Jump to content
A. Heathen

Who can it be now?

The solicits point to Ravenscar ...  

24 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will be Constantine's secret manipulator?

    • Demon Constantine
      6
    • John's dead twin
      13
    • One of his Rogue's Gallery
      1
    • Swamp Thing
      1
    • other
      3
  2. 2. What if it is Demon Constantine?

    • YAY!
      8
    • okay
      8
    • NAY!
      8
  3. 3. What if it is The Golden Child?

    • YAY!
      7
    • okay
      12
    • NAY!
      5
  4. 4. What if it is Swamp Thing?

    • YAY!
      4
    • okay
      5
    • NAY!
      15
  5. 5. What if it is God or The First of The Fallen ?

    • NAY!
      3
    • NAY!
      3
    • and thrice NAY!
      18
  6. 6. What if it is some other previously established character ?

    • YAY?
      6
    • okay!
      14
    • NAY!
      4
  7. 7. What if it is someone else ?

    • Yay
      8
    • Okay
      9
    • Nay
      7


Recommended Posts

#249 "John Constantine's journey of self-discovery comes full circle as he returns to the Ravenscar mental hospital he spent years at to face down the individual who has been manipulating him from the shadows. But this rogue has been hiding in the last place Constantine would ever think to look"

 

Earlier in his run Andy Diggle created that whole mystical psychiatrist business which I for one could have done without.

Of course, Ravenscar is tied to Constantinian Lore in many ways, but the obvious links made so far are The Golden Child and The Demon Constantine. It could even be John himself - there's references to the Jester at the end of things at the start of the Laughing Magician story.

 

How about this for a long shot: It's called "Roots of coincidence"

 

DISCLAIMER

For the purposes of entertainment and fun, let's try and avoid posting "That would be the biggest pile of old cock/fanwank/shite" type of responses here, because we all know that will result in someone saying "How can you criticise something that has not even come out yet?" and someone else saying "It's all been shite since Delano left anyway" and then someone (probably me) wishing that people could try and ac-cent-u-ate the positive for once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be disappointed if it's the Golden Child, but then, I've given my views on dragging up long-forgotten continuity elements plenty of times already. I also agree strongly with Ade about the Ravenscar retcon, so I'm less than thrilled to see that we're going back there for the end of Andy's run - as I think I said at the time, I was willing to accept the Ravenscar thing if it was just a bit of set-up to get Constantine to where Andy wanted him to be psychologically for the rest of his run, but if it turned out to have a more long-term significance, I was going to be pretty seriously unhappy about it. And now, a year or two later...here we are.

 

That said, if it isn't him then the bit about the Golden Boy a few issues ago will turn out to have been a complete waste of pages, which is why I'm pretty sure that's where we're going.

 

I'd love to be surprised, though, which is why I agreed with Bili on the last question.

 

Because I haven't really been enjoying it for a while, I haven't reread any of Andy's issues since his run started. In the interests of (a) giving it a second chance, and (b) doing my homework before the grand finale, I think I'll spend this evening reading back through from the beginning. I'll try to get round to posting my reactions either during or after, I haven't decided which yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My preference for it not being "someone else" (ie a new character) is down to the lack of foreshadowing I can detect for a new character at this stage. I think Andy's run holds together nicely and avoids some of the pitfalls of Mike Carey's longer run.

I think both writers have mined the Hellblazer continuity very well but Andy's done a more incisive job.

Because of that I might be disappointed if Andy didn't build on what has gone before.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Intriguing.

 

I'm still thinking it's more to do with the Insanity-Thing he chucked off the cliff in 'Wheels of Chance, Systems of Control'. He says something about feeling in control from that moment on...which he clearly isn't... plus mentions earlier on that events had been building up to his return to Ravenscar (so the sneaky little [over-used word] could get back inside him in the first place?)

 

I admit to never having read the Golden Boy issues but now know what he was all about. I start to think that it might be a red herring by Andy -- the reference.

 

I think this whole thing about being led around by his sychronicity is more significant than someone from 200 issues ago hidden in there just manipulating him. Perhaps it's his own bad luck magic manifesting as a mix of chance/control. I don't know what that means either but I think Andy is tying back to earlier in his run - by trying to get rid of his guilt and self-loathing at Ravenscar, John inadvertantly invoked it? Perhaps it's always his guilt and self-loathing that's been the source of his power?

 

Or more to the point, I think it could also be his own Constantinian heritage trying to manipulate him (a legacy of the Insanity-things worth of self-loathing and guilt?)

 

But I'm probably sooooo wrong :mong:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, it's not. Let's get 'im. :boogie:

 

Yeah there's mirrors everywhere from his dandy reflection in the first two parter, the mirror cage in the second two-parter...mind you, the whole 'different people controlling you from within' theme of Burnham's Joyride hasn't escaped me either.

 

Ah, we'll see... Im sure everyone's right (especially as Burnham said who 'The Laughing Magician' actually was) but I just like to take pot shots from time to time. Keeps my teeth sharp...if not my wits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Erm whats the Rogues Gallery?

 

 

I have a depressing suspicion that there's an actual answer to that question, and that it's "Nergal, the Demon Constantine and the First of the Fallen."

 

I hate comics sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone has missed the two most obvious choices.

I'm sure it is either John breaking the fourth wall and talking directly to us the readers or Andy Diggle is stealing Grant Morrison's shtick from Animal Man (which Steve Gerber actually used first in Man Thing).

After spending months at this site listening to us bemoan about the current state of Hellblazer and how we rarely ever actually liked the book, discussing how the book is stuck in a rut, Diggle is writing a story addressed to us, the Hellblazer readers, where he blames us for the fate of Hellblazer.

Either that, or John Constantine will meet Andy Diggle.

 

Or...I think it'll be the Golden Boy.

Considering that John knew the identity of the culprit, I don't see it working as a new character....unless it's one of those, "Oh my god! My arch-enemy from Glasgow 1972! I never expected to meet you again.", which is the last thing I ever want to see used in Hellblazer again....or Wolverine, etc. for that matter.

And, I'd rather it be the Golden Boy than the other choices (well, except the Mirror Master from the Rogues' Gallery, of course). I'm okay with it being Golden Boy, I guess, but Hellblazer needs to move away from all this heavy continuity, as we've said before. The book is eating itself alive.

The choice of John, himself, might be a nice move, depending on how it's played. An entire issue of self-flagellation, with John ranting at himself in the mirror.... Better than digging up over 20 year old characters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think him ranting at himself with the mirror would neat....but thats just me..especially if one version of him was like an older version all strewth's and squires...hehe ok and other contrasts too but none off the top of my head- other hten being smartly dressed? But now that he appears to do that again....

 

Trav

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Just re-read a great chunk of Diggle's run last night (technically this morning) and not only do I still think that Diggle's first two-parter is some of the best Hellblazer ever but I still think he got rid of something he needed/empowered something he didn't want when he went to Ravenscar - that drew him back to Ravenscar to begin with. When John was drowning, did something take an opportunity to hitch a lift? Did the little job he did for Pearly have deeper repercussions. I would be so pleased if Andy was bamboozling us with a long game with something we missed.

 

I don't think it would be a previously unmentioned character* and would be disappointed if it was (I doubt Diggle would do that, surely!).

 

 

 

(* by 'unmentioned', I mean with in Andy's run - not all Hellblazer ever.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think him ranting at himself with the mirror would neat....but thats just me..especially if one version of him was like an older version all strewth's and squires...hehe ok and other contrasts too but none off the top of my head- other hten being smartly dressed? But now that he appears to do that again....

 

Trav

Yea, well, Delano did it first. :boogie: No mirrors involved however.

 

hb93.jpg

 

(Sorry Ade.)

 

It is an interesting idea, that he might have put a sigil on himself having caught wind that this day was coming, or in defense of the Ravenscar mischief being wrought upon him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's Straffe's mom.

Death didn't stop her the first time.

 

But yeah rereading those cracking Diggle Ravenscar issues it must be the Golden boy.

 

We see the one armed shadow and in a flashback John's pyscho, possibly magic using doctor at Ravenscar was using John to commune with someone or something else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Ooh, I saw the shadow but assumed it was Astra - Does the Golden Boy only have one arm? I presume he lost it instead of Astra losing hers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks, now you've got a bad Men at Work song going thru my head.... :icon_gun_m:

:witchhunt: I'll have you know that that song is Ace, not "bad", you cretin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The one with the stick ?

Made of PLANT MATERIAL ??

I know that he's done it before, but is there any specific Swampie foreshadowing?

 

Is the reference to John's tree butt tattoo in Diggle's third issue more than just a continuity nod?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd forgotten Lord Burham out and out states that the Golden boy is actually the Laughing Magician.

Additionally John never works out (So far in my reread) who put the cloaking spell on him first.

Why did I think it was Map?

Those issues of The Laughing Magician are also littered with mirror references.

Mako only targets John after the soul cage thing at Ravenscar where presumably John Constantine from Earth 2 escaped.

How much one forgets reading the title monthly.

 

All said though I'm greatly enjoying my reread of Diggles run.

I'm genuinly sorry that he's had problems on the title.

Those bullies at Vertigo always taking his lunch money.

If it ends strongly, it'll be up there with Jenkins/Carey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...