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James

Constantinian sexuality

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I'm actually really sorry I brought this whole subject up. I thought it was canon that John was bisexual and that meant people would be cool with it, but evidently it's much more of a touchy subject than I'd expected.

In my experience you're quite wrong, it's not very touchy at all. Very very few - if any - people here have had a "problem" with the notion that John's bisexual. Some think it's stretching things too far (the instances that hint in this direction are quite few), but that's as far as it goes, really.

Myself, I have no problem with him being bisexual, although I'd probably label him more "bi-curious" than bisexual.

 

I think you may be confusing the fact that we're a bunch of geeks who like to nitpick about minor details in our beloved character with us being "touchy" on the subject.

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In my experience, it's a view which is, not surprisingly, firmly-held among a lot of bisexual men and women,

That isn't true in my experience, at least not at this point in my life. That kind of thinking comes from people who are younger and have relatively little life experience.

 

 

I find it hard to argue with the notion that sexuality exists along a spectrum, rather than being a binary choice between gay and straight, but it seems equally clear that a reasonable majority of people are clustered fairly tightly together at one end of the spectrum or the other, with rather fewer of them spread out across a range of points inbetween.

To some, anyway. The way I see things, Kinsey's results are still basically valid, with the number of people reducing in each of his sexual continuum categories from exclusively heterosexual through various gradations of bisexuality to exclusive homosexuality. The striking thin is that the majority, of men, anyway, are exclusively heterosexual, but most of the rest are bisexual to some degree,and something like only 4% were exclusively homosexual. I'm not saying that particular number was right, given that he used flakey sampling methods, but just the general relative distribution of people, or at least men, along the continuum is accurate.

 

One thing that may not be apparent to most straight people anyway is how many gay people were married, to a person of the opposite sex, for years, before coming out and going to an apparently completely gay lifestyle. I mean, people you'd look at and NEVER would think that could be true of them.

 

The dominant definition of being gay is that you are exclusively homosexual and of course the dominant definition of being straight is mostly NOT being homosexual. So there really isn't much place for anyone who's interested to a significant degree in both genders during the same period of their life, but much less place for them among straight people than among gay ones. If you're hanging out with gay people, they generally are very uninterested in hearing about past or current relations you're having with the other gender, and if you're hanging with straight people, large portion of them are ready to fuck you over in large or small ways if you talk about your relationships with the same gender. People learn to keep their mouths shut, and the most "successful", as always, compartmentalize their lives.

 

I'd also love to hear Vidal explaining his "choice" theory to a closeted gay kid in Ass-End-Of-Nowheresville, West Virginia.

Yes, many people in such a circumstance truly wish they didn't have "those feelings". As you're implying, there's no choice there.

 

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The whole "bloke's bloke" thing sounds pretty funny to me. Whether a person "acts" in a stereotypically straight or gay manner doesn't have much to do with their actual sexuality.

It's great to hear somebody else say that! "Gay" and "straight" are social constructs and nothing more.

 

 

Behavior is pretty much determined by one's upbringing and environment -- which also explains the "clustering" of people at one end or the other of the Kinsey spectrum. In other cultures and other times (for the most obvious examples, Classical Greek, Roman, Persian, etc.) the idea that a "bloke's bloke" could never have a sexual romantic relationship with another man would have been laughed out of the room.

The rigid typing of people by sexuality is one of the unfortunate peculliarities of our present times and culture.

 

 

I'm actually really sorry I brought this whole subject up. I thought it was canon that John was bisexual and that meant people would be cool with it, but evidently it's much more of a touchy subject than I'd expected.

Jamie Delano described him as having an occasional boyfriend, though I don't think he ever showed us one. (I'm not sure if John was ever supposed to have had a relationship with Ray Monde.) Then, for quite a long time there was no discernible sign of bisexuality in John. But then he had a sexual relationship with A. J. [is that right?] Manor, a man. However, it happened when Brian Azzarello was writing the book, and in part because many fans didn't like his writing and thought he generally did a poor job of writing John and Hellblazer, they tend to resist or reject the relationship, or to explain it away in some fashion or another.

 

I say in part because I think many (most?) fans also generally resist thinking of Constantine as bisexual, in part because there's been very little sign of that, and in part of course, because many fans don't WANT him to be bisexual, and probably more than would admit to that.

 

I don't quite understand the touchiness that seems to abound here about the subject. (Or maybe I do and would rather not.) It really hasn't been brought up much, and after the first couple times which were serious, it had pretty much been brought up humorously until now.

 

Arania, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I hope you stick around.

 

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I don't quite understand the touchiness that seems to abound here about the subject. (Or maybe I do and would rather not.) It really hasn't been brought up much, and after the first couple times which were serious, it had pretty much been brought up humorously until now.

 

Arania, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I hope you stick around.

 

Quite honestly, I don't know where you're coming from with this 'touchiness' thing. I think Red is right in that no one here has a problem with a) John being bisexual b) discussions about John being bisexual. The only reason that its become a bit of a joke subject around here and one that people dont really want to get into it anymore is that it's being flogged to death thanks to blackmanxxx and his hilariously obsessive threads. And ultimately it really is making a mountain of a molehill given that the whole subject centers around one throwaway line in a Delano issue decades ago and a rather silly story where Constantine seduces a guy in order to manipulate a situation (also from what I remember, we're not even sure that the incident even occurred). I'm inclined to believe, like Red, that Constantine went through a bi-curious phase and is now heterosexual and this is simply because of how the character has been written and not because I lead a dual life whereby I am a student during the day and a guy that goes out gaybashing by night.

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I really just came here looking to see if I could find a scan of the relevant page of issue #51. But, JasonT, thanks for the link to the Pandagon post. I love Pandagon!

 

Josh, thank you very much for saying I have a head on my shoulders. I do! I also have a couple of extras in jars in my basement, but let's not talk about those. ;)

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I don't quite understand the touchiness that seems to abound here about the subject. (Or maybe I do and would rather not.)

Oh my God, you're right Josh. You have opened my eyes. I hadn't realised before how we're all closed-minded bigots who wouldn't want John Constantine to be bisexual incase we caught gay from touching the comic. Oh my God! I had those comics in my bedroom! He might have been perving me through the fourth wall. I feel all dirty. :icon_rolleyes:

 

It really hasn't been brought up much, and after the first couple times which were serious, it had pretty much been brought up humorously until now.

It has been brought up rather extensively.

 

The only reason that its become a bit of a joke subject around here and one that people dont really want to get into it anymore is that it's being flogged to death thanks to blackmanxxx and his hilariously obsessive threads. And ultimately it really is making a mountain of a molehill given that the whole subject centers around one throwaway line in a Delano issue decades ago and a rather silly story where Constantine seduces a guy in order to manipulate a situation

 

What he said.

 

Arania, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I hope you stick around.

I do agree with this bit, though. Welcome, Arania.

 

 

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Arania, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I hope you stick around.

I do agree with this bit, though. Welcome, Arania.

 

 

thumbs-up.jpg

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Heh, it's funny how this topic never dies. Just a few months ago I was at a comic shop where people where actually debating this and they saw I had a Hellblazer copy in my hand and got me involved. :laugh:

 

All in all, if John enjoys a good plow, let him! I just find it pretty weird and funny imagining John taking it from a big dude. I mean, seriously... try to think about it. Can you see it? :laugh:

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I just find it pretty weird and funny imagining John taking it from a big dude. I mean, seriously... try to think about it. Can you see it? :laugh:

 

Oh hell yes I can see it! *eyes glaze over, wipes drool from chin*

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For everyone's YI.

 

http://hellblazer.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5146

 

I can't find the BlackmanXXX thread (didn't I link them all together some time ago?).

Yeah, just gave him a link to the handy piece on John's bi-sexuality available on the Livejournal thing Ade linked to.

 

Still got that, by any chance?

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For everyone's YI.

 

http://hellblazer.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5146

 

I can't find the BlackmanXXX thread (didn't I link them all together some time ago?).

 

 

Looks like you've deleted it - searching via his member profile only brings up a tiny handful of posts, none of which are about Constantine's sexuality. Which certainly isn't the BlackmanXXX I remember.

 

Shame, really, as finding that collection of threads would go a long way towards explaining why some of us are "touchy" whenever this subject comes up. CLUE: it's not because we're bigots.

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Shame, really, as finding that collection of threads would go a long way towards explaining why some of us are "touchy" whenever this subject comes up. CLUE: it's not because we're bigots.

Some of us might even have bisexual tendencies... :tongue:

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Yeah. Personally, I'm a big queer, and I think the "Constantine is bisexual" case rests on shaky evidence. And I think it's very important (also and especially when talking about real people) to distinguish between labels based on behavior and labels based on identity. In this case I think that "Constantine has slept with both men and women" is a fair statement to make and supported by the evidence; "Constantine is bisexual" is not. My two cents, anyway.

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You put your 2 cents I put mine 50.

50_cents.jpg

 

I think everybody who knows me enough know also my point of view.

We humans decide what is sexuality (following Nature path, I suppose). Not people enough in a society? Sexuality is only for procreation!! People enough? Sexuality for fun and socialization!! Too many people? Sexuality is a luxury!! (heh)

Bisexuals have a strong social point of view of sexuality. I suppose.

John? John is over society.

And Constantine also.

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I am still awaiting for a comic character whose authors explore its sexuality... being asexual. Come on, guys, we have gay characters, lesbian heros, bisexual magicians... what about an asexual comic character? Alan Moore should write something about that!!

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Holy hell, Spain! When this topic came up, that was something that crossed my mind!

You very rarely ever see asexual characters explored in fiction. True asexuality is extremely rare, that's very true, but there are asexual people out there, and I'd enjoy seeing their lives explored more.

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I am still awaiting for a comic character whose authors explore its sexuality... being asexual. Come on, guys, we have gay characters, lesbian heros, bisexual magicians... what about an asexual comic character? Alan Moore should write something about that!!

Um, Dr. Manhattan?

Dr%20Manhattan%203.JPG

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I was doing a search online to see if I could find some examples of asexuals in popular fiction, and I discovered that Ralph Nader is actually a self-described asexual! I had no idea.

No wonder I like him so much. :smile:

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