.

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Capt. America was representing the side of the protesters. And since we don't have an actual violent revolution occuring in America right now, they can only represent those who oppose the President's actions. Which leaves the message as, "Isn't a united nation living in slavery, better than a divided, factional nation? Huh?". And, at the end, we see that Tony Stark has some really good ideas to improve the nation, and since he represents the side of the government, we must assume that maybe George Bush has some really good ideas for improving our society, if we just give him a chance.

...and this is why I don't read Marvel, and I love much more the political analysis done by Shirow Masamune in Ghost in the Shell or Black Magic.

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Yeah that's going to be awesome. I'm thinking something like a space fering biker film. Yeah that's the ticket.

 

360px-52_17_CVR.PNG

 

Don't mind me, am high on cold medicine.

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I read the trade "Prelude to Civil War". I liked the "Illuminati" issue, and the Spider-man stuff didn't make much sense, but it was alright...the Fantastic 4 stuff suuuuucked. Doctor Doom shows up, and Captain Stretchy-Pants says, "that voice!" Then, they basically let Doom walk up to mjoiln...mjloin...mjiji...Thor's Hammer. Suckfest.

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Infinity Gauntlet was awesome at the time, I abso-smurfly loved it. I had a certain degree of awe for the old Starlin Strange Adventures/Warlock stuff, although as a child I never fully understood what the hell was going on in any given issue, but it made me a mark for all things Starlin. Thanos has become one of my favorite characters, and that Annhilation x-over is right up there with Seven Soldiers for recent crossovers. Feel the love for Infinity Gauntlet.

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Yeah that's going to be awesome. I'm thinking something like a space fering biker film. Yeah that's the ticket.

 

360px-52_17_CVR.PNG

 

Don't mind me, am high on cold medicine.

I am exposed exit stage left.... :blink:

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Infinity Gauntlet was awesome at the time, I abso-smurfly loved it. I had a certain degree of awe for the old Starlin Strange Adventures/Warlock stuff, although as a child I never fully understood what the hell was going on in any given issue, but it made me a mark for all things Starlin. Thanos has become one of my favorite characters, and that Annhilation x-over is right up there with Seven Soldiers for recent crossovers. Feel the love for Infinity Gauntlet.

Man I'm not trying to tell you or anyone else their business but I.M.H.O. Marvel has always had a problem being more concerned about their visual style and less about their writing and storylines. Jim Starlin and his ilk are the perfect examples of that. I mean let's look at the evidence; here are some of their writers Jim Starlin, Scott Lobdell, Doug Moench, and the list of crappy second rate writers goes on. However look at their choices of Artist, Jack Kirby, Todd McFarlane, Jim Lee, Tim Sale, and the list of excellent artist goes on. Whereas DC will sometimes pursue writers to the detremant of their artwork and I'm okay with that. Think about the writers who have worked mostly for DC; Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Geoff Johns, Garth Ennis, etc. These are great writers. That's what I want ouf of a comic a good story that holds my attention; not just pretty pictures.

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I think you're on a hiding to nothing there, I'm afraid - both Gaiman and Ennis are both currently doing high-profile work at Marvel, for example, along with Ed Brubaker, Brian K. Vaughan, Brian Michael Bendis (OK, so his writing's gone all to cock in the last few years, but that's not the point), Dan Slott, Matt Fraction...it's not too long ago that they had Grant Morrison and Gail Simone,

too, none of whom are exactly slouches in the writing department. Meanwhile, all the artists you mentioned have regularly worked at/are currently working at DC - along with Frank Quitely, Darwyn Cooke, JH Williams, and plenty of other top-drawer drawing talent both past and present (Neal Adams on Batman, anyone?).

 

There are definitely differences between the corporate philosophies of DC and Marvel, but even if you're just aiming for a very broad generalisation, it can't be boiled down to anything as neat or convenient as "good writers, bad art" versus "bad writers, good art".

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I suspect it's more to do with DC being the ones who rooted up new, chiefly British, writing talent in the 80 and early 90s - talent that went on to produce work that was unseen in American comics and therefore became legend.

 

So now when you think of the major British/Irish writers, your mental connections go like this:

 

Gaiman = Sandman = DC,

Ennis = Preacher = DC,

Moore = Watchmen = DC.

 

Rather than the current sitiuation, which is:

 

Gaiman = Eternals = Marvel,

Ennis = loads of stuff = Marvel/Avatar/Wildstorm,

Moore = LoeG = self-published? Not DC any more, at any rate.

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Mark rescued me! My hero!

 

Plus, we are talking about a comic book from the eighties. Jesus, the industry has come a long way from Image and Rob Leifeld. When I was young, we didn't know who wrote any given comic book, at least not until Frank Miller did his thing on Daredevil. In fact, when Miller first went big, Daredevil #158 was the big value comic cos that is when his art began. He only took over writing duties on issue #169 when Elektra showed up, his creation on his first script! Needless to say, at the time, nobody was jacking up the price of issue #169 because nobody was giving writers proper credit. It was just the way of the time. Image fucked everything up and somewhere along the line, somebody must have cried that the emperor's new clothes were not there and now we can all enjoy a decent read, but don't blame me for the eighties! Especially not for Janet Jackson and cocaine decisions. Or Who's the Boss, certainly not for that shitty show. You can blame me for Aliens if you like.

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Jim Starlin was once an amazing writer, if not prolific. His style didn't hold up in the 1990s era of mass-marketed comics, where everyone wanted to be like Image, but in the 1970s, Starlin's Warlock was the equivalent of Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol (say). It's still one of my favourite comic series, as brief as it was.

Also, Marvel had amazing writers in the 1970s. Most of the creme-de-la-creme of comic writers worked for Marvel in the '70s. The first creator you could put on the list with Gaiman, Morrison, Moore, etc. was Steve Gerber, who's best work was all done at Marvel in the 1970s. Roy Thomas was amazing, if you think about the field of comics when he started writing. Steven Engelhart, Gerry Conway and Len Wein were three of the best (although Wein wrote just as much good stuff for DC as Marvel, but he started at Marvel).

Marv Wolfman's Tomb of Dracula was considered ground-breaking at the time it first started.

 

DC was ahead of the curve in the 1980s and branched out and took the initiative (and took risks) because Marvel was stuck in their mold of doing the same thing over and over again by the 1980s. Marvel's problem has always been they're afraid to take risks and have trouble evolving.

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Amen. How old are you, if I might ask, Christian? Or maybe a better question is, did you read those Starlin Strange Adventures/Warlock back in the day, or did you discover them later?

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I'm older than this planet and all the inhabitants of such....although my birthday thread said I was 32.

 

I started reading comics in the early-80s. First just (Uncanny) X-Men, then other Marvels. I always loved old science fiction, B-movies, pulp magazines....all that sort of thing, and when I found out Marvel had a comic called Strange Tales once upon a time, I couldn't resist the title, figuring it would be full of amazing stories to rival H.G. Wells even. I was young....

I was probably about 12 when I discovered Strange Tales. I wanted to own all the old Dr. Strange stories, but with my budget, I had to buy whatever cheap issues I could find. The Warlock issues of Strange Tales were all really cheap back then, and I bought all of them (not knowing who Adam Warlock was). I read those comics and thought they were "weird". I didn't understand them at all.

Same thing happened with Steve Gerber's run on Defenders actually. The local comic shop had a HUGE amount of Defenders comics in their 25 cent bins. My cousin read Avengers and I figured Defenders was about the same, only cheaper! I bought a bunch of them and thought they were weird, nothing as good as Avengers, and stopped reading Defenders.

After I got older and started to find out more information about comics, I decided to take a chance and re-read those "weird" Warlock issues of Strange Tales (and Defenders comics too) that I owned. I understood what the writer was doing with those titles now, and fell in love with both titles.

I hunted down the Warlock series from the early-90s that Marvel reprinted the complete Jim Starlin Warlock stories, and now proudly own the entire Starlin Warlock series.

I also started to hunt down the Jim Starlin run on Captain Marvel a few years ago, but besides the issue where Capt. Marvel meets Eon and develops Cosmic Consciousness which is the same level as Starlin's Warlock, I thought those stories were a pale cry from Starlin's Warlock, although they're still a decent read.

 

There's your long answer.

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