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JohnMcMahon

Vertigo back on the ledge

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I also think it's massively overrated, but that's got very little to do with the price of fish.

 

Indeed. My feelings towards Fables are about as middling as it's possible to be. It's all competently written and illustrated and occasionally quite clever, but nothing about it moves me in the slightest and I have no idea why.

 

Same thing with Jack of Fables, although there I rather dislike the art.

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That's why I inserted the "relatively". As to the "key point that Vertigo are missing" - well, that's pretty much what we're discussing here, isn't it? The excessive, creatively-lazy milking of Sandman and its ready-made audience was a major criticism I'd have levelled at Vertigo a few years ago, but like James, I can't think of anything significant they've commissioned in the last 4-5 years which I'd describe in those terms.

Endless Nights, this God save The Queen Thing and (arguably, though I'd say it was doing Aria myself) Fables, aside. There may even be a whiff of the Sandman to Carey's current series and the comics version of Neverwhen, come to that.

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Indeed. My feelings towards Fables are about as middling as it's possible to be. It's all competently written and illustrated and occasionally quite clever, but nothing about it moves me in the slightest and I have no idea why.

 

Same thing with Jack of Fables, although there I rather dislike the art.

 

I was just thinking the same thing, I'm going through the motions and buying the trades because I'm one of those people who will buy most everything that comes out of Vertigo (i'll get God Save the Queen when it's a reduced pb), but I can go a year before i feel the need to get the latest trade. With say Y the Last Man or 100 Bullets I'm getting the books within a month of release.

 

I'm just not that bothered about fables especially since Willingham revealed who the adversary is, meh.

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Vertigo's current line is much richer and varied for them moving away from what seemed to be an interminable search for "the new Sandman" - ie the same old thing.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, but I'd have thought that would support the "Vertigo really should be steering clear of 'Sandman Presents'-type projects" argument, rather than opposing it, which your original post seemed to suggest you were doing.

 

I find it quite common that people on the internet argue with what they think they have read rather than what is actually there in front of them.

 

Because I didn't set out to argue that point rather to compare Vertigo Then with Vertigo Now.

"How can we do the new Sandman" has not been Vertigo's thing for a while.

Doing a one off book spun off from the Sandman is different from that.

 

Dogpoet when you say "Carey's current series" do you mean Crossing Midnight?

 

As for Neverwhere, he had to choose between avoiding accusations of Gaiman cashing in versus adapting a book that he liked. But it's only a Sandman thing because Neil Gaiman reused some of the concepts.

 

Which reminds me, fables is structurally much more like Sandman than Lucifer was.

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Endless Nights, this God save The Queen Thing and (arguably, though I'd say it was doing Aria myself) Fables, aside. There may even be a whiff of the Sandman to Carey's current series and the comics version of Neverwhen, come to that.

 

 

Endless Nights was an actual Sandman book, and as such deserves to be regarded separately from the interminable 'Sandman Presents' projects of yesteryear. God Save The Queen hasn't actually come out yet, so really doesn't count as "in the last 4-5 years" (besides which, the idea that it marks a return to unfortunate publishing trends from the past is already the explicit point of this discussion, so I didn't really think I needed to mention it again), and since we both seem to agree that Fables isn't actually an exercise in Sandman-milking at all, I don't see why you bothered to mention it.

 

I'd tentatively agree about Carey/Fabry's Neverwhere, although I'd question the significance of that one (it seems to have largely slipped beneath the radar of most readers/online commentators, largely because it was [a] a decade too late, and a bit poo), and I haven't read any of Crossing Midnight yet, so can't really comment on it. Nothing I've heard about it suggests that it would qualify as another raking-over of the Sandman coals, though.

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I haven't read any of Crossing Midnight yet, so can't really comment on it. Nothing I've heard about it suggests that it would qualify as another raking-over of the Sandman coals, though.

 

It has as much in common with Sandman as a Chinese Restaurant menu.

And after you've read one you immediately want another.

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(it certainly seems to have slipped beneath the radar of most readers/online commentators, largely because it was [a] a decade too late, and crap)

 

Crap's a bit harsh. It's not bad at all, just redundant.

 

Crossing Midnight isn't Sandman-like at all, except for the 'humans interacting with gods' element, but that's hardly Sandman-specific.

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Crap's a bit harsh. It's not bad at all, just redundant.

 

I edited my post slightly just before you responded, sorry. That said, I was thoroughly underwhelmed by the two issues of the series I read - the pacing was very choppy, and the art didn't work for me at all (the goth-tastic depiction of Door struck me as particularly ill-conceived).

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The character designs were awful, but the art in general was great (though not up to the standards of Fabry's inks in some other books). I've read it as a trade rather than singles, so I don't know if that would have affected my opinion of it.

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Okay, Crossing Midnight only bears resemblance on account of being a contemporary urban fantasy comic using myth figures, that was a cheap shot.

Lady Constantine might be considered germane and that was definitely in the last four or five years.

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Nope, not really. That was probably commissioned just about five years ago but does not really fit any of the Vertigo spin-off tropes most complaints are about.

 

ie it's rip-roaring adventure yarn - more of a Hellblazer spin-off even if the origins were in Sandman.

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Of course, none of this takes away from the point which no-one except dogpoet seems to be trying to contest, which is that Vertigo really haven't been milking the Sandman cow to any great degree for a good while now. I'm sure they've put out at least one or two books in that vein which I can't remember right now, but they've been massively outnumbered, and overshadowed, by the vast majority of their output which, whatever else can be said of it (and I can think of some pretty harsh things to say about a lot of the last few years' worth of Vertigo books, although there have been some major high points, and there seems to have been something of an improvement lately), hasn't featured much in the way of faeries, lesbian witches, or brooding gothy romanticism.

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Nope, not really. That was probably commissioned just about five years ago but does not really fit any of the Vertigo spin-off tropes most complaints are about.

 

ie it's rip-roaring adventure yarn - more of a Hellblazer spin-off even if the origins were in Sandman.

Bleah.

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I'm sure they've put out at least one or two books in that vein which I can't remember right now

 

There were a couple of Thessaly minis based on the character of Morpheus's bespectacled ex from the Game of You arc, but other than that, I don't think there's been anything else of note.

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Yes, let's not immediately put every Fantasy series Vertigo publishes under the "They're copying Sandman" banner.

 

I don't know why everyone gets in an up-roar everytime Vertigo publishes a Sandman-related spin-off project.

This is just a one-shot graphic novel, not an on-going series.

And the majority of Vertigo's current line is made up of creator owned, individual-universe series.

I don't mind taking a trip back to revisit Sandman characters every once in a while, if the series is well written.

Vertigo's much better than they were a few years back, when it seemed like there were no ideas at all coming from Vertigo (even if the current output from Vertigo isn't exactly groundbreaking).

 

And besides, if Veritgo didn't put such heavy reliance on the Sandman franchise, we never would have seen Lucifer!

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Gracefully accepted defeat, Dogboy.

 

Have a video:

 

Meanwhile, for the open-minded:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=110083

Thanks, Adrian, but I don't think the fact that it's a ripping yarn rather than something more sedate alters the fact that it sets her up for her first appearance in Men Of Good Fortune. It's still a Sandman spin off at heart.

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But it wasn't marketed as such. Which is the whole point.

 

Just back down. You were wrong. There's no shame in it.

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But it wasn't marketed as such. Which is the whole point.

 

Just back down. You were wrong. There's no shame in it.

I was thinking more of the content, but fair enough. I was forgetting it went out with Hellblazer rather than Sandman on the cover.

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starting reading scalped.... not too bad although i don't see the direction being a great mystery... and i started collecting 100 bullets in trades which is a series is bit like lost... i really dont car for new characters 75 issues into a series.... but then again it is a comic book.... loveless has started its sputter in thicker than blackwater... y is finishing up... fables and jack are rocking again with new storyline featuring the frog prince... ummm and thats about it... ohhh dmz is quite interesting i enjoy that and look froward to reading it... i like the five part story arcs it suits the series well...

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I read the first couple of issues and it did seem very good indeed. Definitely one of the best comics to come out of Vertigo for a while. Probably more of a trade book than a monthly one, though.

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CBR has coverage of all the Vertigo news from the NYC con including this rather depressing snippet....

 

"Greatest Hits" by David Tischman and Glenn Fabry is a new superhero book, but with a "vertigo twist." "Greatest Hits" posits that in the real world, superheroes would be more like rock stars. It tells the story of a director who's making a documentary about the greatest superhero team of all time, a Beatles-like team called The Mates. The covers are all inspired by different rock albums.

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