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Which is why there's probably just going to be a much more acceptable message about Iron Man realising that the arms trade is a Bad Thing. Which I'm actually in favour of, because it appeals to my liberal sensibilities without getting in the way of explodo action.

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Which is why there's probably just going to be a much more acceptable message about Iron Man realising that the arms trade is a Bad Thing. Which I'm actually in favour of, because it appeals to my liberal sensibilities without getting in the way of explodo action.

 

 

In the animated film, Tony is trying to pull the company away from arms manufacturing, but the board of directors fights him on it.

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There's no board of directors with Tony Stark! Tony Stark is the last of the rugged individualists specially bred by the United States!

 

When Tony stopped using his company for arms manufacture in the comics, SHIELD attempted to take over the company for the government, and continue arms production. That was a good story.

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Which is why there's probably just going to be a much more acceptable message about Iron Man realising that the arms trade is a Bad Thing. Which I'm actually in favour of, because it appeals to my liberal sensibilities without getting in the way of explodo action.

I don't think that will happen either. When do you ever see a mainstream American movie criticize the American arms industry, specifically the part of the arms industry that supplies the U.S. military?

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Lord of War criticized the arms industry in general. And it was a halfway decent Nic Cage Power Man movie.

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I'd like to see them use the Warren Ellis characterization of Tony Stark. As much as I hated that story-arc, Ellis' character of Stark was great.

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I'd like to see them use the Warren Ellis characterization of Tony Stark. As much as I hated that story-arc, Ellis' character of Stark was great.

If they just kept that first issue interview with Stark.

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I'd like to see them use the Warren Ellis characterization of Tony Stark. As much as I hated that story-arc, Ellis' character of Stark was great.

I'd like to see it too. It's probably too thoughtful and intelligent for superhero movie audiences (at least in the eyes of the studios). Better the jetsetting, bimbo-draped Stark with the kind of idiot glitz that Hollywood loves.

 

I want a technological and economic revolution that will make high quality moviemaking and wide distribution a possibility for more than just those with huge amounts of money behind them and a very, very few lucky others. I'd like to see (in my lifetime at least if not soon) people be able to make "niche" movies that really could appeal to smaller minorities of viewers and still make a living for the moviemakers. I'd rather see a bewildering profusion of movies out there that no one would ever have time to see than the system of relatively few movies that almost all aim toward a lowest common denominator of audience mentality, with uniform stereotyped bodytypes, sex roles, social class representations, etc., across all of them, that we are afflicted with now.

 

That's why I see so few movies. I'm just not interested in seeing something that's suitable to Hollywood's idea of Joe everyman, especially not at $10 a shot.

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I'd like to see them use the Warren Ellis characterization of Tony Stark. As much as I hated that story-arc, Ellis' character of Stark was great.

I'd like to see it too. It's probably too thoughtful and intelligent for superhero movie audiences (at least in the eyes of the studios). Better the jetsetting, bimbo-draped Stark with the kind of idiot glitz that Hollywood loves.

 

If that were all the character in the film were though, I doubt they'd have gotten Robert Downey Jnr on board! These last few years he's crept up as one of the best actors around and has added dimensions to all sorts of balsa wood characterisation!

 

Jon Favreau seems pretty intense about getting this right and so I'm remaining quietly confident.

 

(plus Iron Man was absolute fave hero as a youngster - whereas I've always grown up with Batman and Superman through many a medium... I just lost track of Iron Man - what the hell's this Civil War stuff? - so the news of this film is genuinely exciting the little 9-year old me!)

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I grew up reading Iron Man too. I own every Iron Man comic up until Kurt Busiek left the the third series. I own the Tales of Suspense issues in the Essential books.

My cousin, and best friend, and me got into comics at the same time....back in 1982....The first comics were collected were Uncanny X-Men (me) and Iron Man (my cousin). He used to come over to my house every weekend, bringing Iron Man comics for us to read.

 

I can't see Hollywood going for a thoughtful, intelligent Iron Man movie.

Marvel movies don't have a great track record in that regard.

I'm sure it'll have lots of explosions.

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I have faith in Favreau's ability to craft a smartly-written, well-performed, gripping action tale. He's worked with some great writers, directors, and actors as well as gotten a sci-fi/fantasy film that had plenty of cgi and sfx under his belt--- so he should be more than capable of giving us a solid Iron Man movie.

 

All that, of course, is no gaurantee, but I'm hopeful and will keep an open mind; conversely, I definitely do not feel that way about either Transformers or Watchmen.

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Well, Transformers just sounds like a bad idea.

 

With Watchmen, is it because you feel closer to the source material? Watchmen means more to you than Iron Man.

I'm not overly optimistic about either, although if they made Iron Man into a mindless big budget action flick I wouldn't really mind. It's definately harder to translate something like Watchmen to the screen than a superhero title like Iron Man.

I mean, I enjoyed the Daredevil movie. No, it wasn't Frank Miller Daredevil levels, but I never expected it to be, and I thought they did a good enough job translating the comic to screen.

It's not as high concept as Watchmen.

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With Watchmen, is it because you feel closer to the source material?

No, I feel pretty much the same about the two comics. I didn't care all that much for Watchmen. I felt that it was groundbreaking and worthy of praise for its style and characterization but by the same token the story and chracters failed to grab me. For quite a few years Moore (and others, particularly those associated with the "British Invasion") wrote really negative books filled with violence, rape, cruelty and mostly unlikeable leads. There's only so much of that I can take, and unless the book has (for me) redeeming qualities like an interesting plot or solid artwork I just can't get behind the work. The story-within-the-story was dreadfully boring and seemed like an attempt to shoehorn in a "high brow" meta concept and it felt very inorganic. (I'm talking about the kid reading the pirate comic.)

 

Anyway, so as not to veer further off tangent, I mentioned not having faith in a Watchmen adaptation (vs. an Iron Man one) because of the very literary nature of the work and the fact that Zack Snyder is slated to make it.

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For quite a few years Moore (and others, particularly those associated with the "British Invasion") wrote really negative books filled with violence, rape, cruelty and mostly unlikeable leads.

 

It's interesting that so many people seem to define Watchmen by these elements - I can't be the only one here who felt, and still feels (moreso now than ever before, in fact) that the very warm, optimistic and human romance between Nite-Owl and Silk Spectre is, in many ways, the real heart of the story, can I? It's something that really distinguishes between Watchmen and the legion of one-dimensionally grim, miserable "grown-up" copy-cat books which followed it.

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I guess that sub-plot wasn't enough to balance things out for me.

 

Regardless, I've been planning on a thorough re-reading at some point in the near future; so who knows? Maybe I'll change my stance on the book completely. On a somewhat-related note, I recently gave Planetary a re-read and was far less impressed with it. In fact, I'm now more inclined to agree with you, Mark, about the series and its underwhelming finale (which I had previously, and erroniously, decried as being better than Seven Soldiers of Victory #1). I'm beginning to think that, when it comes to comics, you're rarely wrong. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go change my kneepads....

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I'm beginning to think that, when it comes to comics, you're rarely wrong. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go change my kneepads....

 

 

Twaddle, but flattering anyway. Thanks, and I'll leave the bundle of used fivers on the nightstand as I leave, as usual.

 

That said, if you give DK2 a reread, you may well find it to be a misunderstood and hugely-entertaining flawed masterpiece, after all...

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I'll probably give SeaGuy another whirl next time I break open the shoeboxes. I'll be surprised if it's drastically raised in my estimation, though. And I'll be even more surprised if it makes me want to buy the sequel that Grant Morrison supposedly had as one of his conditions for doing more DC work.

 

It's interesting that so many people seem to define Watchmen by these elements - I can't be the only one here who felt, and still feels (moreso now than ever before, in fact) that the very warm, optimistic and human romance between Nite-Owl and Silk Spectre is, in many ways, the real heart of the story, can I?

 

Oh, absolutely. The scene where the Owlship euphemistically shoots out flames is one of the most joyful moments I can remember in modern comics. Likewise Dr Manhattan smiling on a sleeping Dan and Laurie before leaving for the stars. Also, the newspaper vendor hugging the kid protectively at the climax of the New York storyline is pretty life-affirming.

 

However, it's one of very few genuinely light moments in the comic - the only other unequivocally respectful, touching relationship in the comic is between Dan and Nite Owl I and that doesn't end well at all. Everything else is grim as fuck, though counterpointed by some dry wit and dark humour.

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And I'll be even more surprised if it makes me want to buy the sequel that Grant Morrison supposedly had as one of his conditions for doing more DC work.

 

Which he's apparently working on now, according to an interview he gave to Fanboy Radio a month or two back. I'm hugely looking forward to it - much as I loved Seaguy, the third issue was a weak conclusion, and I'd like to see him finish the story - but I can see why you wouldn't be.

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Maybe if it had been solicited and released as a nine-part series (rather than three three-parters) then I would have been a bit more satisfied by it. God, I'm almost talking myself into buying it now!

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Oh, absolutely. The scene where the Owlship euphemistically shoots out flames is one of the most joyful moments I can remember in modern comics. Likewise Dr Manhattan smiling on a sleeping Dan and Laurie before leaving for the stars. Also, the newspaper vendor hugging the kid protectively at the climax of the New York storyline is pretty life-affirming.

 

However, it's one of very few genuinely light moments in the comic - the only other unequivocally respectful, touching relationship in the comic is between Dan and Nite Owl I and that doesn't end well at all. Everything else is grim as fuck, though counterpointed by some dry wit and dark humour.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't deny that Watchmen is pretty grim overall, although I'd hesitate to call it unequivocally negative in its attitude towards humanity (the character from whose perspective most of the really cynical observations come, Rorschach, is pretty unequivocally depicted as a psychopath, and not someone whose judgement is entirely to be trusted). I'd also mention the final scene with Silk Spectre I as a fairly positive conclusion to her story, although it's more than a little bittersweet. I do think, though, that there's more light and shade to the book than a lot of the writers who copied it over the subsequent 20 years seemed to notice, and it's one of the things I like the most about it.

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Yeah, I wouldn't deny that Watchmen is pretty grim overall, although I'd hesitate to call it unequivocally negative in its attitude towards humanity

 

Neither would I, I'm just saying that pretty much every other relationship is slightly (or very) messed up in some way. But yes, the miserable imitators missed the point of the thing almost entirely.

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I like Seaguy, even moreso upon re-reading it (and with some background info about it from Morrison).

 

DKR I never quite got into. I thought it was alright, re-read it once, and thought it was dated and still just "alright."

 

 

So, back to Iron Man:

What's the proposed budget for this puppy? And have any other major roles been cast?

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