Jump to content
A. Heathen

Revisiting an old subject

Which character should John's sprogs kill?  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. Which character should John's sprogs kill?

    • Map
      0
    • Clarice
      2
    • "Watford"
      1
    • Cheryl
      2
    • that lot in Streatham
      1
    • Kit/Zed/Angie
      8
    • Gemma
      2
    • CHAS (are you mad?)
      0
    • write-in nomination
      1


Recommended Posts

“Reasons to be Cheerful,” Part 1 of 4. John Constantine’s three illegitimate children are back — only this time, they’re going after John’s few remaining friends and loved ones. Can an aged and exhausted Constantine match three beings born with all of the Hellblazer’s magical talents but with the hearts of demons?

 

“Reasons to be Cheerful,” Part 2 of 4. As Constantine’s three very illegitimate children continue to hunt and destroy his closest friends and allies, John finds aid from a highly unlikely — and as yet anonymous — source. But does this mystery helper really have Constantine’s best interests at heart?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kit/Angie for me. It would seem appropriate, somehow. Zed's been out of the comic for so long it wouldn't really make any impact, while it seems pretty clear that...

 

Actually, scrap all of the above. Damn. I just realised how much another 'Woman in a Refridgerator' story would annoy me. I want to see a man killed in a comic, for a change. Discount my vote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"That lot in Streatham"?

 

Clarice is doomed, I reckon. How much more can you really do with her?

1:100 favourite.

 

Alba from Staring at the Wall is equally likely to die. She's not established enough for the audience to want her to survive and could be useful as "the one that dies in the intro sequence" if Mike's going to bother with that. The only question is if she'll even turn up.

1:99

 

Tony Masters is expendable. You can knock him off to upset Gemma and Cheryl without messing up John's head too much. The resulting fallout with Cheryl could be useful too.

1:2

 

Map too, probably. A powerful character whose death would really make the kids look tough. Not sure about the message given out by a load of Aryan kids killing a black guy though.

Evens.

 

The female deaths to male deaths ratio is sufficiently tipped toward Y chromosomes that Hellblazer can afford to knock off Angie without looking like mysogynist trash. Also, John lived out fourteen years of marriage with her in ish 200 so he'll feel close enough to her for her death to actually affect him. On the other hand, she's one of the (very) few co-stars that Carey actually created, so he might be reluctant to kill her off.

5:1

 

Anyone remember Nathan Arcane? Tough guy, good sense of humour, could be useful as a recurring cast member, so it'd probably not be a good idea to kill him off. On the other hand, he's not established enough to guarantee his survival, and would be entertaining as a foil for Constantine who can snuff it in the final act.

5:1

 

Cheryl doesn't really do much in Hellblazer, but she does provide a human anchor for John and Gemma. Her death would probably provide meat for future stories featuring Gemma and would hit John harder than anything has before. Lots of useful stories waiting to be mined here, but if Carey does kill her he'd better make good use of the opportunity to stop it from appearing gratuitous and sensationalist.

8:1

 

Hope Watford doesn't snuff it since John's non-magical associates are few and far between - and it's not like John's close enough for Watford's death to really matter. Probably not important enough for the kids to bother with.

10:1

 

It'd be a shame to see Zed die, since she's probably one of the most positively portrayed female characters in comic books. I wouldn't mind her popping back for a spell (ho ho) if she made it out alive though. Mike was originally going to have her in Staring at the Wall, but decided against it since her character was to go loony for a bit. Would he really pop her clogs?

15:1

 

Killing Gemma would be a shame, since there's a lot more that can be done with her relationship with John. And Carey's expressed an interest in the character.

25:1

 

Any members of Chas' family should watch their backs, but the relationship between him and John is strained already and killing any them off might make it impossible for Carey to reset it without stretching credibility.

25:1

 

John's not been in love with Kit since Critical Mass, when he transferred his passion for her into The Demon Constantine. Then again, he just lived out ten years of relationship with her in the latest issue, so who knows? It's a possibility, but she's Ennis' baby and a fan-favourite, and until this issue there did seem to be a conscious decision by the writers/editors to leave her in the past.

30:1

 

Chas is untouchable. You hear me, Carey? Untouchable! I know where you live! Roughly! And if I have to break every car window in London just to get back at you then I will! Actually, I wouldn't, because that would take too much effort. I'd probably be very bitchy about it on the internet though. How'd you like them apples?

100:1

 

Who's betting that the mysterious helper is actually the Phantom Stranger? He won't die though.

2:1 on PS being the helper, 100,000,000:1 on him buying the Phantom Pharm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"That lot in Streatham"?

 

 

"That lot in Streatham" = any of Paul Jenkins' mates who appeared as characters during his run :-) was set in the area of Norwood, Streatham and Crystal Palace.

 

I agree with you re the impact of Cheryl (or Gemma) dying. Deliberately left Tony off because I think that'd be too similar to the dynamic with Chas's missus.

 

Map would be a shame because *he* told John to fuck off, and deserves to remain around the fringes.

 

For me, Zed, Kit and Angie are all good strong characters who should be left where they are (2 in John's past, 1 in his present & future).

 

It'd make some sense if each of the kids went for people from their "Mom's" era, but would probably hogtie the story too much (and would result in Streatham remaining untouched).

 

Let's all think of obscure characters who are still alive ... oooh what about Marj & Merc ? And whatever happened to that little Nergal boy from the Secret Files ?

And all those blokes in that pub who reckoned they knew Constantine ? They want to watch themselves too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Streatham lot. Nah, I don't hate them enough to want them dead. In fact, I actually liked Rich and his family.

 

Besides, only hardcore fans have heard of them so killing then off wouldn't have much effect.

100:1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nah, I don't hate them enough to want them dead. In fact, I actually liked Rich and his family.

 

Besides, only hardcore fans have heard of them so killing then off wouldn't have much effect.

100:1

 

 

WHOA THERE !

 

We are talking about people close to John dying here.

While that may not score much on the FanKid-o-meter it will have dramatic effect on yer man.

 

Most of the deaths John feels responsible for have been directly.

What if an assortment of characters who have left the series and got on with their lives are disposed of ?

 

Are you suggesting (by implication) that the story should reflect what will upset the mainstream of fans ? In fact, if you were to strip all them old characters from the story then future stories can be free of 200 issues of back-continuity. And there's nothing to stop a character or two being introduced as an old friend and then killed - it's been done lots before (actually that's the only reason not to do it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We are talking about people close to John dying here.

While that may not score much on the FanKid-o-meter it will have dramatic effect on yer man.

 

Yeah, but when were these characters last in Hellblazer? Five, six years ago? Kill off Clarice or Map and we can point confused readers towards the Haunted trade or Staring at the Wall. Kill off Rich the punk and you'll have to tell them to look through the bargain bins for issue 90-whatever.

 

Sure, new characters have been introduced just to be killed off but they've always had either a half-decent amount of screentime first (Dez, Ray Monde) or had John mope and reminisce about them afterwards (Elizabeth Bracknall, Gary Lester). Zed and Kit were reintroduced in issue 200, so are fair game. Rich and family weren't reintroduced and most likely won't be before the kids run amok, so the only option is the latter - by which point they'll all be dead and the eulogising will be taking up valuble page time that could be used advancing the story and doing something more interesting. It's just dramatically buggered every way as far as I can see*, but I'm not a writer so I'm very probably wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Unless Mike plans to have a couple of them survive and become recurring characters again. That would be good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

please, not Chas. actually, I don't think it will be Chas, unless All His Engines is set before the whole Carey run on the regular title.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bye bye, Angie, it was nice knowing you.

 

Honestly I don't think Mike will knock her off but I love the old Women in Refridgerators bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Mike would knock off Chas though I am a bit worried since Bradstreet was looking for pictures of Chas for the cover of #204.

 

I think Claire and Map are the most likely to first get the axe. I too doubt Mike would pull Mercury or someone from 15 years ago just to kill off. That's would just be lazy storytelling. I would expect the lot from the seance to get it. Just as Ennis killed off most of his supporting cast towars the end of his run, I would expect Carey to do something similar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah, I'm too young for that.

 

Re killing off characters, as we often come to the subject of the great big huge continuity laden behemoth that is the 200 issue monthly series, I think it's as reasonable to knock off someone from the "distant" past as it is to make sure you get amputated arms on the right (I mean left) side.

 

If the Nergal family are after John's friends they can go back a long long way.

 

Although Chas, Cheryl & Gemma have to be ultimate targets. As do Kit, Zed and Angie - who are "special" among the ladies he's had relationships and/or sex with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the wider purpose in all of this?

Has Rosa manipulated John into creating her demon spawn just so they can fuck him up or does she have a longer gameplan?

World domination and all that bollocks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Re killing off characters, as we often come to the subject of the great big huge continuity laden behemoth that is the 200 issue monthly series, I think it's as reasonable to knock off someone from the "distant" past as it is to make sure you get amputated arms on the right (I mean left) side.

 

Not quite sure what you mean by this...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone!

 

I mean it. Been far too long since we had a good old-fashioned slaughter and sure what's the point of building up a large supporting cast in Hellblazer if you're not going to gut the lot of them ?

 

To my mind both Chas & Kit should be the only safe parties.

 

Would get a real kick out of seeing Rich and company bought back for a one-time-only guest appearance in a special Slaughter Only issue. I wouldn't put it past Mike to bring back new, obscure characters - he did it with Gary so there's no reason why he shouldn't play around with some of the other unused characters.

 

Angie is working a big game on John so she's safe till their final face-off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not quite sure what you mean by this...?

 

Well, if you want details like the man with the wavy hand to be correct (and why not?) then it's fair game to have characters from the past (as well as events) come back to haunt John regardless of how long ago or how popular they might be. Whether they turn up with important messages or get killed howwibly.

These are different aspects of the same thing in the larger story.

ie using the foundation work of the past two hundred issues.

 

After all, who is going to know that Thomas Constantine lost his left arm?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What is the wider purpose in all of this?

Has Rosa manipulated John into creating her demon spawn just so they can fuck him up or does she have a longer gameplan?

World domination and all that bollocks.

 

She mentions world domination in the full page spread where she has the snake body and braided little girl head, and later she says their children will "rape the world," so I'm assuming she wants world domination while fucking with John's head at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, if you want details like the man with the wavy hand to be correct (and why not?) then it's fair game to have characters from the past (as well as events) come back to haunt John regardless of how long ago or how popular they might be. Whether they turn up with important messages or get killed howwibly.

These are different aspects of the same thing in the larger story.

ie using the foundation work of the past two hundred issues.

 

There's a difference between being extremely anal about tiny obscure details and bringing back characters in a way that will have minimal dramatic impact but will confuse and put off newer readers.

 

The scene with Gary Lester in ish 181 was completely throwaway. It didn't matter if you hadn't read that first Hellblazer storyline since he was done and dusted within about two pages, and there was no intended emotional impact on either John or the reader, except perhaps a smile from the older bunch.

 

In this instance you're talking about having John's life get all fucked up, and in order for the audience to understand and appreciate the impact it's had on him, they need to become familiar with the characters either before or after the storyline. Since it's too late to squeeze them in beforehand and having them lament them afterwards would be dramatically flat, I don't think it's very likely that they'll make an appearance at all.

 

Unless Carey intends a couple to survive for later issues, in which case it would be reasonable.

 

Realistically, I don't think this storyline will have anything more than one or two deaths, probably of extremely peripheral characters like Tony or Clarice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, if you want details like the man with the wavy hand to be correct (and why not?) then it's fair game to have characters from the past (as well as events) come back to haunt John regardless of how long ago or how popular they might be.

 

Don't agree with that. Comparing the decision to use Thomas Constantine with that of bringing back (say) the supporting characters from Jenkin's run is comparing like with like. A big artistic gaff like the reappearing arm is totally different in my book.

 

A couple of well-timed flashback panels could bring Rich and family firmly into play as cannon-fodder though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But correlating the two was a bit of sophistry on my part.

 

James observed that new readers might be put off with details like old characters coming back (to be killed), my point was that those same newer readers will not care about things like Tom Constantine's magic arm.

 

Yes, they are different but they are extremes of the same thing.

 

And I think that integrity of the long history of the book is as much served by attention to detail as it is by revisiting past details in major AND minor ways.

Continuity is not a case of including all or nothing, after all.

At least not if it is going to reflect real life.

 

Then again in the context of All His Engines, there's not going to be many new folks going for a hardcover, is there?

 

And I would like to reiterate that shoddy research of photoreference may be laid at the doors of artists, but continuity like this is more down to corporate editors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I'm lost as to what we're talking about here. I don't think, given the current set-up of the comic, that reintroducing Rich and his family in Reasons to be Cheerful for the sole purpose of killing them off is a good idea.

 

I'm not clear what this has to do with arms. Can someone explain? You may need to draw diagrams because I'm feeling a bit slow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×