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dogpoet

The worst Hellblazer story ever?

  

8 members have voted

  1. 1. Was It The Pub Where I Was Born?

    • Yes
      1
    • No, it was something else entirely. (Please name names...)
      7


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See, we've been over this time and again, Dog...but what exactly is so offensive about the plot of The Pub Where I Was Born?

I just found it a mediocre story shoe-horned in amongst better Ennis stories. I never hated it.

I don't see how there's anything quite so offensive in The Pub Where I Was Born as compared to John's sadly factual description of "Good Intentions".

I could add other stereotypical elements that cropped up in Azzarello's run also, but let's just focus on that one.

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Good intentions had Frusin. The Pub Where I was Born had one of the worst art jobs Will Simpson ever managed, during a period of Hellblazer most of which he spent drawing like somebody had reversed a bus over his hands.

 

(As for the plot, it's just generally half arsed, by numbers and limp.)

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Not really getting The Pub hate, ok the ending wasn't up to much but the preceeding issue and a half were pretty good!

 

It's been years since I read it. As I recall, nothing interesting happens. Asshole kills some people in their beloved pub, and ghostly REVENGE ensues. It's very phoned-in. Ultimately, it's the same as the dumbass plot as Soulstorm. Evil people do an evil things for no reason, and then the ghosts wreak their terrible revenge. *yawn*

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Yep.

Given that characterisation is easily Ennis' strongest hand as a writer, he obviously couldn't be arsed with this story, could he?

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Yeah, I'm going to have to stick with John McMahon on this one.

Dog seems to hate "The Pub..." so much because of the phoned in artwork as compared to Frusin.

Since it's been years since I've read that story, I don't remember the art.

But, the problem with the story seems to be that it wasn't creative.

This might be very true...but once again, mediocre and forgettable versus overtly offensive and just plain stupid.

"The Pub..." wasn't even the worst plot that Ennis came up with. There are a few other Ennis stories where characterization did not shine through, and even a few where the characterization was just piss-poor (Remarkable Lives).

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I reread it yesterday before posting - it's a two issue story with two different artists.

 

Will Simpson does a good job on the first part, His Kit in particular looks great. Actually looking at that whole issue again it's a bloody enjoyable little read - John down the pub with his mates and Kit, coming to terms with the loss of another friend and trying to figure out if he should put the moves on his dearly departed best mate's girl - the kind of thing Garth does so, so well.

 

Hoffman's art in the second issue is a considerable step down and does look horribly rushed in places but it's hardly offensive - the gore-heavy elements of the finale felt a tad gratuitous but John's ultimate solution to the problem's pretty good and turned the story back around, or so I thought anyway.

 

Edit : Just skimmed the second issue again, Constantine does look like Gollum in more than a few panels.

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But the whole first half of the story is dedicated to moving the John/Kit relationship forward!

And doesn't do a very good job of it, sadly.

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I realize that sometimes it can't be helped, but I always think using more than one artist on a story arc, whether 2 issues or more, is a huge continuity drawback, especially when you've gotten used to the art or like the artist.

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But the whole first half of the story is dedicated to moving the John/Kit relationship forward!

And doesn't do a very good job of it, sadly.

 

I don't know if he's changed, but Garth CLEARLY hadn't been part of a healthy relationship when he wrote that.

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I don't know if he's changed,

 

Look for your answer in the pages of Chronicles of Wormwood.

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But the whole first half of the story is dedicated to moving the John/Kit relationship forward!

And doesn't do a very good job of it, sadly.

 

I don't know if he's changed, but Garth CLEARLY hadn't been part of a healthy relationship when he wrote that.

He was in his late teens and hadn't long since dropped out of uni while he was writing that one: it's a fair bet you're right about that.

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I don't know if he's changed,

 

Look for your answer in the pages of Chronicles of Wormwood.

 

Be a dear and summarize?

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The protagonist has his great relationship go foul when she finds out that he fucks Joan of Arc on the regular and is also the Anti-Christ. as bad as that sounds the rag is actually pretty good, feels more like early Preacher.

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What was so bad about his portrayl of the John/Kit relationship ?!

He's assuming that the biggest shit in the DCU (as it was then) would skip a beat before fucking his dead mate's girl. WTF?

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What was so bad about his portrayl of the John/Kit relationship ?!

He's assuming that the biggest shit in the DCU (as it was then) would skip a beat before fucking his dead mate's girl. WTF?

 

I dunno, I think that Delano's previous 30-something issues established John's inherent humanity and decency. And Ennis then really emphasized his relationships with friends.

 

 

@Qusoor : as well-meaning as he is, Ennis has his struggles with contemporary feminism, evidenced by certain bits of Preacher, but he seems to acknowledge the douchiness of his protagonist in Chronicles of Wormwood, who has a few talky-talk conversations with the girlfriend he cheated in where he "sees the light" regarding the stuff he messed up. While he's still a bit of the same ole Ennis, some of the relationships conversations, and the way that subplot is developed, seems to show a slightly more mature Garf (at least in that regard, he'll still have a character called Fucknose, with a dick for a nose, running around). Bits of the dialog sometimes seem (to me at least) like the natural extension/evolution of the John/Kit dynamic, a well that Hellblazer couldn't go to, since J.C. can't be happy and in a functioning relationship, unlike the Antichrist.

 

 

 

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It's nothing special, but even with all the gore, the title has heart and (fuzzy feel-good, not we're-all-bastards-deep-down) humanity, unlike Crossed.

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What was so bad about his portrayl of the John/Kit relationship ?!

 

Kit wasn't a character. She was The Perfect Woman. Wicked pretty, never lost her head, fought better than John, could drink him under the table, and always with a snappy comeback. She really didn't have much personality, even in comparison to Garth's other very broadly drawn characters.

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And, she eventually got sick of John and left him.

If she was the "perfect woman" she would've continued to put up with any of John's foibles. Why? Because if she's the "perfect woman", that's her duty, to adapt to "her man".

I don't really see that about Kit at all.

I believe she had a temper. It's been a long time since I've read Ennis and details are lacking, but the way Ennis wrote Kit, I expect her to have a fiery temper and not really take any shite, making her somewhat of an impatient person, rather than the most understanding or caring of people (i.e. she's not the Mother archetype that a lot of authors want female characters to be).

Nor is she the Maiden.

She got sad after she went home, but there was no reason for her to be upset before that, as she was in a new relationship that seemed to be working fine.

I've known women like Kit. I could definitely believe in her as a real person.

Her emotions were much more natural than John's during most of Ennis' run.

Ennis' John was writ large.

Character elements were lacking...what sort of books did she read, did she like any TV shows, little elements that flesh out a being, but that's usually lacking from Hellblazer, and most comics in general, really.

You know, if you saw Kit sitting at home watching American Idol because she was really into that show, I think it'd add a different perspective.

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