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JC in the DC

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I was just thinking that Hellblazer has made its distinction from the DC universe and managed to sidestep any banner wide events in said universe. Nonetheless, it would be cool to see John drop back into Gotham to take the piss out of Batman.

I cant be the only one that would get a kick out a well written one shot or mini series involving some of the mainstream superheroes in the DC universe?

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While I think it's a good idea for 'Hellblazer' to be cut off from the mainstream DC-Universe, I DID enjoy the few times Constantine and Batman met. And I could certainly enjoy a story where Constantine outsmarts Batman.

 

Also, I wouldn't mind Constantine being involved more with other characters from the old classic Vertigo-comics. Carey used Swamp Thing for a few issues and Milligan had some 'Shade'-characters for a small cameo, but they were notable exceptions.

I would like to see more of that.

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I sincerely hope they never bring superheroes into Hellblazer.

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I agree.

I wouldn't mind it if John showed up in the DCU for appearances. It's not like it hurts anything.

But, I'd rather see JC kept to mystical avenues of the DCU, if he's going to interact with DCers.

 

I remember in the early-90s when Marvel was so guest star crazy and every book had to feature Wolverine, Punisher, or Sabretooth at some point.

It really hurt the feel and flow of books like Dr. Strange or more horror oriented books to have Wolverine show up for a month or two.

There's just a huge disconnect between Dr. Strange's world and Wolverine's world, and it's best to play to strengths and not shoehorn.

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I disagree. I actually liked all the whinging self pity in the Fear Machine about how the superheroes are effectively in a different universe to scum like Constantine, even when they're not. That was something that came through in all the Swamp Thing stuff, along with the Delano run and the first chunk of Ennis. I've never thought that reducing a writer's options makes for better stories (and before anybody says anything, yes I have read oulipo stuff and that's a different case as those restrictions are self imposed).

It's notable that even after the Vertigo stuff was parted off, Gaiman still got to use DCU characters in the Sandman if he wanted. I've no idea why Hellblazer never got the same courtesies apart from the occasional Phantom Stranger, Etrigan or Zatanna cameo.

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I've always enjoyed John's adventures int he DCU. I could stand to see a smartly written one shot or something featuring John and say, Etrigan and/or Batman and such.

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You got me all wrong--I'm not suggesting that JC get pimped out like Wolverine or Spider-Man... and I enjoy that JC hellblazer is separate from the superhero DC universe for the most part. i think that is done well. Just the same, it would be cool to see him reckoning with the likes of The Joker? I say this as a man who grew up strictly Marvel

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I disagree. I actually liked all the whinging self pity in the Fear Machine about how the superheroes are effectively in a different universe to scum like Constantine, even when they're not. That was something that came through in all the Swamp Thing stuff, along with the Delano run and the first chunk of Ennis. I've never thought that reducing a writer's options makes for better stories (and before anybody says anything, yes I have read oulipo stuff and that's a different case as those restrictions are self imposed).

It's notable that even after the Vertigo stuff was parted off, Gaiman still got to use DCU characters in the Sandman if he wanted. I've no idea why Hellblazer never got the same courtesies apart from the occasional Phantom Stranger, Etrigan or Zatanna cameo.

 

I'm with you on creative control.

I don't think editors should really be making demands about what character can and cannot be used.

The examples I gave I'm sure were editorially mandated uses of uber-popular superheroes in books to try to raise sales figures, no matter how it hurt the flow of the writers own stories. I don't think Roy Thomas was thrilled to write a Wolverine team-up with Dr. Strange.

I guess I'm thinking of it in the opposite of your views, that editors might start wanting to see Superman in Hellblazer for the month because it might help sales, or editors might want to see John's reaction to "Blackest Night".

That's just what I want to see avoided.

That's not really the point of this thread at all. That's just my own thought process.

 

I do like that Hellblazer's universe is a mirror of our own world though.

Regardless of how hard the early-90s tried, I still think it's hard to paint a world darkly when you have Superman and Green Lantern flying around New York City in the background. It's jarring.

 

What DCU characters did Gaiman use in Sandman after the editorial mandate?

The only thing I remember was the funeral issues, but I'd say that was different because it took place in the Dream dimension which is a cross-roads of multiverses and realities.

Hellblazer's world still exists as part of the DC multiverse, as far as I'm aware. Just a seperate universe.

Other than that, the only characters I can think of are people like Prez, who was given the Vertigo reimagination treament and is therefore as much a part of the Vertigo universe as someone like Phantom Stranger.

Besides which, some characters do cross over, as with the Phantom Stranger or Swamp Thing and Animal Man who are part of the DCU as well.

John Constantine showed up in an issue of Challengers of the Unknown after the editorial mandate.

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I was thinking of the funeral issues. Then there's the whole "Fury goes raving mad" thing...

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Retroactive continuity.

 

I am sure that Prof. Willecome will be along shortly to address the salient points of this, but meanwhile can anybody provide information about the Batman retcon (presumably) that involves Zatanna?

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Retroactive continuity.

 

I am sure that Prof. Willecome will be along shortly to address the salient points of this, but meanwhile can anybody provide information about the Batman retcon (presumably) that involves Zatanna?

 

If i remember correctly, it followed Dini's set up in this "Dini-verse" that he created for Batman/Superman/Justice League Animated series.

 

1.) Bruce learned all of his escape artist tricks from none other than Giovanni Zatara. And a young handsome Bruce Wayne meets a young impressionable teenage Zatanna. But the romance gets tabled since Bruce needs to go off and do his "I am the night" schtick.

 

2.) Bruce and "Zee" as she is affectionately called go through their careers without much said or stated, even though they know the truth about each other. It all comes to head during some JLA storyline where Zee mindwipes a bunch of villains and including Batman since he was against the policy of mindwiping on moral grounds. Its revealed that Zatanna has been pulling this trick for years, and she may in fact be the reason why Catwoman reformed.

 

3.) Bruce eventually finds out what happened (World's Greatest Detective anyone?) and how she and a large chunk of the JLA actually Voted to have it done. So there's a feud on....

 

4.) ...which of course is eventually called off. Comic Book logic 101: every trauma is an opportunity for people to get closer. So up to the Batman RIP storyline, people start getting hints and pieces and bits of information. Bruce gets a supermodel girlfriend who runs her on African country (yeah, i don't understand this part) and it becomes a topic amongst Batman's Triumvirate: Catwoman, Talia, and now Zatanna.

 

There's apparently a scene where Catwoman dismisses the supermodel as a fling (its Bruce Wayne after all) and Talia as an impossibility. The only person she acknowledges "getting her claws into Bruce" is the girl in the fishnet stockings. For her part, Zatanna goes through the "why it didn't work out" thing with Bruce (he's married to his job first) and "gives way" to Catwoman's claim in another scene........and yet..

 

I think perhaps it was Grant Morrison who commented that Batman's somehow ended up with three women who fill up different aspects in his life.

 

Catwoman's the troublesome girl you chase.

Talia's the obsessive psycho.

And Zatanna's all the good that Bruce could have had - all that's magical about the world. And therefore it makes her completely unattainable.

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Sorry, Tom, I thought you just hadn't seen that acronymn before. Stranger things have happened, after all...

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hmmm, thanks. Now i understand 'retcon'. Which other "con"s should i be aware of? aside from the con in "con-vention".

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