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A. Heathen

The Unwritten

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Nope. He was just annoyed it wasn't 1890 anymore. Unlike a lot of other fantasy writers, Tolkein was hardly pro Nazi.

 

No. We were talking about Wyndham Lewis now, when I made that remark about being an actual fascist.

 

I don't know that a lot of fantasy authors were pro-Nazi either.

Dunsany was the same as Tolkien.

Same with Arthur Machen.

C.S. Lewis wasn't pro-Nazi either.

A lot of them were just Old Conservatives, who were opposed to industrialization and the technological society, and progress, and science over The Church (or, at least, religion).

 

There are also some obscure, earlier books mainly about Atlantis that are proto-Nazi.

You have The Coming Race, which was really sci-fi, that was a big influence on what became Nazism.

 

Poul Anderson and his ilk, yeah. They came along later and joined up with that "pseudo-libertarian, but it's really crypto-fascism" garbage.

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I meant "his mate Lewis" as in Tolkein's fellow Oxford lecturer and Inkling CS Lewis.

(Though I actually rather like Wyndham Lewis. The fact that he was a nazi doesn't make his writing any less impressive. He's hardly the only A list anglophone twentieth century poet who was a nazi sympathiser either: just look at William Butler Yeats...)

 

Anderson's libertarianism is less obtrusively obnoxious than the likes of Heinlein, and more present in his SF than his fantasy (for which, however wonderful The Broken Sword is, he remains far less known than for his SF). It's also worth remembering how Holger Carlson comes to get banished into the Carolingian stories in Three Hearts And Three Lions. There were plenty of right leaning authors of Anderson's generation who weren't having the Nazis at all.

 

It was more recent fantasy writers I was mainly thinking of than the old guys like Dunsany (though a case could probably be made for Robert Lindsay's protagonist's uber Darwinist ascension into a superman in A Voyage To Arcturus, and some of the Conan stories). It's something that's really started to come into the field in a big way since the '60s. Just look at some of the repulsive dreck people like John Norman and Robert Adams have published.

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Oh, you confused me, because I don't consider C.S. Lewis to be "mad".

I have a lot of time for Lewis' Space Saga Trilogy, and I'll always have a soft spot for at least The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe (if not the Narnia books that followed). Plus, as much as I hate a lot of The Screwtape Letters, and it's unredeemably flawed with all the religious/conservative moralizing, there are still sections of that book that hold up...Lewis' description of Hell, for example (based on a section of Lindsay's A Voyage to Arcturus, even).

 

I'm not judging Wyndham Lewis' writing based on his politics either. Just saying that his personality was more than a bit nuts.

I'm a strong fan of W.B. Yeats' writing.

 

I'm also not saying "Right-Wing" equals "closet Nazi" either. I'm pointing specifically to those people who claimed they were "libertarians", yet they spent their time promoting openly fascist ideology and hiding it behind "Oh, we're for freedom. We're against Communism, aren't we? wink, wink, nudge, nudge".

As reprehensible as I find Ayn Rand's politics, for example, she wasn't pro-Nazi.

There's just a stand of quasi-liberarian thinking that's really crypto-fascism (Glenn Beck is holding that torch alive today), not saying that Libertarians are a bunch of fascists in disguise.

 

As far as the more contemporary fantasy, they just claim that they're basing their work on Nietzsche though.

Which, to be fair, you can't lump all references to Nietzsche and ubermensch into Nazism.

After all, a lot of people made a lot of good individualist, anti-fascism/collectivism work based around Nietzsche and the concept of an "overman" (thinking of Herman Hesse, off the top of my head).

Nietzsche just based his work on stealing from Max Stirner, and you can get the ideas without all the reactionary pro-aristocracy message from Stirner.

 

David (not Robert) Lindsay's work was based on Gnosticism, by the way.

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A nice interview with Mike Carey. To no surprise, it came down to him dropping either X-Men: Legacy or Unwritten. He chose wisely.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=40298

 

Also, he has a mini-series coming up, with Tim Bradstreet & Thomas Jane, called Lycan.

It's a werewolf story set against a historical backdrop," he said. "It's a time before the Napoleonic Wars when Britain and France are very wary of each other and it's set on a remote Scottish island, which is infested with Werewolves. It starts with a ship crash-landing off the coast of this island with its cargo hold full of tigers. … We definitely needed to do tigers vs. werewolves at some point. It's a tragic love story in a way. One of the guys on the boat has a history with the werewolves and there are some very cool reveals. Gorgeous art, it was a fun project."

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Now that I know he had a choice, I sort of wish he would've stuck with X-Men... :icon_wink:

He wrote X-Men for a hell of a long time though. Longer than I ever expected.

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We definitely needed to do tigers vs. werewolves at some point.

SOLD!

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But . . . we are all upset that it isn't 1890 anymore, aren't we?.

 

Sometimes you guys confuse me with your little jokes you know, it is almost as if you are morally opposed to law and order and everyone being happy in their places.

 

emo_boogie.gif

 

Seriously for a moment though, for all that tosser Godwin thinks otherwise, even the Nazis were not "Nazis" to begin with, but they were nazis and it would have been fair dealing to accuse them of it.

 

Hitler didn't come out and say "Right, hands up all of you who want to incinerate all compassion and tolerance along with all the oiks that oppose us".

 

 

On the other hand, you can look at peoples opinions, Glen Beck shall we say, and know, just fucking KNOW, that this man in 1933, would have been itching to get his ss uniform.That man, translated with opinions but not knowledge intact, to 1933 USA, and no knowledge of the future?. Member of the Friends of New Germany.

 

Here comes one of those rare occasions when I have an opinion. :tongue:

 

Godwin can suck my socialist nob, his law is bullshit, and you can in fact call people nazis based on their attitudes. Just as you can look at other people and know that while they were conservative, they lack that certain something.

 

Lewis and Tolkien were not even proto-nazis. You can want people to obey the law, and criminals punished, and property rights respected without you get a National Socialist badge number.

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I like to study the people you guys know and talk about, that mean nothing to me, so I often have a quick google about your posts.

 

This bloke

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wyndham_Lewis_photo_by_George_Charles_Beresford_1913.jpg

 

bears an uncanny likeness to this bloke.

 

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Steve_Buscemi_%281996%29.jpg

 

:tongue:

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Oh, and why I opened the thread ( I have avoided it because of the fear I would spoil the comic for myself ) was to say

 

[ Spoiler : (a) How sad that they spoilt their otherwise excellent "Englishmen writing Australian slang" hit rate by having some thug say "True Blue" with a seemingly straight face. Never mind, they do have quite a few other nice lines from their aussies in this issue. I wonder if they have a tame one in their neighbourhood they ask for tips?.

 

(b) Is that supposed to be Alan Moore?. ]

 

emo_boogie.gif

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No. I wouldn't say so.

Anymore than you can say Alan Moore and Charles Manson are spitting images of each other.

It's just a certain look that tends to go with a certain stereotypical idea about certain people.

"They're probably mad. Into some strange esoteric stuff. And, might just be cult leaders."

You can mix and match people with a look like that based on the above three choices, and see how many match.

Like, Moore probably fits #1 and fits #2, but is not #3.

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Comics nerds :icon_rolleyes:

Man With Beard must be Alan Moore.

Man WIth Bald Head must be Grant Morrison.

Man With Goth Chicks must be Nel Gaiman.

 

What other area of interest has such a restrictive field of vision?

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Well, I don't know about all that, but

 

"Man, tall, mystic, with beard and lowering brows and a poetic line of crazy talk, and a snake goddess wrapped around his shoulders"

 

Maybe it is just me being a nerd?.

 

:tongue:

 

I don't mind the charge, if not guilty of this exactly, am guilty of other things, so must be punished.

 

emo_boogie.gif

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Doesn't Warren Ellis have Goth Chicks as well?

 

I believe he has smart phones.

 

Man with Cell Phone, must be Warren Ellis.

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OH, well, Unwritten continues to be the best comic, nothing to see here folks, move on . . . BARON MUNCHAUSEN FOR THE GOD-DAMNED WIN !.

 

He rocks.

 

GREAT ISSUE ! ! ! ! ! !.

 

Best comic series ever?.

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The scene with the horse and the feathers was really the most funny scene in any comic book for all of 2012.

 

The look on the horses face, the explaination of how the Baron would have preferred to go about it if he had time, the matter-of-factness with which he proposed it . . . genius.

 

The art too, man, that is why I buy these funny books!.

 

Polarbear flavoured nightmare tonight, I expect. :ohmy:

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The Unwritten #44-This was a really good issue. The best one since the big Leviathan (redundant?) story.

I hate to say it, but Unwritten lost my interest for a time after that story. I was starting to wonder if maybe the book was into a corner and didn't really have many places left to go. But, it seems to be picking up again.

I love the use of Dingo (the animal, but capitalized!), and the Greek mythology in this month's issue.

Back near the top of my favourites list for this title.

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yeah, it was really really corny, but i enjoyed this most recent issue more than most since the beginning of the year, since they were doubling up on issues per month. it was a fun issue.

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I agree that's it nice to see that Carey was just setting stuff up, rather than leaving the title ticking over quietly as well. Mind you, that shouldn't come as a surprise, should it? He's always been a writer who likes his plots to build steadily...

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Yeah this was a real good issue. Does it help the comic more if i subscribe to it? I want to but it's mad expensive considering how much time I'll get out of it

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