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Shawn

Rare Cuts

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Shawn    297

I just read "Rare Cuts." This was very good. Loved David Lloyd's art.

 

My question is what is with the Margert Thatcher bashing?

Having been too young and naive during this time in history I do not know what went on?

I am hoping some of you, especially those in the UK, can elaborate on the historical context of the UK at time of these comics.

 

Thank you.

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A. Heathen    1,171

You have to remember that the UK is not the US and a right-wing autocratic government will always be unpopular in the end. Because it is easier to share reasources and wealth.

 

They were wholesale supportive of big business and Victorian Values, which were all well and good in Victorian times when hardly anyone knew any better, and altruistic People With Money really did look after their people.

 

But their main targets where the Unions and "loony lefties" - the latter a made-up concept that Senator McCarthy dwelt upon in the Fifties. It was a clear case of exaggerating the extremes to destabilise the predominant socialists.

On the one hand "THEY ARE GIVING MONEY TO BLACK LESBIAN ARTS GROUPS"

on the other "We want the NHS to become privatised !"

 

They encouraged people to look after themselves first and let other people make their own arrangements. This generated a ME ME ME mentality - since if Yuppie A pays only for their own health and social care, they save money ...

does this sound like any other country where socialism is a bad word ?

 

(To be fair, in the states, far more people live outside of the government's domain and don't really have to worry about governments strip-mining their resources.)

 

And Margaret Thatcher was the arrogant, vindictive, nasty poster child of the Conservative Government.

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Shawn    297

It sounds like a very bad case of "the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer" and have it stuck in and broken off and those low on the totem pole get it.

 

Thanks Adrian.

 

 

Anyone else?

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A. Heathen    1,171

To be fair, it was more like "the rich get richer, the poor stay where they were, the working class get told to shut up, the middle class get told they are better off without the poor and the working class".

 

Some of those middle class types are now doing very working class things.

Just shows how wrong it all was.

 

The rich are definitely richer (as are some champagne "socialists", but that's a whole different branch of conservatism).

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Shawn    297
To be fair, it was more like "the rich get richer, the poor stay where they were, the working class get told to shut up, the middle class get told they are better off without the poor and the working class".

 

Some of those middle class types are now doing very working class things.

Just shows how wrong it all was.

 

The rich are definitely richer (as are some champagne "socialists", but that's a whole different branch of conservatism).

That's what I wanted to say, justed did not know how exactly. You do it oh so well!

 

And I am guessing with J.C. being a left-winger(I think I read somewhere) he definetly did not approve of Thatcher and her parties policies.

 

Wasn't there something about the government wanting concetration camps for people with AIDS?

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I just read "Rare Cuts." This was very good. Loved David Lloyd's art.

 

My question is what is with the Margert Thatcher bashing?

Having been too young and naive during this time in history I do not know what went on?

I am hoping some of you, especially those in the UK, can elaborate on the historical context of the UK at time of these comics.

 

Thank you.

 

Take your pick from these....

 

Poll tax(which she started off as a "test" in Scotland, thank fuck she never sanctioned tests for nuclear weapons), miners strikes, more unemployed people than under Callaghan, crushing traditional industries like steel, the sinking of the Belgrano when it was sailing away from the conflict area, the Falklands War, crushing the Trade Unions, etc etc

 

Oh and this little ditty...""There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then to look after our neighbour"....that one can be best interpreted as "As long as i'm alright Jack, fuck everyone else"

 

Thatcher sanctioned the use of riot police to intimidate and attack people striking for better rates of pay, she also removed the unions so people were forced to accept what they were being given and go back to work. she removed many industries that were costing the government money so ultimately that meant people losing their jobs and deregulating public-owned utilities and services like British Telecom and British Gas and privatising them so that meant that fatcats could hike up their prices to use these services they now owned and line their own fucking pockets! don't believe me?, then go look up the name Geoffrey Robinson and find out for yourself

 

there was also a lot of unemployment around that time as well, people were barely scraping by on the social security money they were getting, she never seemed to truly give a shit about the people who were out of work, her government was only ever about removing anyone opposing her decisions and making the rich get richer by reducing income tax for the people earning higher incomes and then on top of that, she goes and introduces the poll tax, a tax that was last imposed way back in the fucking Dark Ages!, that one explained a lot about her mentality, i was surprised she didn't impose decisions to start beheading people in the Tower Of London or hanging people at Traitor's Gate sometimes, not only content with making the working classes pay income taxes that continued to rise every single year, she goes and introduces another tax as well....

 

John Major was only voted into power because people had gotten tired of Thatcher and Tony Blair only got voted in because people were tired of Britain being ruled by Conservatives for the best part of 20 years, and it doesn't matter who got voted in either because its the same set of rules that are applied but under a different coloured banner...

 

She was a fucking [over-used word] and you know of the term "to dance on someone's grave", they'll be a fucking hoe-down on her grave when the bitch bites the bullet...

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Kris    0

Take your pick from these....

 

Poll tax(which she started off as a "test" in Scotland, thank fuck she never sanctioned tests for nuclear weapons), miners strikes, more unemployed people than under Callaghan, crushing traditional industries like steel, the sinking of the Belgrano when it was sailing away from the conflict area, the Falklands War, crushing the Trade Unions, etc etc

 

Oh and this little ditty...""There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then to look after our neighbour"....that one can be best interpreted as "As long as i'm alright Jack, fuck everyone else"

 

Thatcher sanctioned the use of riot police to intimidate and attack people striking for better rates of pay, she also removed the unions so people were forced to accept what they were being given and go back to work. she removed many industries that were costing the government money so ultimately that meant people losing their jobs and deregulating public-owned utilities and services like British Telecom and British Gas and privatising them so that meant that fatcats could hike up their prices to use these services they now owned and line their own fucking pockets! don't believe me?, then go look up the name Geoffrey Robinson and find out for yourself

 

there was also a lot of unemployment around that time as well, people were barely scraping by on the social security money they were getting, she never seemed to truly give a shit about the people who were out of work, her government was only ever about removing anyone opposing her decisions and making the rich get richer by reducing income tax for the people earning higher incomes and then on top of that, she goes and introduces the poll tax, a tax that was last imposed way back in the fucking Dark Ages!, that one explained a lot about her mentality, i was surprised she didn't impose decisions to start beheading people in the Tower Of London or hanging people at Traitor's Gate sometimes, not only content with making the working classes pay income taxes that continued to rise every single year, she goes and introduces another tax as well....

 

John Major was only voted into power because people had gotten tired of Thatcher and Tony Blair only got voted in because people were tired of Britain being ruled by Conservatives for the best part of 20 years, and it doesn't matter who got voted in either because its the same set of rules that are applied but under a different coloured banner...

 

She was a fucking [over-used word] and you know of the term "to dance on someone's grave", they'll be a fucking hoe-down on her grave when the bitch bites the bullet...

 

 

 

(Sorry about including this again, me forgot to sign in)

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Christian    805

Talkinghead-I'm not sure if you're American or not, but maybe you might have a better understanding of Thatcher in the context of the Reagan administration in America.

I still swear it was a conspiracy that Thatcher and Reagan were in office at the same damn time!!! Especially the timing of the administration, in the period of serious Soviet problems, leading to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

It was like an attempt to recreate the world using "voodoo economics"....Yep! The more you give to the richest sector, the more they're going to give to the rest of us! That's historically accurate, eh?!

 

Hey, Kris! Why aren't you out dancing with me on Reagan's grave right now?! It'll help pass the time for Thatcher's death.

 

Talking-Yes, J.C. is pretty well a Socialist, so obviously he loathed the fucking ultra-Right Wing govts., the same way that us Left-Wingers on the Forum loathe Thatcher and Reagan!

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Kris    0
Hey, Kris! Why aren't you out dancing with me on Reagan's grave right now?! It'll help pass the time for Thatcher's death.

 

I don't know about you man but i reckon that Alzheimer's Disease put Reagan's I.Q up by a few points.

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Christian    805

:lol: -Good one!

I love making fun of Reagan! He must be mocked forever, so that no one will ever forget and make the same mistakes!

OK...so W. Bush is pretty much the worst of Reagan and Nixon combined.... :icon_frown:

It still boggles my mind that a man who was quite obviously insane was able to stay in office for 8 fucking years!!! What is wrong with this picture?!?!

Bush is evil and sick, Nixon was a criminal, Ford was a half-wit, etc. They have all had their major problems....But none of them was actually psychotic! I just don't understand it! I don't understand how very few people were able to see this! He should've been in a sanitarium, not the highest office of the most militarily powerful nation on Earth!!!

I still look back and wonder how the hell that launch button for the nukes didn't get pressed.....

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TheMojoPin    0

Bad as Bush II is, he doesn't even come close to Nixon.

 

Nobody has.

 

The man was pure evil/insanity.

 

America is the mess it is today solely because of him.

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Kris    0
:lol: -Good one!

I love making fun of Reagan! He must be mocked forever, so that no one will ever forget and make the same mistakes!

OK...so W. Bush is pretty much the worst of Reagan and Nixon combined.... :icon_frown:

It still boggles my mind that a man who was quite obviously insane was able to stay in office for 8 fucking years!!! What is wrong with this picture?!?!

Bush is evil and sick, Nixon was a criminal, Ford was a half-wit, etc. They have all had their major problems....But none of them was actually psychotic! I just don't understand it! I don't understand how very few people were able to see this! He should've been in a sanitarium, not the highest office of the most militarily powerful nation on Earth!!!

I still look back and wonder how the hell that launch button for the nukes didn't get pressed.....

 

You post with an awful lot of exclamation marks my friend.

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Shawn    297

I figured her and Reagan were like two peas in a pod.

 

And yes I am American.

 

I am unsure where I fall in the political spectrum, maybe you guys could help

 

 

I believe the following:

Although atheist, religion is fine as long it is not influenced by the government and does not rule people's lives and think for them.

 

Very much against the death penalty.

 

No taxation without representation. Something America has had a big problem with.

 

Justice for all, or justice for none.

 

Least amount of government interfernce in people's lives. They work for us. Not the other way around. And I can think and make judges for myself.

 

People should be judged by their character not what race, religion, sex, etc.

 

Here in America we need tighter borders. Immigrants can come over, the more the merrier, but do it legally.

 

 

I very much believe in following the Constitution unless, we the people decide to change it.

 

We should not be the world's police, firefighters, bank, etc. unless asked.

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Christian    805

Thank you, thank you!

 

Blaming the state of America today on Nixon is like saying it is the owner of G.M.s fault that the environment is fucked up. Did the owner of G.M. do anything to help the state of the environment? Hell, no!!!!!!(for Kris) But, can you lay the blame on ONE person? Also, no.

The founding of America with laws to protect the "propertied classes" could be considered the beginning of bad things. Not to mention slavery. Or the changing of the Constitution to insure that Christian principles would be preserved, even though that was exactly the opposite of what the "founding fathers" (hate that phrase!) wanted.

You can go back to Roosevelt and his Imperial expansions, or Wilson and his idealism that God had given America "divine providence" to be "The New Rome" (not his term, applied later).

Moving on, I'd say the beginning of the state of America began with the use of the Atomic Bomb, the full-time war economy after W.W.II, and the creation of a "Cold War".

Also remember, Nixon did not do anything new! He was continuing a long tradition. He didn't start the Vietnam War, he just lied about attempting to end it. He didn't create Presidential fraud, he was just the man who got caught in his criminal negligence. He didn't create the CIA.

In fact, Nixon actually did some good, indirectly, by making the country actually think for a few minutes about what direction America should move in! Indisputible proof of the corruption inherent in the govt.

He didn't screw up the economy to the point that America has become the largest DEBTOR nation (although he did certianly help with his increasing expenditures for the Vietnam War, which led to the creation of a "floating currencies").

He didn't create a few TRILLION dollar deficit. He didn't start a "Patriot Act". He didn't use a national tragedy to start a full-scale (instead of covert) Imperialist venture against the world.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not standing up for Nixon. I hate Nixon! He's scum and evil! But, he's only one cog on a long line.

 

EDITS:Or, were you referring directly to Nixon's involvment with Iraq? In that case, I'd say it was something that was going to happen irregardless of who was in the White House. Also, remember Hussein didn't come into power until 1979.

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Josh    6
Anyone else?

Yeah: I'll agree with all folks who said Thatcher was the British Reagan. The two had similar policies and their two adminstrations got along very well.

 

I'm told she was known as "Thatcher the milk-snatcher" for ending a free food program for kids. That should give a little taste of what she was about.

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Mark    333

An illustrative anecdote: about 3 years ago now, Thatcher's health deteriorated to the point where she was advised by doctors to cease making public speeches and appearances. I saw this being reported on the news in a TV shop window while out shopping, and the 'tribute'-style presentation made me assume she was dead. I went through the rest of the day on a little cloud of joy, and was genuinely gutted to discover the truth when I saw the news that evening.

 

Precisely why I felt this way has been largely covered in the posts above.

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Kris    0

I remember Chris Morris made a funny joke out of that incident where she collapsed at some speech in the Drugs section of his Brass Eye TV series....

 

"Most of the time, even our own leaders are drugging themselves senseless"

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Josh    6
(To be fair, in the states, far more people live outside of the government's domain and don't really have to worry about governments strip-mining their resources.)

Then things in Britain must have been really bad after Thatcher. It wasn't until Reagan became president that we had large numbers of visibly homeless people in every American city, due almost entirely to program cuts and eliminations that Reagan pushed through Congress in his first year. Before that, only New York was reputed to have a visible community of homeless people.

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TheMojoPin    0
EDITS:Or, were you referring directly to Nixon's involvment with Iraq? In that case, I'd say it was something that was going to happen irregardless of who was in the White House. Also, remember Hussein didn't come into power until 1979.

 

No, I was referring to him being an all-around mad, paranoid bastard who had no problem escalating the Vietnam conflict to pseudo-genocidal levels into other countries and went FAR beyond the "norm" when it comes to violating the trust of the American people in its government. It wasn't just that he got caught...he got caught because what he tried to pull was SO outrageous.

 

And so what if Nixon didn't create the CIA? You say it as if whomever did did a bad thing. They've got their share of faults and crimes, but a blanket "CIA = bad" statement is more than just a wee bit oversimplified. Of course, I'm probably biased, but still...this notion of federal agencies as supervillain-esque boogeymen strikes me as odd.

 

And DC had a huge homeless probalem in the 70's and 80's that likely rivaled NYC's, sadly.

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Shawn    297

Well, after reading the comments, it is no wonder writers such as Delano, Moore, Morrison, and Ennis write about Thatcher with such hatred. With Constantine being a lefty he became a good mouthpiece against the policies in Britain at the time.

 

Thank you to all who answered a question for this silly Yank.

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Christian    805

So, Mojo....obviously you find no problem with the KGB either, correct?

No, comparing the two isn't quite fair, as the KGB usually had the good sense to keep their business to Soviet satellites, and away from the Mafia and drug cartels....but still, ultra-secret organizations usually aren't the best thing to have operating in any society!

I don't have trouble with any federal agencies, in general. I am a believer in BIGGER govt., not less govt. That govt. just needs to work FOR the people, not vice-versa, or outside of our society.

 

Yes, America has always had a homeless problem, but it did not reach the horrible levels until Reagan, as Josh stated. Vietnam vets with drug addictions (That Golden Triangle sells it CHEAP, baby!) or abandonded by the govt. were another reason for visible increases in homelessness.

Although, Josh, DC did also have a severe number of homeless before Reagan also.

 

Once again, you're making it sound like Nixon had some idea to increase the Vietnam war effort so horribly and then just went about doing so. Nixon was just the president, it's not like they have any real power! Those increases were obviously already planned long before Nixon got into office, Nixon was just the puppet who was willing to go along with those plans. It's the Executive Branch, the arms makers, the military, the CIA....all these groups are involved in official policy. The President isn't an all-powerful dictator, as much as Bush wants to make you think he is!

So, Nixon was so bad, what about Johnson then? Wouldn't he be just as evil as just as much THE reason why America is why it is today?!

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Shawn    297

It seems no matter who is in charge the power of it does indeed corrupt absolutely.

 

Also, none of them; Reagan, Nixon, Bush, Clinton, Thatcher, etc. would not be in power if "we the people" didn't put them there. We gave them the authority. So what does that say about us if these are the types of people we are putting in charge of us?

We could, if we really wanted to, try to put someone better, different in charge. But I feel the power of it would ultimately have the same effect.

 

We have no one to blame but ourselves.

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