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Shawn

THOR!

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"Isn't going to be read" might be putting it too harshly. "Will be read less" is more accurate. Otherwise, I agree with your point. Bookstores have changed significally the last 10-20, as franchise chains have taken a steadily-increasing share of the market. They make a point of offering bestsellers cheaply, since that is the main cash cow. More marginal books are relegated more to the back shelves, or in many cases, to storages, where they can be ordered. (It's basically the same development as movie theatres: Blockbusters everywhere, marginal films in specialized theatres or unavailable) To me, this is yet another argument that the free market model has some severe limitations when it comes to preserving and advancing culture.

 

If there is one thing my country has done that I'm proud of, it's making it illegal, by law, to sell books under the price set by publishers. It has been researched that this has indeed lead to dutch publishers using the extra money they make from selling bestsellers at a high pricepoint to publish more fringe material like poetry, translations of classic text or even graphic novels. Also, books fall under the lower 6% VAT rather than the 19% VAT on everything else (except food and drink, which also has a 6% levy). It's one of the things I'm truly worried about a rightwing government fucking up if it gets into power.

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I see that is a very positive thing, the lower tax on books. And also a prime target for Rightwing making a sacrifice of it to their business mates of course.

 

How does that law handle Internet sales?. Is it only a thing that is imposed on books actually published in the Netherlands?.

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That really does look ludicrously awful. This combined with the 'now in 3D!' news doesn't bode well for the movie.

 

Still. Too early to be meting out judgments. It's just a picture.

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I have no idea how this will look when on film. hopefully better than it does in that picture. Still that Odin outfit is very, VERY Jack Kirby. which is awesome in itself.

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Jack Kirby in 3D !

 

Who is doing them harsh colours though?. If they did it in a "hep cat" groovy style like Kirby in New Gods, and pulled it off, it would be a bravo performance.

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I can see they've not let themselves be overly inspired by viking aesthetics.

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Well why would they be, when this isn't actually an adaptation of the original Norse Thor mythology, but of the resplendently-inauthentic Jack Kirby version?

 

As a huge admirer of Kirby's work - most significant artist in the history of comic books, and all that - I'm finding myself pleasantly-surprised by how much of his unique aesthetic appears to be making it into this film. Yes, a lot of the sets and costumes are looking quite garish and plasticky in these photos, but as everyone and his dog has pointed out, that's because what looks good properly-lit and shot through a film camera doesn't necessarily look any good at all in still photographs, particularly when you're working towards such an obviously-stylised visual aesthetic as they are here. The tiny handful of properly-lit pictures which have made it out so far look a lot better, which is encouraging.

 

It's too early to be wildly enthused or bitter about this one, really. From what we've been shown so far, it's at least going to be very different from the recent crop of superhero films, which is surely preferable to the "that'll do" mediocrity of Iron Man 2.

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Well why would they be, when this isn't actually an adaptation of the original Norse Thor mythology, but of the resplendently-inauthentic Jack Kirby version?

You have a point. I'm just slightly miffed that noone's made a decent filmatic adaptation of norse mythology yet, even though it's so obviously filmable. (The closest so far is actually the very surreal Valhalla Rising) Then again, seeing what they do to Greek mythology, I should possibly count myself lucky.

And then again (again), it wouldn't be a superhero movie.

 

So I'm just spouting nonsense really.

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No, I think we have a meeting of the minds at least, Red.

 

Being given three nephews to attend to, I have recently sat through Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief, I was a restless auditor.

I ground my teeth in silent fury at the absolutely needless and puerile "reworkings" of the various perfectly exciting original characters and of the responsibilities of the various gods, demi gods and others from the myths . . . but for my own "personal Goddess" Athena Parthenos to suffer being not only no longer the Acme of Purity, but to have been degraded to consort with a mere mortal, and portrayed to have given birth to a daughter-half-human, but then simply supposed to abandon Her responsibility to the child of her body . . . . .

:witchhunt:

FUCK !

People have been turned into deer and torn apart by their own hunting dogs for way lesser crimes! and deservedly so.

 

 

America. Here is the thing. Your own concerns and triumphs are no mean feats, you are an inventive and kind of a noble minded people. Your stories need no gloss, good stories, many of them.

 

YOU DON'T HAVE TO RE-WORK ALL THE GLORIES OF ALL OTHER PEOPLES STORIES, EVER, TO FIT YOUR OWN ADOLESCENT MALL DWELLING FUCKING STEREOTYPES ! ! ! ! !.

 

What is wrong with just making a well funded movie with top stars, of the various straight myths?. They have some lasting power that isn't actually sourced in "Wow, dude, that chick has snakes for hair, and tight Calvin Kleins !"

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YOU DON'T HAVE TO RE-WORK ALL THE GLORIES OF ALL OTHER PEOPLES STORIES, EVER, TO FIT YOUR OWN ADOLESCENT MALL DWELLING FUCKING STEREOTYPES !

 

 

You do realize that we (and by "we" I mean, more or less, all of humanity) have been stealing other peoples' myths and legends, reworking them, making them our own and otherwise messing them about in the name of a rippin' good yarn since we first started interacting with other cultures, yes? That's where the English got St. George from, just for a start, so it seems a bit late to start objecting to it now. Besides, it's not like the original stories don't still exist, and given the way Hollywood tends to work, the odds of us getting a "proper" Viking-myth film would almost certainly be increased if this film's a success.

 

You're welcome to dislike the results, obviously, but don't mistake that for an objection of principle. Jack Kirby (with, I'll grudgingly admit, a small amount of help from Stan Lee) took bits and pieces of Norse mythology and spun them into something entirely his own - something new, insane and marvellous, and as an artist he had every right to do so. It'd be nice (in a scarily-fascist way) if those freedoms could only be extended to artists and storytellers whose work we approved of, obviously, but since that's not feasible, we just have to take the rough with the smooth. And who knows, maybe this film will even turn out to be good? They're basing the visuals on the work of one of the 20th Century's most imaginative artists, after all...

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He might have went overboard with the push-ups and sit-ups and the pumping of THE IRON!

I'm not sure that's actually possible for this role.

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That's where the English got St. George from, just for a start, so it seems a bit late to start objecting to it now.

 

OHO!, now you add blasphemy to your other crimes, St George was ENGLISH I will have you know!.

 

:P

 

 

It makes it very difficult for me to have an angry rave Mark, when you will persist in popping helpings of reason all over the place!.

:boogie:

 

I agree with you of course ( grumble grumble ), except in this one small way. When we co-opted various myths and legends from J. Foreigner, to our British Heritage, we did it because we saw value to be added TO our lives, we borrowed more in a spirit of praise "Man, that is great, we must ever teach our Sons about Damon and Pythias, that there needs no embellishment, it is the pure quill".

 

The USA artists I am angry with do it the opposite way. They somehow believe that making Aphrodite a mall bunny, or Typhoon a Biker Thug, adds value to the ORIGINAL. And that would just be a momentary annoyance. The crime, the danger, is their cultural power, which is unfairly gained by the way.

They DESTROY cultures by doing this, it is a happy thought you have that this up coming Thor-tacular makes it more likely we will see a great and well funded movie of the myths, but I think you are being optimistic. The bad drives out the good in the very minds we ought to spend large sums cultivating, i.e. teenagers.

 

Sure, probably a hundred thousand kids , turned onto reading by Rowling, went on to read and enjoy her source books, i.e. Tom Browns Schooldays and the like. But 10 MILLION kids read Harry Potter.

 

I stand by my statement. USA, you don't have to re-work mankinds glories into crippled images of your own reflection. It is small of you to want to, Uncle Sugar.

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I agree with you of course ( grumble grumble ), except in this one small way. When we co-opted various myths and legends from J. Foreigner, to our British Heritage, we did it because we saw value to be added TO our lives, we borrowed more in a spirit of praise "Man, that is great, we must ever teach our Sons about Damon and Pythias, that there needs no embellishment, it is the pure quill".

 

The USA artists I am angry with do it the opposite way. They somehow believe that making Aphrodite a mall bunny, or Typhoon a Biker Thug, adds value to the ORIGINAL.

 

 

I just don't agree, I'm afraid - I think you're being absurdly-generous in your first assertion, and rather too harsh in your second. I don't think that the writer of the Percy Jackson books, or the makers of the film, thought for a second that they were creating something to supercede the myths it co-opts. I think their main goals were, respectively, to tell a good story and to make money. And while the latter motive seems to run counter to our idealized notion of what Pure Art 'should' be about, it's also been the prime mover behind plenty of the greatest works of art in the history of civilization, so I'm happy enough to disregard motive entirely and focus solely on whether or not the results are any good.

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At which point, having watched the steaming pile of ordure that is Percy Jackson the Heritage Thief you find yourself agreeing with me in that one instance?.

 

*Puts fingers in his ears* I am imagining the universe that has a Mark that says, "Well, only this once Tony, and just in a fit of camaraderie you understand".

 

There is something in what you are saying Mark though, and probably the interesting re-workings of myths by US artists out-weigh the painful debacles, and certainly their scope of endeavour would be drastically fore-shortened if they were not allowed to get their grubby paws on other peoples myths. [reluctant]I suppose given they come from all stocks, all myths are as much theirs to cherish or "trash" as their wit takes them, as they are ours to protect[/reluctant] I just seriously seriously dislike it when they have the temerity to re-word Jane Austin and then do so with base ineptitude and mall-rat lingo. I think they ought just write the whole movie in mall-rat in the first place, if that is what they want to end up with, and leave Ms Austin in peace.

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*Puts fingers in his ears* I am imagining the universe that has a Mark that says, "Well, only this once Tony, and just in a fit of camaraderie you understand".

 

Heh, maybe someday (it's happened before, and will doubtless happen again). But not, alas, this day - especially when you bring in something as splendid as Clueless, which I'd suggest is about as bad an example as you could possibly have chosen. Not only because I think it's a witty, fresh and imaginative reworking of Austen's story, but it also demonstrably had no negative impact on (and, indeed, was widely-regarded as a contributory factor in the success of) Douglas McGrath's thoroughly-faithful-to-the-source-material version of Emma which was released to considerable critical and popular acclaim precisely one year later. Which, incidentally, was originally going to be a modernised updating of the novel, until the producers found out that Clueless was already in development, and decided to go for a straight adaptation instead.

 

Err....sorry, but I think you rather shot your own argument in the foot there, eh*? :wink:

 

Of course, you're still welcome to dislike the film, but it'd be a bit of a shame - as I said, I think it's splendid. Charming, funny, smart and linguistically-inventive, and it did a fine job of introducing a huge audience of young people to a timeless story, simply by reworking it into a more recognizable, contemporary milieu and giving it new words. Which, going back to at least Chaucer and Shakespeare, is about as proud a literary tradition as one could hope to be a part of. The only real difference is that these days, there's a greater chance that at least some of the audience will also be turned onto the original text - I suspect that the percentage of the audience who were inspired to read Emma after watching Clueless is possibly rather higher than the percentage of contemporary attendees of Shakespeare's plays who went on to read Boccaccio, Plutarch et al.

 

By way of a conciliatory gesture, while I haven't seen Percy Jackson and don't plan to, I'm quite happy to take your word on its worthlessness as both entertainment and mythological adaptation. The trailer certainly didn't fill me with confidence, and it looks like very much the sort of film I tend to agree with you about.

 

 

 

*I know, making such a meal out of a single, slightly-poorly-chosen example was a bit of an (over-used word)'s trick. I just couldn't resist, and hope you'll forgive my self-indulgence.

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oh dear oh dear, Clueless had passed me by till this moment*, I actually never knew of its existence, my Jane Austin reference was entirely from whole cloth, I was reaching for the idea of something sacred we might share. As you say though, the existence of the sullied version not having deterred someone from making a pure one ( Which I did see, and liked inordinately ) has in fact peppered both my peds with pellets. I give you the laurel and limp with my thesis off stage. :tongue:

 

I don't know, I probably enjoy losing an argument with you morethan somewhat.

 

* I ought to go watch it on DVD now, if only to get grumpy/admire Ms Silverstone some more.

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I ought to go watch it on DVD now, if only to get grumpy/admire Ms Silverstone some more.

 

You should definitely watch it, Avaunt, it's really very good, and has stood the test of time as a very successful modernization of a classical piece of literature.

 

I'd also like to step in and ask that that the movie version of Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief be kept completely separate from the books by Rick Riordan. The books, which I've read, actually do very clever things with the Greek myths, and I suspect may help to get a new generation of kids interested in the original stories the author has used in his books. The film, which I've not seen, is supposed to be a dreadful adaptation, which has very little to do with the source material.

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yeah, everyone ( including the nephews who had to sit through the movie with a fulminating uncle, though I was as good as I could honesty be just screaming ARRRRRRRRRGGHHHHHHHHHH! the once and merely making despairing groans sotto voce the rest of the time ) who I have complained about that movie to, has said it had little at all to do with the novels, and they handled the whole idea much more decently.

 

Which also kind of undermines my initial point doesn't it. :/

 

hahahaha.

 

I will get Clueless out of the library I think, on your and Marks backing it.

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DESTROYER!

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=68239

Just like the comic and very well done.

 

 

Got helmet?

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=68201

YAY! Thor's helmet is awesome! Glad Loki's has the big curved horns. Notice the All-Father's helmet is sort of an combo of the two.

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Oh those helmets look really good. Thors one is absolutely classic. Thanks for the links mate.

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